Toddler/Preschool Moms week of April 23

[NMG]

Hi everyone! We've been so incredibly busy at home and it looks like our weekends for the summer are starting to fill up already :( Tesa is going to be a flower girl in my friends wedding and Sat while we were at the mall she kept telling everyone! It was really cute to see her so excited about being in the wedding and then letting us all know she's going to wear a flower in her hair :D I'm thinking Tesa's getting over her only wanting "naked chicken" or snacks. She did try some Beef, Barley and veggie soup yesterday - she then looked at me with a huge grin and says see momma I tried the soup. That's all she ate of it, but just last week we couldn't get her to even try anything on her plate unless it was plain old chicken - no breading, no herbs, nothing - just naked :p Kim - I think that's great that Lainey's trying out new veggies!
Mrs. Reber - Have you tried ants on a log with Casey (celery with peanut butter and raisons)?? Out of all the veggies, Tesa loves celery, exp with peanut butter and raisons, although she does like it with cream cheese or dipped in ranch.
Lori - Hope things work out in the job department! Our company's moving Aug 1st, so I've been searching for a new job - the new place is way too far for me to drive right now.
Joanne - that's so cute about Caitlyn an her "boyfriend" and running back into the house to get all dolled up!!!
Cheryl - Happy Belated Birthday!!! SOunds like Garretts teacher is a big pain - at least the school year is almost over. How did Griffins surgery go?? I hope everything went well.

[JoanneOR]

Hi Natalie. That's fun how excited Tesa is to be a flowergirl. She'll be so cute. At least Tesa's getting some protein with her "naked chicken." Caitlyn is actually a pretty good eater - she'll try most everything. It's my third son, Colin, who is horrible. Last night I realized that all he had eaten yesterday was three sets of waffles with "chocolate butter" (Nutella). That was his breakfast, he asked for it for lunch and we all kind of ate a different dinner last night because I took the kids to a party and DH stayed home and worked in the basement. Silly me thought they would have food at the party, but they didn't, and the kids were starving when we got home, and I didn't have anything planned for dinner. So, more waffles for Colin!

The party we went to was for my niece's son. Very long story, but her parents (the dad is DH's brother) are divorced. We don't hear from them unless it is Christmas (niece stops by for about a half hour to collect son's presents) or son's birthday (they invite us to his party). We did try to keep in touch because they are still our kid's aunt and cousin and we didn't want to take that away just because they got divorced. DH refused to go the party, but I felt bad, so I took the kids. Well, it was really awkward. They really don't make any effort to talk to you or make you feel welcome - it's kind of like, drop your present here and whatever. Don't introduce you to anyone else there. I felt very uncomfortable, and frankly, used. Maybe they aren't consciously inviting us to get a present, but that's certainly how it comes across. We won't be going again. Sorry for the vent! Just had to get that off my chest!

We had an OK weekend. DH started on the basement stairs and hopefully will finish today. We went to the party yesterday :( . Saturday we sat out with the neighbors and the kids played. Low key, but fun. Everyone's going crazy with baseball games and practices, but this year none of the boys wanted to do it, so we're a bit less frenzied than normal this time of year.

Friday all the kids started their gymnastics class. The boys are all in the same class. Caitlyn loved it. It was so funny. DH put her in a little tutu outfit. She looked so cute, except her underwear was hanging out the sides. :confused: Are they supposed to wear underwear with them? DH said he asked the other moms there and they said yes. I'm imagining DH talking with the moms about their girls gymnastics outfits and their underwear. :o

Caitlyn is reverting somewhat in her sleeping. Friday night was just horrible. She was in hysterics. DH and I were downstairs and she kept crying and screaming for different things. We yelled up to her to go to sleep. When she realized we weren't coming down, she came downstairs. I don't think I've ever seen her so upset. She was just about hyperventilating. She scared me because of her heart. Even though it's fine to let her cry, she was just going crazy. So I finally did give in and went back up with her and found the chick she was in hysterics about. She asked for a couple other things and I wound up giving in because she scared me. Saturday night she went to sleep OK, but both DH and I were up with her once. Last night was better, but she was up at 5:00.

Hope everyone had a good weekend!

[MrsReber]

Joanne, yes the underwear hangs out the sides! Casey has that same problem at gymnastics. She got 2 other outfits, though, both with little skirts on them (kind of like dance outfits?) and the skirts hide the underwear.

I'd try the ants on a log, but, well, Casey doesn't like peanut butter all that much, either. My weird kid. She likes seafood, which I hate. She'll eat whole clams on the grill and shrimp with nothing on it at all (won't even dip it). I have to wait for DH to cook seafood, though, because I don't like it. Besides, I'm not so sure she should eat that much of it. She eats the kids favorites- cheeseburgers, chicken nuggets, pizza, and macaroni and cheese. But NO vegetables.

Well, I haven't been posting much because everything that could go wrong has been going wrong. Did the soil sample so we could get oil tank insurance. Our oil tank is leaking. We found out 3 weeks ago and we're still waiting for the township to get the permit in order so the tank can be removed. We have no idea how bad the damage is until the tank is removed. And, we can't think of selling the house until we know the extent of the problem. Got a new oil tank (a bargain at $1400 :eek: !! Then we had to fill it!) Had to argue with the township to let us fill the tank prior to their inspection (only took them 7 days to get out here, meanwhile, it was 30 degrees at night) I had to threaten them after 3 days so they'd let us fill the tank and have some heat. Then they failed the new tank (couldnt' get in the house- maybe they should've come when someone was home??) Yesterday, our dryer broke. NOt good. I have about 2 loads of laundry waiting to be done and we're so short on money from this oil fiasco. I just want to sell this house! It's like we can't get out of here. Oh, and there is water in the basement by our washer- after we paid a ton of money to have the basement waterproofed last month! I'll be calling them back.

So I am trying to figure out what I need to do. I'm going to register Casey here and in VA. Then I'm going to have to change daycares. Our Goddard that I LOVE has before and after school care, but they can't bus to our local kindergarten. Can't have DH bringing the kids to 2 different places each morning so I have to figure out where to send them OR I have to find a daycare that has kindergarten and has a spot for both kids. I'm finding that before and afterschool care will be just as expensive as full day daycare. So I'm in limbo.

I am focusing on the kids birthday parties, though. That's fun for me and it keeps my mind occupied with good things. Hate to just come here and vent or gripe about things. I know it could be worse. It's just that my dream was within my grasp and now everything is on hold. It's not too bad having to wait, but there are so many factors to this, including my job, which I really hate. And it just keeps getting worse. I don't know if I can work there for another year if we're stuck doing a major cleanup. I was so depressed for about a week. So was DH. Now we're just focused on doing what we have to do to get out of here. Maybe our plan will still work, but we need an alternate plan in case it doesn't.

Big sigh. But we'll get through it. Thanks for listening. I've been following along on this thread, but haven't posted much. Hopefully the tank will be removed from the ground this week. I know the permit was approved because I called the township about it last week. It's all about the money with all these folks. Corrupt townships, officials taking bribes and getting arrested. I can barely read the news anymore with all the corruption in this state.

Okay, enough griping. That's all I'll allow myself to post here!

Hope everyone is doing well. Joanne, that's terrible about the party you went to. It seems like you're the only one making an effort. Divorce affects so many people. My sister is going through a divorce now. Just got legally separated. I'm so sad about it because it affects things on so many levels, especially with the kids (cousins, etc.) My kids aren't going to understand at all.

Well, I better run! Have to get back to work!

[JoanneOR]

Susan, so sorry to hear about all the setbacks. I had thought maybe something was going on because of things you had referenced in other threads, and was going to PM you. I hope you can get it all straightened out soon. What a pain. Do you have a guarantee for the basement? Hang in there. We've gone through lots of times where everything that could go wrong, did. I know it's tough. How far apart is the daycare and kindergarten? Maybe your DH could do the two drop offs, if it won't be for too long, so the kids can stay at Goddard? And, don't worry about venting or griping, I've done it plenty!

