Anyone use landscaping fabric? Wood mulch??

[VictoriaL]

I have some huge planting beds and am would like to find a way to control weeds without using Roundup (possible drift onto my plants) or manually pulling them (bad back). I saw landcaping fabric and, before ordering mulch, I have a few questions for those who might use it:

How do you keep it in place on slopes?

When you lay down the fabric and then add a layer of wood mulch, won't the mulch eventually decompose thereby giving weed seeds a place to germinate? Then grow their strong weed-roots down through the fabric?

How long does the fabric last, if not directly exposed to sun (under a layer of wood chips)?

Thanks for the info. This stuff is a little pricey and I'm unsure if it would really help.

Also, what kind of wood mulch do you like? We have been fortunate enough to have commercial tree services in the area dumping their "waste" here for us, but we now need more than they can give us. I heard once that cedar mulch repels insects. Is it true? Thanks, once more!

[gertdog]

I have some huge planting beds and am would like to find a way to control weeds without using Roundup (possible drift onto my plants) or manually pulling them (bad back). I saw landcaping fabric and, before ordering mulch, I have a few questions for those who might use it:

How do you keep it in place on slopes?

When you lay down the fabric and then add a layer of wood mulch, won't the mulch eventually decompose thereby giving weed seeds a place to germinate? Then grow their strong weed-roots down through the fabric?


Victoria, I can't address all of your questions, but here are my thoughts.

First, if you do use landscaping fabric, you can hold it in place with "earth staples" which look like, well, large staples that you just pound into the ground through the cloth.

Second, we have landscaping fabric in our front yard beds. It was there when we moved here 2 years ago. It's in exactly the state you describe- broken-down mulch and soil on top has allowed weeds to grow and the fabric is now helpfully held in place by weed roots. The fabric is useless at this point and in fact looks ugly because when I pull the weeds, it makes the fabric bunch up and pull out of place. Ugh. We're planning to remove it. Instead I'm going to try something I recently read in a magazine- lay down a single layer of newspaper around your plants, tearing to fit. Cover with mulch. Water thoroughly. The newspaper will eventually break down but will keep the bed weed free for the season. If it works, I'll happily do it once a year- but then, we don't have a lot of beds to deal with.

[ClaraB]

I personally despise landscape fabric - really persistent weeds will grow through it, at which point it becomes a real b!tch to get them out. I've been told that commercial grade landscape fabric is better, but I don't feel like wrestling with the stuff again to find out. My recommendation would be to Roundup the area you're going to plant (Roundup isn't persistent), then prepare the soil, plant and mulch it well. Any weeds that start on top of the mulch are very easy to pull if you get them early enough.

[VictoriaL]

Ah, it seemed too good to be true... :(
Thanks, guys.

Stephanie, I use a layer of newspaper in my garden, and add a layer of straw on top. It keeps the weeds down, and the next spring I till it back into the soil. It certainly would work on your flower beds, but the paper would break down in a year or two (if it's a thick layer-- perhaps 6 sheets thick or so) and need to be replaced.

Now, any suggestions on mulch? I'm going to need to find a landscape supply place and order it by the truckload. *sigh* I love spring, but all of the outside work gets to me a bit. :o

[ChristieinMB]

I was considering adding landscape fabric, should I just use Roundup, do you spray the weed, how long does it take to die? Does it just shrivel up and go away?

[VictoriaL]

There are different formulations of Roundup. One new one features residual weed control over a period of months. That bothers me, having something like that, strong enough to stay in the soil and kill weeds over a period of time! I do like Roundup (the regular formulation) since it is absorbed into the plant, kills it, and then dissolves. I use the concentrate, which is more economical for the quantity which I need than the ready-to-use.

As for how long it takes to work, that depends on a bunch of variables: the type of weed (broadleaf perennial weeds, at their peak growing season, take longer than annual grasses to present the effects), the weather conditions, and the formula strength. As a rule, I expect to see the weeds wilting in a couple of days, browned and dead within a week or 10 days. When the weeds brown out, they kind of blend into the mulch. Or I throw some more over the "weed carcass".

BTW, if you have just a few weeds to kill, try a mixture of hot white vinegar and salt (not sure of the proportions, 2c vinegar to 1 T. salt sticks in my mind) poured over the weeds. Cheaper and quicker for a few individual weeds.