Actually Caitlyn's outfit did have a little skirt; except it was so small on her it just kind of stuck out around her belly. :p She gets lots of hand me downs from my niece - I have to go through her clothes and see if we have a bigger one before the next class.

[tbb113]

Susan - does your elementary school have on-site daycare? If so, I would put Casey there and keep Branden at Goddard. There has only been a couple of years in my whole life where the boys were in the same place (when Alex was in K - 2 grade and again next year). Other than that they have been at two different schools and/or day cares. They even go to different summer camps because of different interests. It is possible (but not convenient) to be at two different locations. The other advantage of on-site day care for Kindergarten is that HOPEFULLY it will be open when the school is closed for 'teacher in-service, holidays, etc'

Sorry to hear about the issues with your oil tank and basement. What a PITA.

[MrsReber]

The problem with the daycares is timing. DH is supposed to be at work at 7:30. He gets there at 8:00 when he drops the kids off since daycare opens at 7:00 and the teachers aren't all in until 7:30. He gets to work around 8:00 and some people have complained- even though he works later to make up the time. I leave at 5:00am for work and catch a 4:00 train in order to pick up (takes me over an hour one way). If the train is late, I have to rush to Goddard because they close at 6:00. If the other place also closes at 6:00, we'd have a problem. We also thought about taking Brenden back to the facility where DH works, but they close at 5:00 and if DH has overtime, he'd have to come home and then drive back to work (not good with current gas prices!) I'm not doing anything until this tank is removed and we see where things stand. We can register Casey whenever we need to - they have to take her at the public schools here and in VA. We may be taking a family trip to VA next month. If we're there on a weekday, I want to stop in the elementary school and talk to them about registration.

There's ONE daycare that buses to the kindergarten. It's not my favorite place. Maybe I'm just spoiled by Goddard. There's no on-site care. She'd have to be bused, which I'm not thrilled with. On Mondays and Fridays, she wouldn't need before/after school care and she'd have to know not to get on the bus after school. The school that she'd go to was recently in the news. One of the teachers was duct taping kids to their chairs because she couldn't control them! That's most likely due to the ever increasing class sizes (around 25, I believe) Also, I know 2 other moms whose kids went to Goddard. They said their kids were bored at this kindergarten.

Kindergarten starts after 8:30, so DH can't drop off. It only goes till 11:00! What kind of half day is that? I don't think Casey will get much out of it. She already knows how to read, write and do some math. I'll register her there, but I'm still going to see if I can find a private full day facility that we can afford. It's just that then she'll be there all day on Monday and I'll be working from home with just Brenden. That will be a challenge. They play together most of the day.

I'm so torn up about all of this and I'm kicking myself for not getting the tank checked out when we talked about it a year or so ago. But we can't go back, we just have to move forward. The one great thing that came out of this is that I KNOW I'm ready to get out of here. I really want to live somewhere else have have a better family life- even if it means giving up my "career" and my big paycheck. I'm tired of running myself into the ground just to pay the bills. Once the merger goes through, the work will pick up and working from home will be a thing of the past. Exelon expect employees to travel at the drop of a hat. I've seen it all in action already with my co-workers. They're not happy. I don't want to be stuck in a job because I need a paycheck.

Well, back to my desk tomorrow. They let our temp go due to him falling asleep at work all the time. Unfortunately, there's no replacement so I'm getting half of the work that he was doing and a co-worker is getting the other half.

Sorry sorry sorry! I'm griping again!! Thanks for listening. I really appreciate it and I appreciate all the advice. We'll get through it all somehow. Like DH tells me, the house is there, we may not get there exactly when we planned, but the overall plan is not changing.

Joanne, Brenden and Casey LOVE waffles. They eat them frozen most of the time! They explained to my mom that they like chocolate chip waffles frozen because the chips are messy to eat when they melt. I buy tons of waffles, all varieties, anything on sale.

By the way, does anyone have an Aldi store by them? They built one down the road and I decided to stop there and check it out. I got some really good buys. Never heard of the store before.

[tbb113]

Susan - that is a little short but still a normal 1/2 day kindergarten schedule. Here is our schedule (they do two K sessions a day)

Kindergarten

8:15 A.M. Early Session Begins

11:35 A.M. Early Session Ends

11:40 A.M. Late Session Begins

3:00 P.M. Late Session Ends

I agree that it will be a pain and I hope that you find a solution that works for you.

[HRJ]

Susan, sorry to hear about all the problems. :( I can't imagine how frustrating this all is. I remember when we removed our oil tank back in NJ, it was such a hassle -- and that wasn't an emergency situation or anything, we were just converting from oil to gas, and needed to get the empty tank off our property, and even that was a PITA.

Joanne, sorry you ended up at that awful party. At least you made the effort to attend, and you can feel like you tried to make the relationship work. Glad the kids like gymnastics -- Caitlyn must look adorable in her tutu, underwear or not.

Natalie, sounds like Tessa will have fun being a flower girl!

Had a very stressful and frustrating day. Today was Victor's first swim lesson at the Y -- some of you may recall that the reason we signed up for swim lessons at this particular place was because they offered a class that was supposed to be for "timid" swimmers (even though other pools around here offer preschool lessons for much less money).

Anyway, get there today. Victor was apprehensive, but willing to give it a try, which is the best we can expect from him. The teacher introduces herself; has the four kids in the class line up along the side of the big pool. This surprised me, because the class was listed in the brochure as taking place in the smaller, zero-entry pool. (The kids were all wearing swimming "bubbles" around their waists.) Then, the teacher gets in the pool, and tells the kids to jump in, which the other three kids do. Victor, of course, does not -- he starts to cry. So the teacher reaches over, takes hold of him and pulls him into the pool with her. :eek: At this point, he becomes absolutely panicked, hysterical, totally filled with fear.

I was watching from the side of the pool (along with the other parents), and come sprinting over. Needless to say, this is *not* what I had in mind for the "timid swimmers" class. The teacher, who is still holding Victor in the water, tells me that I should leave the pool area entirely -- "as soon as you go, he'll stop crying," she says. Uh, no. This kid is clearly terrified. I know my child, and I know this is something that is now going to take him a long time to get over. And the other kids are clearly *not* afraid of the water, and seem to be quite accomplished swimmers for 4-year-olds.

I told the teacher to get him out of the pool, and asked, "What kind of an approach is this for a 'timid swimmers' class?" Oh, says the teacher -- no, this class isn't especially for timid swimmers anymore; the Y has recently "revamped" some of the preschool swimming classes; "most of our families with kids in the swimming program are aware of that." (So if you're new to the program, like we are, you're sh*t out of luck, huh?) Then how come the class is listed in the spring 06 course catalog as "for the child who is timid in the water? "Gee, I guess maybe we should think about changing that at some point in the future." Don't even get me started. At that point, I was so mad, I could spit.

Long story short, they moved Victor into a lower-level class that's taught in the zero-entry pool, but not until I had given both the teacher and the aquatics director (who looked like he was about 15 years old :rolleyes: ) a piece of my mind.

Considering everything that happened, Victor did amazingly well once he got to the proper class -- there was still some crying, but he calmed down quicker than I thought he would. I started out standing right by the side of the pool and then gradually moved back to the benches along the side, and he was OK with that. I'm just hoping that next week, he doesn't completely freeze up when faced with the prospect of going to the pool again. I think we'll have to make an effort to go to family swim sometime over the weekend.

But I'm so annoyed, because getting Victor comfortable in the water is something that's important to DH and me, and we tried so hard to orchestrate a positive experience for him this time. I know the nature of life is to be unpredictable, but this whole episode was so entirely unnecessary, if the Y had only bothered to advertise their classes properly. (And, again, we're paying $$$$ for these classes). I think after Victor is properly settled in his new class, I will write a letter to the Y director and board about this experience.

Anyway, I kind of feel bad venting about this, compared to the issues Susan is dealing with right now, for instance.

Helene

[MrsReber]

Helene, I'm so sorry to hear about what happened to Victor! Believe me, I'd vent, too. At least our oil tank problem can be solved. Once you instill fear in a child like that, it can be hard to reverse. I hope Victor does okay next time. I'd be furious, too! Like you'd just walk away with him screaming in the pool? I hope it all works out okay. Casey was scared of the water until we got her a pair of swimmies. She won't go near the water without them. It took a lot of convincing to get her to try to stand in my brother's pool at the 3 ft. end. Brenden, on the other hand, is terrified. We don't force him and he'll only go in if I carry him. It's a tough issue. You want them to know how to swim and what to do, but you don't want to scare them to death by putting them in the water when they don't want to go in!

[dearamy]

Admittedly, I am pms-ing here, but Helene, I started to cry reading about that first swimming class. I just know how I would feel if a stranger pulled my crying child into the water--and then telling me to go away :mad: I am so happy to hear that things improved in the second class. I am very impressed with Victor being able to turn it around like that.

Susan--Sorry you have so much going on at once. I so know that feeling of everything going wrong when you just can't take one more thing. I am really nervous about our potential move too. It seems like things just get so stirred up. But, eventually you will be there & the stress of the move will be a hazy memory.

Joanne--That is very thoughtful of you to try to keep up the relationship with the cousins for the kids sake. To echo what Susan said, divorce really is so far reaching. I don't think it's a bad idea to stop going to the parties if you're not made to feel welcome. Maybe you can keep up the relationship with the kids another way. That's such a sweet image of your DH chatting with the moms about Caitlyn's underwear in her gymnastics outfit.

Natalie--You'll have to post a picture of Tesa as a flower girl. I would be slightly terrified if Lila was asked to be a flower girl. I would be sure to manage the expectations of the bride & groom!

So, we are up to absolutely nothing today. We are back to gloom & doom weather here & I am kind of in a funk. Lila is being a good sport. We played play-dough, water colored & she watched quite a bit of t.v. today :o I have been home searching in Austin. I am really excited for our trip this weekend, but so completely overwhelmed with the thought of moving.

We went to the gocery store this afternoon & I gave Lila a box of Annie's Bunny Grams while she was in the cart. Back in the car, she insisted on holding onto the box & snacking on the way. Due to my funk, I had no interest in a tantrum, so fine, I let her have them. We're almost home when she starts screaming "Help Me! Help me!" I looked back & she had spilled the whole box (of course) all over herself & the backseat. I tell her it's o.k. that we'll pick them up when we get home, but she is just wailing "Help me! My car yucky!!" Too funny :D

[NMG]

Helene - that's so awful how that woman handled getting Victor into the pool and then telling you to leave - would be furious :mad: I am glad however that Victor was brave enough to try out the other class - hopefully Victor will forget about the other experiance and enjoy his new class.
MrsReber - is there anyone that is certified that watches children out of there home in your area??? My kids go to a woman who is certified thru the state for child care and preschool and kids get bused from her house before and after school as well. They are usually cheaper than a regular day care center and usually only make you pay for the days your kids will be there. I hope you get your tank issue settled soon so you can relax just a bit. BTW - which one of you're kids b-day is coming up??
Joanne - too cute about Caitlyn and her tutu :D I've been thinking of signing Tesa up for a dance or gymnastics class next spring (she'll be 3-1/2 by then). I was in gymnastics when I was little and remember always wearing underwear with my leotards. I would feel the same way about the party issue as you do - it does sound like you and the kids are just invited for a present since they don't make any effort to talk/introduce you to anyone.
Amy - I will def post a pic of Tesa as a flower girl - the wedding's in October, but we'll be trying on dresses soon enough - plus she's goign ot be a flower girl next summer in my brothers wedding and Mikey's going to be the ring bearer!!
I guess I better get back to working!

[LA98]

Helene, what an absolutely awful experience! I felt terrible just reading it. Poor Victor. And the comment about "maybe we should change the description of the class" would have made me crazy! I would definitely elevate your concerns to someone who's not 15. :rolleyes: We get a brochure from the local Y and I've eyed the beginner classes, I would be furious to find out it wasn't as described (especially at those prices!).

Natalie, can't wait to see pictures of your little flower girl! My friend's two girls are in a wedding next week, they're 2 and 1. I saw their dresses the other day and they're going to look just beautiful.

Susan, I feel for you on the daycare timing situation. Sometimes I try to figure out what we'll do when the time comes, even though it's years away. It's not easy. Sorry to hear about the tank too, I know that's a major pain. I think I've missed some of the history about why you're staying on at your job, I assume it's to get the severance package? If all else falls into place though, would you still stay? Or would it be better to just make a clean break and move on when the houses are ready? I can't believe how long you've been dealing with that work situation, I only had to deal with the looming layoff for one month and it was horrible...

Speaking of (sort of, I guess!), I am officially employed as of tomorrow! I got the job offer I was expecting on Friday. It's less money than I was making, but they're giving me the 3 weeks vacation I had earned at the last place, which is huge because they only offer *2 days* the first year! Two days, wouldn't that be considered slave labor? Anyway, it's also a slightly longer day at school for Brian, which I'm not happy about of course, but at least the new job is still only a couple of minutes away from his school. It's actually right around the corner from the old job. I just hope I like it and can learn everything quickly.

Joanne, sorry to hear about Caitlyn's sleep again! We were doing fairly well until this past weekend: DH went to a car show thing in Pennsylvania, he goes every year. I figured Brian would be asking a million times, Where's Daddy? but that everything would be fine. He did ask a bunch of times, we spoke to him on the phone, he seemed okay with it all. But Friday night, he woke up with a night terror, then when he was finally fully awake, he started screaming for Daddy. Uh-oh. That went on for over an hour. Saturday night, same exact thing. DH talked to him on the phone, and was able to soothe him a bit. Sunday morning he's home, I figured everything would be back to normal. Nope, Sunday night same thing, only DH was there and he calmed down very quickly. Geez, we've traumatized the child! I didn't see this one coming at all. Ack.

Lori

[hrk]

Hi all,
Just wanted to pop in and say a quick hello. I ahve been lurking but haven't had much time to post.

Susan- I am so sorry to hear that all these problems are coming up right before trying to sell your home. I hope they are resolved without too much more hassle. And good luck with the daycare issue. I know we will ahve the same issues once Logan hits kindergarden.

Lori- Congrats on the job offer. I am sure keeping those precious days of vacation is a nice consolation for less money.

Helene- Logan has been taking swim lessons for almost two years now and I have never seen anything like what Victor experienced. How absolutely terrible for both him and you. I hope they get things straightened out and Victor does well in his new class.

Joanne- Sorry to hear Caitlyn's not sleeping well these days. I often ask DH when it is that we learn to appreciate sleeping instead of fighting it.

Well things here are going well. My whole family is gone but DH is working from home now cause I still can't lift heavy things (like Logan) and I still am limited in the driving I can do. But Ari is doing very well, putting on weight and BF well after some inital issues so that makes things much easier.
Logan is doing great and seems to love being a big brother. He helps out with Ari, loves to sing to him at night before he goes to bed and comfort Ari when he is fussing. I could only hope they remember this love when they are fighting over toys ;)
We have conferences at Logans school the end of this week and we have been working with his daycare and teachers to continue to challenge him as he has far outpaced the guidelines in the class right now. I have to give great kudos to the teachers and administration at our Goddard school, they have been working very hard to meet Logans needs and Logan is really thriving.
Well just wanted to say a quick hello. I am off to take a shower while Ari is asleep in his swing.
Heather

[Sarah428]

Heather - Good to hear that overall things are going well. That's wonderful that Logan's school & teachers are so responsive to his level and keeping him challenged.