[Violanan]

We've just installed landscape fabric in several large beds, with pine bark mulch on top (about 6 inches of it.) We used the "earth staples" all over it, and also put a 6" metal edging that comes in 8' or 12' strips around the mulch on slopes where it would have washed away. The key to using this method successfully is to come back in the fall and check everything, pull any weeds promptly, and next spring, reload with mulch! Yes, it's lots of work, but less work than pulling all those weeds...we actually hired a lawn service to do ours and found it was very worth it, so we plan to use them next spring to renew our mulch.

We have previously used the Round-up, followed by planting, followed by putting down broken brick mulch....I liked the look, but it too was labor intensive as the broken brick weighed tons! This lasted pretty well, but still had to get the weeds out every year and fill in the mulch in spots.

We also have an area that is underplanted with ground cover (vinca minor) and it does very well with few weeds once the gc is established.

Good luck,
Nancy

[Gumbeaux]

In the south, pine needles are commonly put in flower beds by professional landscapers and homeowners to control weeds and hold in moisture. This is what I use. It looks great, is inexpensive, readily available and doesn't float away during rain storms like wood chips do.

I have huge pine trees in my yard so I have all the pine needles I need. I put a lot in the flowerbeds so it chokes out any weeds that are there.

http://members.carolina.net/pineneedles/4.jpg

[hollysmom]

Now, any suggestions on mulch? I'm going to need to find a landscape supply place and order it by the truckload. *sigh* I love spring, but all of the outside work gets to me a bit. :o

Check the price on the bulk mulch vs. the bags from HD or Lowes. I have found the price to be equal (especially using the 3 CU FT bags from Lowes) on Pine Bark Mulch and I can pick up what I plan to get spread that day, move it in the car over to the beds and spread it at my convenience. I am not stuck with a huge pile in my driveway that must be moved by wheelbarrow all in one day or two.

SSM

[funnybone]

To prevent weeds in flowerbeds, there is a procuct called PREEN that stops any growth from starting, without killing your plants. We use this each spring before we get new mulch. It really works. DH orders mulch and gets a "spread" price. We have alot of area to cover, and with his work schedule, he just doesn't have the time. It's so nice to come home to it already done.

http://www.preen.com/newpreen/index.jsp


BTW - when we lived in GA, we used pine needles. Having just moved from Canada at the time, it was news to us. We were told that they didn't use traditional wood mulch down there due to problems with termites. I don't know if that was true or not, but those pine needles sure were expensive from what I remember and didn't look good for long.

[LakeMartinGal]

I'm glad you said that about Preen... MIL has used it forever, and really swears by it! The only problem that I have ever had is that I start too late in the season to use it effectively... It doesn't occur to me to garden until I see the weeds, and by then it's too late.

We moved to the South a few years ago, and see the pine needle mulch everywhere... we use it, too, at $3.50 a (small) bale, but it does go grey pretty fast. I'd like DH to use cypress mulch along with it, but since I don't actually do any of the gardening, I don't have much sway with him... :o

[funnybone]

but since I don't actually do any of the gardening, I don't have much sway with him... :o


LOL - I'm not a gardener either. I did have luck with herbs in pots last year though. :D

[Melman]

I have landscape fabric in two huge beds in my backyard. The first year I these areas were beds (versus hard-to-mow grass and weeds because of the location), I used bags of mulch from Lowe's or Home Depot. It looked great. I think the bags were probably about $3 each. I ended up needing MANY more bags than I originally thought. Can't remember how many times I had to go back to the store to load them in the trunk of my Honda!!

Last year, I had a professional landscaper put down double-ground hardwood mulch. OH MY! It was absolutely gorgeous. He covered everything in the front yard plus covered these two beds in the backyard as well.

He did such a good job last year, I think I'm going to be able to go without new mulch this year but will definitely need it next year. The weeds are still controllable in pretty much all the beds. Back to that landscraping fabric question. After two separate (and different types) layers of mulch, I have VERY few weeds coming through the fabric. I pulled most of the last week. The roots were right at the surface. Nothing was tough to pull and I took care of both beds very quickly.

I've done pine needles in the past and that looks really good too. Personally, I like mulch slightly better and have very little problems with the mulch floating away in heavy rain. Maybe it's a different type of mulch.

[bobmark226]

Some of you might take a look at the current Consumer Reports which has a lot of good things to say about rubber mulch. More expensive, but also lasts much longer and you use a lot less. I realize it's hard to wrap your mind around the aesthetics of it, but it's certainly worth a gander.

Robert, is that your house?

Bob

[katygirl]

Stephanie, I use a layer of newspaper in my garden, and add a layer of straw on top. It keeps the weeds down, and the next spring I till it back into the soil. It certainly would work on your flower beds, but the paper would break down in a year or two (if it's a thick layer-- perhaps 6 sheets thick or so) and need to be replaced.

:o

Do you then add mulch or soil to the top of the straw?

[hollysmom]

Some of you might take a look at the current Consumer Reports which has a lot of good things to say about rubber mulch. More expensive, but also lasts much longer and you use a lot less. I realize it's hard to wrap your mind around the aesthetics of it, but it's certainly worth a gander.

Robert, is that your house?

Bob
I think the rubber mulch might work for landscape beds, but would not be a good idea for constantly active veggie beds. Using wood mulch allows you to till that stuff in every year and enrich the soil.

SSM

[Laurielee]

I have big areas that we used landscape fabric and slopes and and 6" depth of mulch, it doesnt slide at all. The key is to lay it it thick. we touch it up each year I only have to do mild weed pulling in the spring.

Oh and we have a trailer so DH gets it in bulk, $25 for a yard, and that is several wheelbarrels full

Gumbeaux, your yard/house is beautiful!

Laurie

[jphilg]

Upfront: I am, while not a zealot, a major proponet of organic gardening. I know that not everyone is, so, ya know, grain of salt.

In my mind, mulch has 3 roles: aesthetics, water retention, and soil enrichment (as it breaks down). Rubber mulch might be nice for aesthetics, but hot rubber is not going to help the ground retain water, and it won't break down to enrich the soil. I read the Consumer Reports article, but it still just seems like a bad idea to me.

I sort of have the same feeling about landscape fabric....it really hinders the process of building great soil in your beds, because it keeps you from being able to work in amendments. You'll get a few great years of weed-free beds, but then the soil will be pretty stripped and you'll need to redo the whole thing.

I'm a big believer in the newspaper method gertdog described; it doesn't look good that first fall, but really cuts down on weeds the next year(s). Otherwise, you have to weed. It is part of gardening. :D

Preen, and to a lesser extent, Roundup, are great at keeping downthe weeds, but at what cost? You have to apply them year after year, and year after year they go into the groundwater, into our waterways, and into our food supply. I garden 100% organically (and I know that isn't for everyone) and have found that after a couple years of digging weeds (not just pulling the leaf growth off....use a butter knife, screwdriver, or fishtailed weeder to get the whole plant out), amending the soil with compost, and working in last years' mulch each spring, I have relatively low-weed beds with healthy soil that plants really love to grow in. It takes a little more effort, and isn't instantaneous, but really pays off in the long run.

[Laurielee]

Oops I realized you are doing planting beds, then fabric wont work for planting areas that will be continually replanted. We have ours around shrubs that will never be moved.

Laurie

[gertdog]

In my mind, mulch has 3 roles: aesthetics, water retention, and soil enrichment (as it breaks down). Rubber mulch might be nice for aesthetics, but hot rubber is not going to help the ground retain water, and it won't break down to enrich the soil. I read the Consumer Reports article, but it still just seems like a bad idea to me.

I sort of have the same feeling about landscape fabric....it really hinders the process of building great soil in your beds, because it keeps you from being able to work in amendments. You'll get a few great years of weed-free beds, but then the soil will be pretty stripped and you'll need to redo the whole thing.


This is a really good point. In my new backyard beds, I've been able to work in compost and other amendments. I haven't thought about doing so in the front yard since we have plans to make some major changes there, but the landscape fabric would prevent it anyway.

I've been considering rubber mulch "borders"- a 6" wide strip along the edge of the bed that delineates grass and flowerbed and can be mowed over. DH hates using the trimmer and we're trying to find ways to cut down on the need for it.

[hollysmom]

I have landscape fabric in two huge beds in my backyard. The first year I these areas were beds (versus hard-to-mow grass and weeds because of the location), I used bags of mulch from Lowe's or Home Depot. It looked great. I think the bags were probably about $3 each. I ended up needing MANY more bags than I originally thought. Can't remember how many times I had to go back to the store to load them in the trunk of my Honda!!

Last year, I had a professional landscaper put down double-ground hardwood mulch. OH MY! It was absolutely gorgeous. He covered everything in the front yard plus covered these two beds in the backyard as well.

.