Lori - Congrats on the job and I'm sure you'll catch on quickly!

Natalie - When is Tesa bday? Ella will be 3 1/2 next spring too. When is the wedding that she'll be a flower girl in? I was too nervous to have my neices as flower girls (as were they) so they wore special dresses and were seated right before the mothers so they felt special.

Amy - How the Austin house hunting going? Doesn't it seem like we all have lots going on right now!?!?

Helene - Again, what a horrible experience! I would definately write a letter to the Y and especially the board about what happened, no way should something like that occur w/o being looked into. Glad that Victor bounced back in the other class.

Susan - Oh my :eek:, you have a lot on your plate right now! Don't kick yourself about not checking the tank last year...soon it will all be over & you may even be able to laugh about it :o. Hope you find a school schedule that works for everyone, oh the joys of being a working parent.

Joanne - Will you please tell Caitlyn to stop making plans w/ Ella to be up all night?! ;) After a few good nights Ella woke up numerous times and wanted everything from socks, to toast, to her easter basket. It's getting better thought, TG! And how cute about the leotard & her underware, I know just what you are describing.

We spent the entire weekend getting our house put back together and DH & I are finally back into our bedroom instead of sleeping in the basement. Ella loves her big girl bed, sleeps great at nap time but not so wonderful at night. Not sure why but it takes about an hour to settle in but could also be the time change and being light out still.

Only 6 weeks until the baby and my mind is starting to spin...what was I thinking!?!? The baby's room is almost done but the little things that need to be done just add up so quickly.

Happy Tuesday!
Sarah

ETA: My sister is throwing a big sister shower for a 3 year old (co-workers daughter) and needs some gift ideas. I gave her some but thought I'd ask you as well, any ideas?!?

[LaraW]

Sarah, what about the Joanna Cole "I'm a Big Sister" book? I think that book is great, and Natalie loved it. I gave the Big Brother version to a friend's son for his birthday. He really likes it too. Glad you're settled back in at home.

Natalie, that is so cute about Tesa being a flower girl. One if my sisters is getting married this fall, and I'm a bit terrified they want our Natalie to be a flower girl. I don't think I"d really go for it, but it would really be hard to explain why.

Helene, I just about cried reading your post about the swimming lessons. I would be furious. Like you're going to leave your kid screaming. :rolleyes: I actually have the opposite problem at the pool, where Natalie can't wait to get into the water, and I have to worry about her just running out of the locker room and jumping in before I can get there. I actually stopped taking her to the pool when I was pregnant just because I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to keep up.

Amy, sorry to hear about the weather! Good luck on your trip this weekend. I hope it goes well for you.

Susan, you really have a lot on your plate right now. Hope everything goes smoothly.

Lori, congratulations on the new job! That is great! :)

Sorry to hear about the sleep issues everyone is having. We're right there with you, kind of. Natalie was complaining about her ear hurting on Sunday, and so I took her in to the doctor yesterday. We were there for a long time because they had to remove some wax, and it didn't want to come out. Sure enough, she had some redness in her ear, and so we got started on amoxicillin yesterday. She's getting her 2 1/2 year molars too, and so we've been dosing her with Tylenol at nap and bedtimes, and that has seemed to help.

We had a pretty good weekend. THe weather was pretty nice, and so we were able to play outside and I got a little bit of yard work done. I start back to work officially next week. I'm a little sad about that. I've enjoyed my schedule these last few months of "work when you want" and I've certainly enjoyed only working about 4 hours a week. Oh well - I guess its back to reality :p

Yesterday and today have been SO cold! In fact, we got probably about 1/2 inch of snow last night.

Colin was up at 3:30 yesterday morining, and just would NOT go back to sleep. He finally did around 5:00, and then Natalie was up at 5:15. I was exhausted yesterday, and was in bed before 8 pm last night. I feel a lot better today, even though I've been up since 4:30 am. :rolleyes: I think it will be another early night for me. Yesterday I was so tired my whole body ached. It didn't help that it was gray and rainy all day and that just contributed to my sleepy feeling.

[MrsReber]

On top of everything else, did I mention our dryer broke on Sunday? Doesn't get hot anymore. DH took it apart and then said "well, I really don't have a clue." So there are clothes hanging all over the house. There's no avoiding laundry with DH and 2 kids.

Both the kids birthdays are coming up! Casey is first. She'll be FIVE on May 16th. Then Brenden will be 4 on July 5th. I love planning their parties. I give them a voice in every aspect of the planning (of course, I steer them toward lower cost items!). Casey wants a pinata. She asks each year so I guess it's only fair to give in this time. Her last party was at Barnes & Noble- not a good place for a pinata. The year before, she was SUPPOSED to have one, but the party place royally screwed everything up. They ignored my nasty letter and request for a refund. I talked other parents out of having parties at the same place, at least.

Brenden's party will be at Barnes & Noble. He wants a "truck party." Construction vehicles. Casey is having a Doggie Party. I told her I really liked that idea since it wasn't a boy or girl type thing. She agreed. I have to say I was really surprised that she didn't go for the Disney Princesses or something really girly.

To answer the question, in the beginning, I was staying at my job to see if there was any potention for a severance package. Now that literally hundreds of people have left the company (and more will follow in the next month due to changes in retirement benefits) there is little to no chance of me getting any package at all. We decided earlier this year that it'd be best to just go. We had planned on having the house up for sale by April. I went ahead and did some inspections (the ones we'd be responsible for) so that we'd have all the paperwork done and the closing could go quickly. That's when we found out about the oil leak. Not fun.

Heather, our Goddard is wonderful. I am really in awe of how well run the school is and how both my kids thrive there. Casey takes things one step further at home. She loves to do the kindergarten level workbooks. I'm tempted to get her a first grade level one as she's been zipping right through the pages of the kindergarten one. It's a bit frustrating, though. Do I let her go ahead as much as she wants and then risk her being bored later? I don't want to slow down her learning since she is so into it. I hope this keeps up. She amazes me each day with the things she has learned. I have to give Goddard most of the credit for that.

Glad to hear that Ari is doing well, too! I just love babies! Too bad DH doesn't love them as much as I do :D ! Sounds like your boys will be very close, indeed. My kids fight, but they play together most of the time. They're extremely close. They already told me that they'll miss each other when Casey starts kindergarten. The thing with keeping them at the same daycare facility is that they get to see each other during the day. They tell me they would miss that.

[paula]

Looking for opinions...

I have begun to search for daycare in PA (although they aren't going anywhere unless I have a job), and I was surprised to find only a handful of NAEYC accredited programs. Moreover, over half of those are only part-day programs, whereas I will need full day (9hr) coverage. Does anyone want to chime in on the value of NAEYC accreditation? We currently use an accredited school, and I was planning to continue to use an accredited school, but I am not sure that is going to be possible given all of our other limitations on school selection. Susan and Heather have spoken highly of their experiences with Goddard, but not all Goddards are accredited (including the one near where I currently work and the one in our new neighborhood). One of our possibilities is a brand new Bright Horizons which is scheduled to open in June. They plan to file for accreditation as soon as they can (NAEYC requires a facility to be open for at least one year before applying). I guess I am weighing through what accreditation means and how valuable it is.

Paula

[RunnerKim]

Helene - That is amazingly unacceptable! I too would have been shocked and pissed. I'm glad that Victor was able to participate in the other class after that! I have never seen a teacher pull/force a kid in to the water and I seriously doubt they'd still be working if they'd told a parent to leave the pool area. That teacher clearly has limited experience working with kids that age.

susan - arghhhhh. Our dryer broke not that long ago too. Of course at a time when Lainey was having an unusal amount of accidents during nap time too. Hang in there.

We had a pinata at Lainey's birthday party - actually the other family provided it (we did a joint party). If possible, I'd suggest getting a pinata that is not an animal. Some kids (granted this party was a couple years younger) had some problems with whacking a donkey and breaking it's neck.

Heather - I think I missed Ari's birth announcement so will go back to look for it. Congratulations!!! Sounds like you all are off to a good start. Glad you could check in. Take care of yourself.

Sarah - "I'm a big sister book" is wonderul. Doll versions of things used for a baby are great too. Lainey has never been very in to her doll but she played with him a lot after Jamie was born. I gave her one of the bottles to use too so it was the exact same as what Jamie was getting. Newborn diapers. Lainey also loves to wear the sling we have and will try to put her stuffed animal in it. She received non-big sister gifts too that were huge hits: memory game cards and funky sunglasses pop to mind. We added to her "Who loves baby?" book a picture of her baby brother (and she helped make a book for Jamie). My grandmother sent her a book that conveniently arrived at our house the day Jamie was born. So when DH went home to get her and bring her to the hospital, he also brought the book and Lainey and I read that together. The book wasn't about babies or being a big sibling.

Lori - congratulations! That has to be a huge relief.

Lara- hang in there. Wish I could send you a few hours of sleep.

Natalie - Can't wait to see a photo of Tesa! I'm like Amy though and a bit terrified of the thought. BIL asked DH about Lainey being a flower girl in their August wedding (she'll be almost 4 then) and I wrote them an email telling them all the possibilities for how I thought she could behave that day. DH is the best man so it could go very well - she could walk right on down the aisle. She does do it every week for communion. But I also thought it just as likely that she'd completely balk; knowing how shy she can be in a new situation. Our kids are the only kids on either side of the family from what I understand and they'll get a lot of attention because of that. I wanted the bride to not feel obligated to ask and that its okay to retain center-of-attention status for her day (although I didn't phrase it that way). I never heard back whether they want her to do it or not so I'm assuming not; which is fine with me.

Joanne - I'm sorry that Caitlyn scared you like that. I can only imagine!

We had a fun weekend. Took Lainey to her first gym class on Saturday. She told me she wasn't going to be shy but I told her it was okay; she could sit and watch as long as she needed to. But class was over when it was over and I couldn't not go on the carpet; the class is only for kids. It's a new business so there were only 4 kids in the class and 3 teachers. The structure was great and they have free time at the beginning so Lainey kept eyeing the ball pit. She wanted to go get in. But every time a teacher would talk to her she'd scurry back out to me. Finally she made it all the way over to the ball pit and once she was in she was pretty much fine.

We went to the coast on Sunday since it was sunny and upper 70s here. Ahhhh. We went to a place that has a lake also so stopped there first since Lainey loves to "swim" around in it. I was in the lake up to my hips with the dog. Jamie was sitting by the water line. DH was messing with putting new batteries in the camera and Jamie starts crawling in to the lake. And crawling and crawling. Not phased at all by it getting deeper. He kept going until he went under - fortunately I got to him right after that. Crazy child :eek: Helene - can we swap a little of Victor's timidity for some of Jamie's blind fearlessness?!!!

Kim

[cchhbb]

Susan, I'm so sorry to hear about the leaking oil tank. I hope you are able to resolve the issue quickly.

Sounds like the birthday parties will be a lot of fun. We haven't been invited to very many birthday parties yet. I guess that will probably start next year.

Paula, are there schools that are certified under another program? I think that NAEYC is largely administrative. It does promote a play based environment. Garrett's preschool is certiifed and the Director is one of the examiners.

Heather, good to hear from you again. There is a great book that I just got the boys from Discovery Toys that is Big Brother, Little Brother. It's really cute and focuses on the special relationship that the boys have.

Joanne, I used to teach gymnastics and I remember the girls underware always hanging out. I do think many moms put the silky underpants on the girls that matched the leotard so they were less bulk than the cotton ones.

Lori, congratulations on the new job. I hope things go well for you. Garrett did the same thing with the night terrors when DH went on vacation. It took him about 5 days after he got back to really settle down.

Helene, I would be so mad at that swimming experience. Boy would I raise some caine. I'm glad Victor recovered well.

Garrett is being a bear lately. I know he's tired, but he is taking a long time to go to sleep and waking up early. He asked to go to bed today although he's not sleeping now. I can hear him playing in there.

My mom is here now so I am taking advantage of the free babysitting and have scheduled doctor's appointments like crazy. Today, I went to the OBGYN and tomorrow I have to take Garrett to the eye doctor. In the morning, Garrett and I are going to look at a class for next year that will help him with his speech delay.

Cheryl

[RunnerKim]

Paula,
we must have been posting at the same time. My daycare is NAEYC certified and it was an accreditation that was highly recommended to me by an early childhood specialist coworker (I work at an education not-for-profit). I had Lainey at another location before this and while they were acceptable they weren't satisfactory for me. Too much taking care of minimum needs and not enough "child development" focus. I understand that it is a lot of work on the center's part to apply and be approved so I think there are many good centers that don't probably take the time/effort to get the accreditation and I personally would consider a non-accredited daycare if I felt they met my quality standards (but would chose an accredited one over a non if I had the choice). I found on their web site this checklist http://www.rightchoiceforkids.org/docs/quality_checklist.pdf so maybe you could use that as a guide when evalauting other options. I'd also ask the director why they aren't accreditated. I would probably also be willing to "gamble" on the new center if I liked what I knew about other branches of it (education philosophy etc).

So are you staying at your current position until you find a new one? I thought you'd mentioned relocating with DH even if you hadn't found a new position yet? DH and I worked apart for almost a year early in our marriage and it was tough but kids weren't even involved at that point. (and I thought it was rough getting up to let our puppy out at night all by myself :rolleyes: ).

Cheryl - enjoy the extra help!

Apparently chicken pox - or maybe not - is at the daycare. A baby was out with it last week. Jamie would have been exposed the same day he got the vaccine. The baby that had it has had medical challenges and a suppressed immune system - I'm not sure what the disorder is but a side effect is seizures/eplipesy (which sounds pretty bad for only being a side effect!). But then apparently the blood text came back negative for chicken pox. But just this weekend another baby apparently has chicken pox - but it's not been confirmed with a blood test. So maybe a chicken pox looking virus? This second baby is one Jamie interacts with a lot; he's over a year but I don't know if he had the vaccine or not.

Leigh are your reading? If you are, you've posted before about doing a behaviour reward system when your girls were younger. What age did you start that? How old does a kid need to be for delayed reward/punishment? Horrible not-listening after swim class last night. I know she's tired and probably hungry (although I do give before class snack) but it was a series of events (getting back in the pool, hitting me when I forced her to stay in the shower, running away from me when we were leaving). I don't have an immediate response (she lost getting to measure how tall she was when she went back in the pool, so I told her she had time out when we got home but I don't know that was all that effective (certainly didn't stop the non-listening behavior). Ended up dragging her out of the community center and stuffing her in her car seat. After swim classes tend to be tough for Lainey so I wondered about instituting a reward system to help her understand what's acceptable behavior. Thoughts anyone?

Kim

[LaraW]

Kim, I don't know if this would help or not, but you may remember I had a big problem with Natalie running away from me a few months ago. One thing I found to be very helpful was to tell her before we were in the situation where she would run away, was if she could walk nicely and hold my hand that when we got to the car she could have ___. It usually was a sticker, but sometimes was a small toy I'd brought from home. Sometimes I'd bring 2 small toys (things that were small enough to fit in my purse or pocket) and I'd give her 1, and tell her I had the other one and she could have it in the car when we got there, if she could walk nicely.

Then, the whole way to the car or while we were walking, I talked about how nice of a job she was doing.

I don't know if Lainey is too old for that kind of a thing or not, but I thought I'd throw it out.