This comes down to money vs effort. I have no money and therefore, have to find the method that expends the least effort on my part. To figure how much you need is just math. Length X width X thickness (all in ft - convert inches) will tell you how many cubic feet you will need. Divide by 27 for cubic yards (how it is delivered in bulk). 3 cu ft. bags were $2.68 yesterday at Lowes. Bulk is $22.68/yd plus $21.50 delivery and fuel surcharge. (at least in my neighborhood)

SSM

[Gumbeaux]

Robert, is that your house?

Bob

No it isn't. I used a picture from the North Carolina Pine Needle Producers Association (http://members.carolina.net/pineneedles/where.html) website because the pictures that they have show the pine needles better than the pictures I have of my house.

My house is the one pictured below. You can see the pine needles in the flowerbed and the pine trees that produced the needles in the background. I haven't done any work in the flowerbeds before this picture was taken a couple of weeks ago.

The yard looks better later on in the summer when the crepe myrtles are blooming.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/bayoutitan/House.jpg

[rosen]

I can't stand not putting my 2 cents in here. I am a volunteer Master Gardener w/ the county extension service. One of my duties is to man the phone when calls like yours come in. If you had called us, here is what I would have told you:

Landscape fabric is more trouble than it is worth. It does not decompose & the mulch spread on top cannot decompose into the soil. Earthworms cannot work their way up into the mulch & help it decompose. Over the years, this will adversely affect the heath of your plants. You will be creating sour/sterile soil around your plants & nutrients cannot get to the roots. In very heavy downpours, the mulch can float & be displaced since the water cannot soak into the mulch/lack of soil quickly enough. NEVER put fabric around trees as those roots MUST breathe! Even though the fabric is perforated, tree roots need all the oxygen they can get from the soil. If you ever want to move plants around--you must peel away the fabric to be able to dig up enough root ball.

NEVER use fresh mulch from a tree service around trees, shrubs or plants until it has composted a minimum of 2-3 months. Fresh chippings can rob your plants of essencial nutrients. You can "burn" your plants. Feel free to use this in areas that are not planted. Never spread mulch more than 3" thick & never let it touch stems or trunks. More depth & water has a hard time penetrating to the soil. It also invites critters to burrow & feast on your yummy stems & trunks. Don't just add new mulch on top of old every year. A crust can form that will not allow water to reach the soil.

Rubber mulch is a disaster in yards w/ lots of trees. Think of raking in the fall. You can't compost it. Can't shred it w/ your lawn mower. Dirt & decaying matter will mix in & you will still get weeds. This is a bad idea for soooo many reasons! I will not even attempt to address colored mulch. :(

The best way to battle weeds it to keep at it. Look around each time you go to the mail box or out to get the paper or water the beds & pull a few at a time. If you have healthy plants & good soil--weeds are not as much of a problem.

The best way to create a new bed is to lay down 4-6 layers of newspapers (not the glossy supplements), wet this down so it doesn't blow away & cover w/ 3-4" of compost/shredded leaves/dirt/etc. mixed together. Leave 2-3 weeks & then go in & plant.

Trench around your beds to prevent grasses from migrating into the beds & create definition. This ends the trimming problem.

I know this was long... but had to get this off my chest!

[bobmark226]

No it isn't. I used a picture from the North Carolina Pine Needle Producers Association (http://members.carolina.net/pineneedles/where.html) website because the pictures that they have show the pine needles better than the pictures I have of my house.

My house is the one pictured below. You can see the pine needles in the flowerbed and the pine trees that produced the needles in the background. I haven't done any work in the flowerbeds before this picture was taken a couple of weeks ago.

The yard looks better later on in the summer when the crepe myrtles are blooming.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/bayoutitan/House.jpg

It's very nice, Robert, but I just cancelled my airplane reservation for my weekend visit. :)

Bob

[gertdog]

Rubber mulch is a disaster in yards w/ lots of trees. Think of raking in the fall. You can't compost it. Can't shred it w/ your lawn mower. Dirt & decaying matter will mix in & you will still get weeds. This is a bad idea for soooo many reasons! I will not even attempt to address colored mulch. :(


Rosen, thanks for chiming in! I love Extension and Master Gardeners- so much knowledge!! I wouldn't have thought of what you'd do about rubber mulch that gets into the grass and elsewhere. So I'm curious- what exactly did Consumer Reports base their recommendation on? (No one needs to answer that for me- I subscribe, so I just have to dig out the issue to find out).