ETA: THanks for that website, Kim. We are just beginning the search for new daycare for Natalie, and that is good to have. She will be 3 in December, and her current daycare only allows kids to age 3.

[paula]

Kim, We will be moving regardless of whether I find employment; however, if I am not working, the kids will not be going to daycare.

Paula

[RunnerKim]

Paula, I clearly shouldn't be offering to give away any of my sleep! I re-read your post and couldn't find why I thought you'd mentioned keeping the kids where they were. I must of read something wrong. Just never mind me!

Kim

[LA98]

Just going to chime in for a minute on the daycare accreditation issue for Paula: I used to do some work with NAEYC, went to their national conference when it was in New York a few years ago; I'm a big fan of what they do. When I was checking out different daycares, I always asked if they were NAEYC certified because it was important to me. Brian's current school is not certified. They are not working toward it either. But I asked for copies of their curriculum and compared it to the one from his previous center (which did have their certification) and they were identical. So I guess I'm echoing what Kim said, in that I think it's a good thing to have, but if you sense the quality is there and you are happy with it in all other regards, I would not let that stop you from going with a center that doesn't have it.

Susan and Heather, I am so envious of your wonderful experiences with Goddard. We had 2 very, very miserable experiences with 2 different Goddards. I still kind of shudder whenever I see the name. It just goes to prove how different centers can be, even when they're affiliated with the same company. It's really all about the owners and the administrators and how they decide to run their particular business....

[NMG]

What is NAEYC????

Lara and Kim - I'm hoping Tesa will be fine walking down the aisle - she isn't too shy of a girl and she will be walking down with 2 of my friends nieces who she met a few months ago and had a ton of fun with! At my brothers wedding, I'm also in it, so she'll see me down at the end (as well as my brother) - we'll see though. I'm just hoping she doesn't get nervous with all the people watching (although she usually doesn't in a situation like that!).
MrsReber - that parties sound like a lot of fun!!!
Kim - I want to say there was a case of mumps in Lancaster,PA - could the kids at your daycare possibly have that and not chicken pox??? Hopefully its just a viral rash that will just go away o its own.......
Lara - I like the sticker reward system of yours - we have a few problems with Tesa and control lately (exp her not wanting to hold my hand when we are walking) and I may have to start something like that with her.
Cheryl - Enjoy the free babysitting!!!! How old is Garrett?
Sarah - Tesa will be 3 October 5th! The first wedding is Oct 7th, 2006 and the other wedding she'll be a flower girl in is July 7, 2007 (7-7-07, weird, huh?). She'll be walking down with 2 other little girls she's met for the one this Oct and I'm pretty sure there will be 1 more little girl at the one next year so I'm hoping she won't get nervous and will just have a little fun :p She's pretty outgoing, so honestly, I think she'll be fine :D

[JoanneOR]

Wow, there's alot of posts since I last checked in! Let's see if I can catch up!

Helene, I'm a bit late in responding, but I can just echo what everyone else said about Victor's lessons. I, too, would have been furious. How hard would it have been to call the parents to let them know the class had changed? Especially a class for timid swimmers. I am terrified of water; have been since I can remember. I don't know if I had a bad experience or what, but I am so glad that the boys are comfortable in the water. Caitlyn is a bit timid, but I think it's normal for her age and not having much exposure to water. Because of my fears, I've always been worried that our kids would be like me. So, your story hit home for me.

Amy, hope your feeling a bit better. We've had few spillage problems in the car. :(

Natalie, wow, Tesa's quite the popular girl in two weddings! Can't wait to see pictures! :)

Lori, congratulations on the job!!

Hi Heather! Glad to see you here and to hear that you are all doing well. Sounds like Logan has adjusted quite well to being a big brother! :)

Sarah, yes, Caitlyn and Ella need to stop commismerating! (don't know if I spelled that right, but you know what I mean!) Caitlyn has one tiny stuffed duck that quacks and one tiny chick that cheeps that she got for Easter. Well, each night she starts off asking for one of them (the one that you have no idea where it is, of course :mad: ). You finally find it, then ten minutes later she's crying that she doesn't want that one, she wants the other. Yes, someday, they'll realize how wonderful sleep really is!

Lara, sorry to hear about Natalie's ear infection, but it's good to have a reason for her not sleeping so well. I know it's so hard to go back to work after being on maternity leave. Even being home a week last month was wonderful.

Susan, the parties sound fun! The doggie party is a cute idea. You're very lucky to have the kids in a place you are so happy with. I credit the preschool the boys went to with how well they are doing in school now. I would go ahead and challenge Casey now. There's always the opportunity for her to move up a grade when she gets to grammar school if the school and you think it's the right thing to do.

Kim, wow, Jamie really doesn't have any fear! Sounds like a great day at the beach! That gym class sounds great with the ratio of students to teachers. Hmm, I'm not sure what else you can do regarding Lainey's behaviour in swim class. I think it needs to be more immediate than a timeout at home, though. It really sounds like she's tired or frustrated. What time of day is the class? Maybe you can do some sort of sticker rewards? Like each day she listens after class she gets a sticker, a certain amount of stickers and she earns a reward? I don't know, though. I hope they can figure out what that virus is at your daycare. Sounds kind of scary.

DH took Ian to the dentist yesterday for his check-up and cleaning. He comes home and I ask him what did the dentist say about his teeth. He says "I don't know - I was in the other room." What?? :confused: Men! He had an appointment at the same time, so I understand that. But I'm worried about Ian's tooth and it looked to me like he had some cavities. He finally told me that the dentist said the orthodontist will deal with the extra tooth and that he didn't have any cavities. It was just the glue from his expander. We go Saturday to the orthodontist. I hope he doesn't have to pull it.

OK, I'd better get to work...

[RunnerKim]

Does mumps have a rash? I didn't think so but I really don't know anything about mumps except those photos they show with the swollen lymph glands. I have not heard of any Mumps cases being reported in the NW. Found out today that the infant teacher thinks that was actually a third case (first one) but he was diagnosed as having "skin tags" and not chicken pox even though it looked like chicken pox. I told DH to keep in mind that we could need to figure out how to cover a week @ home. I'd think though that it wouldn't be sequential like it's appearing that more than one baby would come down with it around the same time.

Natalie - NAEYC stands for National Association for the Education of Young Children (http://www.naeyc.org).

Kim

[tbb113]

Kim - both of my boys got chicken pox in daycare. Every single kid ended up catching it when Michael got it (all 10). It came in three waves (one kid brought it, then a bunch caught it, then a second bunch and finally the third bunch.) The third wave actually got to go to day care since at that point, everybody had it :cool: I think when Alex got it, there were fewer cases. Could be because the vaccine was out by then (but at that time my peditrician felt you should wait until 12 to get it since he wasn't sure if it would give life long immunity like actually getting chicken pox gives). I ended up missing 2 weeks with Michael and no weeks with Alex since my parents lived here then. :)

[MrsReber]

Paula, our Goddars is NOT accredited. I was looking for accredited schools in our area and only found a couple. Oddly enough, the Ft. Monmouth daycare was accredited and supposed to be one of the best daycares in the state. We found that Goddard was far better than Ft. Monmouth. Really, I think it all depends on the daycare. The only way to truly find out is to visit them. I visited another daycare before I chose Goddard. The other daycare is a big name in our area, but I didn't like it. It was dark, the woman at the desk had no information she could give me (didn't know where the information folders were), and then she asked me to come back at a better time. I was really put off by that. On paper, they looked just as good as Goddard. Oh, and the kids were sitting around watching movies in the afternoons.

I'm always surprised to hear about bad experiences at Goddard. My SIL's sister had a bad experience with one just south of us. The Goddard people do surprise inspections and rate all of the schools. You could probably find out how well the PA Goddars are. They get ratings (A, B, C, etc). DH spoke to the director at our school. She said that some Goddards are happy with getting a C rating! Our Goddard got the highest rating they could possibly get last year and they have the award to prove it. I'm sure there must be a way to check out the grades of each individual one.

Joanne, thanks for the advice. I want to keep challenging Casey because she can handle it and she really enjoys it. I guess we can always move her up later. She'd be good with that. She amazes me because she's not overly concerned about other kids liking her. She has a couple of friends, but I find that I can put her into any social situation and she'll just do her own thing. I wonder if she'll always be like that?

[JoanneOR]

Susan, I know this is thinking way ahead, but if you do have an opportunity to move Casey up a grade, I think the younger she is, the better. Jameson had an opportunity to move up to second when he was in first and we didn't do it. In third grade the teacher said he really should go up to fourth, there was nothing she could do to challenge him anymore. So, after meeting with her and the principal, we did move him and socially it was really, really hard. I really believe if he would have moved up in first he would have been much better off. He would have been able form friendships with the new kids easier I think than he is now. Now the kids are a bit older and much more established with their groups of friends. Jameson had several good friends in third grade, but has had a hard time in fourth. Academically he's doing great, but socially he's not so happy. And, I think it might even be harder for girls. Sorry to go on about something that hasn't even happened yet for Casey, but just wanted to share what happened with us in case it comes up in the future!

[MrsReber]

Joanne, thanks, I appreciate the insight. I had a chance to skip third grade. I actually decided against it because of the social aspect. I was (am) very shy and it was hard for me to make friends. I agree,the older kids get, the stronger friendships they form.

[Sarah428]

Thoughts please...(BTW: I have re-read the spanking thread)

Last night while w/ DH, Ella screamed, kicked, etc through her entire bath about her lotion, going potty, brushing her teeth...everything. At some point DH spanked her. I didn't see it, I was in the kitchen, but he knows how I feel about it. Although he believes in spanking he has said he won't do it based on me not approving of it since it teaches her that hitting is ok and trying to justifying how spanking is a disciplanary (sp?) action to a 2.5 yo is nearly impossible.

This is only the 2nd time he has spanked her but he uses the threat of it often or when she's crying will say "I'll give you something to cry about". We got into a short, heated arguement about it last night and his justification was "she needs to have some fear and know who's in control, we were raised differently so get over it." I agree w/ us having to be in control but I don't ever really think a child should fear their parents.

He says I try to talk to her like an adult too much and that I'm too soft. When she's like that I tell her she needs to calm down & we can talk when she's done screaming. Last night I held her and we counted to 20 very slowly, it worked for a few minutes but then something else set her off. I think it's more important to calm her down and discuss why she's upset and why it's upsetting mommy & daddy.

Am I being to soft?
What other forms of disipline or punishment work at this age? Sometimes she's still screaming after her 3 minutes in timeout and it gets us now where.

Thanks for letting me vent ~ Sarah

[NMG]

Sarah - I alwasy put Tesa in timeout for at least 5 mins - she just isn't calm enough after the 2 or 3 I should give her and sometimes it's even 10 mins. in her crib, no toys, no books, no dolls, nothing. I have spanked Tesa twice, although I don't think it registers as a punishment to her - she has then hit me afterwards and it accomplishes nothing. I talk to Tesa after she has calmed down and she usually tells me why she did something or why she was so angry adn that she wants to be nice. I myself am still trying to find the "right" disaplining actions for the kids - especially when we are out in public amongst strangers. Do you all punish the same in public as you do at home? Do you let them get away with slightly more in public or around strangers??? My friend and I were just having this conversation earlier this week (she has a daughter a few weeks older than Mikey).

On another note - has anyone experienced night terrors with their kids??? I'm not exactly sure if this was what happened to Tesa last night, but she started yelling that she needed her momma and when I went into her room, she was still asleep and I kept telling her momma was there, but once again, she wasn't awake. She was alittle upset when she went to bed last night and I didn't know if maybe something sparked a nightmare or anything?? Aftera few mins I laid her back down and she rolled over and was fine. I'll have to ask her babysitter this afternoon if Tesa mentioned anything to her today.........

[JoanneOR]

Sarah, I probably could have written the same post you did. My DH feels the same way as yours and I feel the same way as you. He has spanked the boys and I hate it. He really hasn't done it lately, though, I don't think. I don't think he has ever spanked Caitlyn. Also, if one of the boys hits the other or something like that, he tells them it's OK to do it back. We've had many "discussions" about this. I don't think it accomplishes anything. I think men just think about things differently and I guess it depends on how they grew up. Caitlyn has been having some terrible fits lately and has reverted back to her old sleeping habits. I just don't know what to do either. A few times when she's just out of control I'll put her in her room and tell her she can come out when she calms down - I don't give her a set time. That sometimes works. She'll just lose it over the simplest things. She'll drop something on the floor, perfectly within her reach and will have a tantrum because we tell her to pick it up herself. Last night she was having a meltdown and I just basically ignored her. It went on for a long time and finally she calmed down and said she wanted to go to bed. I'm trying not to react to the tantrums; not to give in to whatever she is asking for if it's not reasonable. It's hard. Hang in there; it does get better with age! Although I must say I don't remember the boys being quite so "volatile." :rolleyes: Otherwise, I don't think we would have had four kids. ;)

Natalie, I probably don't punish the same in public as I do at home, just because of the circumstances. Punishment in public is usually more like "stop doing that, or you won't have this or that privilege when we get home." Although that is usually more for the boys; I don't think that would work with Caitlyn. I really don't have too many problems with them in public, though. I wouldn't let them get away with more in public or at home. I think you have to be consistent with your expectations of them.

I've heard of night terrors, but don't think any of my kids really had them. Maybe Jameson, but he was less than a year old. Sounds like Tesa was having a bad dream. Maybe she saw something on TV or heard something that triggered it?

[Sarah428]

Joanne - I know I've said this before but Caitlyn and Ella are exactly the same! What you describe is a mirror image of what is happening in our house.

I guess what I'm asking is, when Ella is having a tantrum do I:
(A) - Tell her to go to her room and she can come out when she's calmed down (I'm not sure she nows how to calm herself down yet and sometimes I have to hold the door closed or she'll just run out after me)
(B) - Hold her and count to 20, say ABC, etc to help her calm down
(C) - Some other miracle method
(D) - Spank

I use the 1st 2 but that's where DH says I'm too soft. I try very hard to calm her down and then discuss the situation so it becomes a learning tool.

[JoanneOR]

Sarah, I don't know - I think the answer may be C! :eek:

This may sound silly, but it's worth a try. Have you ever watched SuperNanny? I know, I know, but I've seen a few episodes and some of what she does makes sense. She's used things like a naughty chair for situations like this. When the child is doing something wrong (not that a tantrum is necessarily "wrong", but you know what I mean), they go to the naughty chair. Or, it can just be a step, or somewhere where they have to stay. You get down the kids level, look them in the eye and explain why they are going there. Walk away, if they get up, don't say anything, just calmly put them back. Sometimes it takes quite a few times for them to stay there. After a few minutes or after they've calmed down, go talk to them and explain why they were put there. I don't know if that works so well for tantrums, or just misbehaving, but maybe it's worth a try. Maybe putting them in their room is too extreme; maybe somewhere closer would work better? Although reading your post again, it kind of sounds like what you are already doing? Maybe a strong margarita would be better?? :p For us, not them!

DH says I'm too soft, too, with all the kids, and I probably am. But, what I'm really trying to do is not to give into whatever is causing the tantrum. It's way easier to go ahead and pick up the blanket than have Caitlyn in hysterics for 20 minutes, but in the long run hopefully with consistency she'll learn that the tantrums don't work. Good luck...I feel your pain!

[HRJ]

First, about night terrors -- we had many episodes of night terrors with Victor when he was between 2 and 3 years old. And it wasn't always night -- quite often, it happened during afternoon naps, particularly if they were late-afternoon naps and he was overtired. The big difference between night terrors and nightmares is that during a night terror, the child is not awake, although they may be talking, walking, etc. Also, the child will not remember a night terror after they wake up.