We have ugly red mulch in the front yard (again, leftover from the previous owners of the house). We had someone out from the local nursery to give us an estimate on the work we'd like to have done and she was going down the list of items we'd asked about. When she got to the mulch she said carefully "and are you happy with the red mulch?" I said no, actually, I'd prefer not to have it and she gave this big sigh of relief. I wonder if she'd have tried to talk me out if it, if I'd said I wanted more of the same.

[VictoriaL]

Wow. What a wealth of information!!!

First, to katygirl, I put nothing on top of the straw. I place the newspaper on the garden (vegetable), wet it with the hose, add the straw, and soak it. Unless there is a big windstorm in the next few days it usually stays in place.

Perhaps pine needle mulch is only available in the southern states? I have never seen it around here.

Preen frightens me a bit. It is applied and lingers in the soil, still potent enough to kill emerging weeds. We live on a farm and use spring water and I worry about what gets down through to the water table. Roundup, although it kills everything, breaks down quickly. Although not a perfect solution, it seems to be the best so far. We have some huge planting beds (I used 20 gallons of prepared Roundup solution this afternoon for my "spring kill") and I could never keep them looking decent if I didn't use it. I'll do much smaller touch-ups every 6 weeks or so from now until frost, but am able to to keep up with the weeding manually, for the most part.

Thanks for all of the info about mulch types. I was considering rubber but have now taken that out of consideration for all of the reasons listed!

Don't just add new mulch on top of old every year. A crust can form that will not allow water to reach the soil.

Question-- so what do you do? Rake it up a bit? Remove the old?

Okay, now I have to price-compare mulch from Lowes and the landscape supply. I had no idea that the prices would even come close!

Thanks everyone, your comments were very helpful!

[Gumbeaux]

Perhaps pine needle mulch is only available in the southern states? I have never seen it around here.

I would take note of what professional landscapers are using in your area. Each time you drive by a bank, shopping center, new home construction sites, etc., look to see what is being used. You could also call a professional landscaper and ask for recommendations.

Pine needles are perfect in my area because you have to get the needles out of the yard anyway to keep it from smothering the lawn. Most of the plants in my landscape plan love acidic soil. Pine needles make the soil more acidic when they decompose.

Cypress much is also used here because it is readily available and is naturally decay resistant.

I sure you will find the perfect thing. Just keep trying!

[rosen]

Question-- so what do you do? Rake it up a bit? Remove the old?

Okay, now I have to price-compare mulch from Lowes and the landscape supply. I had no idea that the prices would even come close!


Beware of cheap mulch if you buy it from a landscape supply. Try to visit the source & see what you are getting. There are many different types: pine bark, hardwood, double milled, topsoil/compost mix, etc.... The very cheapest may have foreign matter mixed in such as plastics & glass (I kid you not!). If you have seen what you want somewhere--ask who, what & where along w/ price.

Some mulch should, by nature, decompose into your landscape (become dirt) each year. You can stir up what is there & add a little bit more or remove it & add it to a compost pile (or create a compost pile). The idea is to just not smother the old w/ new.

I have many planted areas all around the house. The shrub beds get all the leaves raked off in late winter & these leaves are shredded & added back to the beds as the "mulch". Each plant gets a topdressing of compost (shredded leaves from the lawn mowing/raking in the fall that has composted over the winter). The flower beds had most leaves removed in the fall, so the spring routine is either just the topdressing of compost & then shredded leaves as "mulch" or just the compost alone. My beds are very full & not much soil is seen once things get growing. Not having lots of open areas also keeps down the weeds. :) I realize that I am vey lucky in that I don't need to buy mulch anymore.

[rosen]

I've been considering rubber mulch "borders"- a 6" wide strip along the edge of the bed that delineates grass and flowerbed and can be mowed over. DH hates using the trimmer and we're trying to find ways to cut down on the need for it.

Keep in mind that these rubber borders do not fade like the mulch in your beds will. So you may end up w/ an unintentional stripe between the lawn & the bed! They don't curve well & can undulate. A better solution would be to cut a trench between the beds & the lawn. This makes for a beautiful border & keeps the grass from migrating into the beds. Cut straight down on the lawn side & angle the bed side... like digging a check mark shape. Make sense? I gotta learn how to post pics!

[ClaraB]

Keep in mind that these rubber borders do not fade like the mulch in your beds will. So you may end up w/ an unintentional stripe between the lawn & the bed! They don't curve well & can undulate. A better solution would be to cut a trench between the beds & the lawn. This makes for a beautiful border & keeps the grass from migrating into the beds. Cut straight down on the lawn side & angle the bed side... like digging a check mark shape. Make sense? I gotta learn how to post pics!We do this, but I must say, it doesn't do much to keep the grass out of the beds. Grass rhizomes can travel a long way, but they'll also travel under whatever edging you would use, so you might as well save the money and just dig the "check-mark" :p .