The advice is not to try to wake a child during a night terror, and not to expect to be able to "reason" with them -- ie, even though you keep telling them "mommy is here," that won't register, and they may keep screaming for mommy. The best thing you can do at the time is stay by the child and make sure they are safe.

If I remember correctly, night terrors seem to be more common at a certain age, and tend to occur more often if the child is overtired. In Victor's case, we haven't dealt with a night terror for a long time, but they can be very frightening for the parents.

About spanking -- I personally don't believe in it as a discipline technique, for the reasons that Sarah mentioned, and DH and I don't do it. And, BTW, I *was* spanked as a child. I don't think being spanked turned me into a violent person or anything, but I also don't think it was particularly effective in teaching me to cope with anger or frustration. As you said, Sarah, I don't think "fear" is going to change Ella's behaviors, at least not at this age.

But, I think the most important thing, however you discipline, is having both parents on the same page. I'm not trying to sound preachy, but you and DH need to have a discussion about it at a time when neither of you is feeling stressed from "toddler wrangling," and agree that you're going to stick to your decision, no matter what.

About time-outs -- the kind where you sit in a specific place for xx number of minutes, based on age, the way they tell you to do it in the books -- when Victor was younger, I never found them to be effective, at all. But I always seemed to be in the minority on that. I think for a 2-3 year old who's having a tantrum, what you mostly need to do is either calm them (through holding them; removing them from the situation; etc.) or, stop paying attention and just let the tantrum run its course (making sure that the child is safe, of course). Now that he's older, when we need to stop an out-of-control behavior, we send him to his room, and he stays there until he (and we) are calmer, regardless of how long that takes -- we don't even bother to time it or anything.

I don't think you can "reason" with them -- they're just not going to be able to articulate what's bothering them, or to understand why it upsets you, etc. -- I think in most cases, it's more or less a physiological thing with the kids, they have this frustration/anger/confusion/mish-mash of emotions, and they're not even able to understand it mentally, so they just react physically. I'm saying this based on lots and lots of tantrums/misbehavior that, in retrospect, I think DH and I *didn't* handle the right way. DH is really big on the idea of "talking it over" (his father was a developmental psychologist, can you imagine being raised by someone who does that for a living?) I've come to the conclusion that at these young ages, most of our "patient explanations" just didn't penetrate. (I'm thinking of those Charlie Brown cartoons, where the teachers' voice comes over just sounding like "blaaah-blaaah-blaaah")


Thanks for all the kind words about Victor's swimming experience. I really didn't mean to make anyone cry, though!! :o When it was happening, at the Y, I was just so angry -- then when I got home later, I started thinking about how scared Victor looked, and I got all emotional, and I guess that came through in my post.

Paula, about day-cares being accredited -- I took a look at the NAEYC web site, FYI, it's not up-to-date -- our center became accredited last year, but it's not listed on the web site yet.

But, when I was looking for day-care, I have to admit I really wasn't aware of NAEYC, so that wasn't among my priorities. As it turned out, neither of the centers that ended up on the top of my list after visiting them -- that also had a spot available when we needed it -- were accredited. I'm very, very happy with the place we ended up choosing, and I know people who have kids at the other center we were considering, and they are satisfied, too. The fact that our center got its NAEYC accreditation last year is sort of "icing on the cake" -- makes me feel better that the center has been evaluated and acknowledged by a reputable outside source, but the program has been the same all along. So I guess I'd say accreditation is a minor consideration in my POV.

Kim, hope Jamie doesn't get whatever the rash/illness is that's going around.

And Lori, congrats on the new job!!! :) I'm glad you were able to find something relatively quickly. Hope you enjoy it.

It's taken me forever to write this -- don't mean to ignore anyone who might be posting while I am!

Helene

[MrsReber]

I will admit to giving my kids a whack on the backside, but never a hard smack and I can probably count on one hand the amount of times that I've done this. Though I did give Casey a little whack last night. The kids were out of control (being silly) and not listening to me. They were also doing something that I aksed them to stop doing about ten times. I don't think it's right, but I use it to get their attention because they don't expect that from me (I'm a softie, too). Casey just said "ouch!", realized I was serious and then stopped what she was doing.

I would NEVER do that if a child was throwing a tantrum because it does not help the problem in any way. I hate to say it, but sounds like your DH wanted an outlet for his own frustration with the situation- though he probably thinks of it as "discipline" he was merely venting. My DH has spanked on a couple of occasions. I gave him a signal at the time that it was not appropriate, but at the same time, I didn't want the kids to see me reacting to it and protecting them from DH. I figured that wasn't good either. We had a talk about it afterwards and told him he needed to have a talk with Casey (the offending child). When DH threatens a spanking, I usually mutter to him "yeah, THAT will solve the problem!" Because in general, it only makes them cry more and get mad at you.

No experience with night terrors!

I do have another question, though. DH often will give the kids treats and say "don't tell mommy about this!" DH tells me, anyway, so it's not like a big secret. When the kids say something, he'll act disappointed and say "oh, I told you not to tell!" Okay, so it's just kidding around and joking, but here's my problem with it. I speak to the kids often about always being honest with me, even if they think I'll get mad or if someone threatens them and says not to tell me. I explain that mommy is here to help them and they should never be afraid to tell me anything. This is important to me because there are bad people in this world, unfortunately, and I want to know right away if anyone ever hurts them. So, do you think DH's comments are counter productive? I'm not terribly concerned about it, but I often tell the kids that there are no secrets between any of us and it has to always be that way. Casey gets it- she will tell me the truth even if she thinks I'll be angry. Brenden, however, has tried to hide things from me. Just a thought.

[slknight]

Joanne - I know I've said this before but Caitlyn and Ella are exactly the same! What you describe is a mirror image of what is happening in our house.

I guess what I'm asking is, when Ella is having a tantrum do I:
(A) - Tell her to go to her room and she can come out when she's calmed down (I'm not sure she nows how to calm herself down yet and sometimes I have to hold the door closed or she'll just run out after me)
(B) - Hold her and count to 20, say ABC, etc to help her calm down
(C) - Some other miracle method
(D) - Spank

I use the 1st 2 but that's where DH says I'm too soft. I try very hard to calm her down and then discuss the situation so it becomes a learning tool.

Delurking here. There is a great message board here:
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/mb/index.php?board=19.0

Don't be put off by the "Gentle Christian" part of it. It's got great techniques for gentle discipline that pertain to anyone. There are some really interesting ideas such as The Five Steps and the Comfort Corner. But fundamentally, I think you need to work this out between you and your DH. "Give you something to cry about" would scare the crap out of me and I would not tolerate it if DH said something like that to DS. Regardless of the type of parenting you practice, I think it's really important for both parents to be on the same page. [/getting off my soapbox]

[Sarah428]

Thanks to all of you for your comments. I know this is more b/w me & DH than anything and that we must be consistent.

Susan (slk) - Thanks for the link, I'm going there next.

Susan (Reber) - I too think DH used the spanking more last night as an outlet, which is what bothers me even more. Regarding your DH and "don't tell mom" I think there is a fine line where kids can understand when it's a joke so I'm w/ you. I'd rather it be consistent that my children know not to hide anything.

Helene - I guess agree w/ you regarding toddlers and not being able to articulate what's bothering them (Ella's often just shrugs when I ask what was wrong after a tantrum). However, I do think we can talk about how to behave when she's upset (hitting her bed in frustration is ok, hitting mommy is not, counting to 20 to calm down, etc.) once she has calmed down.

Joanne - A margarita or a nice big glass of red wine is just what I needed last night! Thanks for the support!

Natalie - I ditto everything Helene wrote about the night terrors, good luck!