[bobmark226]

I'm a new boy. I know nothing. You people are frightening me.

I am doing new small things every day. I've never even had my hands in soil before and I am starting by doing simple potting, as well as watering like a mad man to keep hanging baskets from drooping on a wonderful, wildly sunny week.

But I'm using a gardener to take care of the basics and putting myself in his hands, as well as talking to and learning from neighbors, though that hasn't started yet.

I might add that I wasn't recommending the mulch, just letting people know that a reputable source had something positive to say about it. I certainly am glad for Rosen's comments, because I'm learning from those too. (It came to me that I couldn't have rubber mulch around with a dog who likes to eat everything in the yard. :rolleyes: )

I'm also thinking here that we could have a monthly gardening thread, a regular place to land with questions and photos and general stories.

Bob

[gertdog]

Keep in mind that these rubber borders do not fade like the mulch in your beds will. So you may end up w/ an unintentional stripe between the lawn & the bed! They don't curve well & can undulate. A better solution would be to cut a trench between the beds & the lawn. This makes for a beautiful border & keeps the grass from migrating into the beds. Cut straight down on the lawn side & angle the bed side... like digging a check mark shape. Make sense? I gotta learn how to post pics!

This does make sense... but how deep do you dig the trench? And then do you just leave it bare? Thanks!

[gertdog]

I'm also thinking here that we could have a monthly gardening thread, a regular place to land with questions and photos and general stories.

Bob

I think in years past there's been something semi-regular throughout the growing season and I've love to see it happen monthly this year!

Re: dogs and mulch- even bark mulch can be harmful to dogs if they eat it, so keep an eye on Lucky. Dogs eat the strangest things! I had a friend whose backyard had a large area of pea gravel. His dog got sick, the vet xrayed his belly, and guess what- he had a stomach full of pea gravel! One expensive operation later, they spent some more $$$ to have the gravel removed and sod laid in its place.

[Gumbeaux]

This does make sense... but how deep do you dig the trench? And then do you just leave it bare? Thanks!

Here is some information that might help you. I have trench borders in my landscape.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/bayoutitan/Trench.jpg

[Melman]

A landscaper friend of mine taught me to do the edging with a straight edge shovel. You sort of cut an upside-down triangle in the soil. When I get the urge to do this, I'll do something like start on the outside of a bed and do a long line cuts by cutting in at an angle. After a short distance, I'll stand on the inside of the bed and cut another angle that meets the first one at the point.

bed__ . __yard
. . . . \/ <--trench

(ignore the dots...it's the only way I can get the "trench" to fit between "bed" and "yard")

After I've done both sides, I lift out the pseudo triangle and dispose of it. It really does look gorgeous when this is done. Darn it...now I have something else on my list of things I really ought to do.

:D

[misskitty100]

I haven't read the previous replies but we purchased a home with landscaping fabric and it has been a real headache to remove (which we must do every time we want to plant something).

As for Round Up -- if you throw or wrap an old towel over plants that may get accidently sprayed that should protect them from the herbicide. Also, you could try a product like "Preen" which I believe they even sell at Costco this time of year.

[GingerPow]

Second, we have landscaping fabric in our front yard beds. It was there when we moved here 2 years ago. It's in exactly the state you describe- broken-down mulch and soil on top has allowed weeds to grow and the fabric is now helpfully held in place by weed roots. The fabric is useless at this point and in fact looks ugly because when I pull the weeds, it makes the fabric bunch up and pull out of place. Ugh. We're planning to remove it. Instead I'm going to try something I recently read in a magazine- lay down a single layer of newspaper around your plants, tearing to fit. Cover with mulch. Water thoroughly. The newspaper will eventually break down but will keep the bed weed free for the season. If it works, I'll happily do it once a year- but then, we don't have a lot of beds to deal with.

That is exactly the situation we had occur - weed roots woven through landscape fabric, thus creating a nearly immovable mass. (We moved it alright!)

The newspaper works great. I use that in the tomato bed, and cover it with pine needles or grass clippings. No problems at all - it surely does break down. I wondered about the ink from the newpaper, but the tomatoes grew very well - no problems.

[rosen]

I wondered about the ink from the newpaper, but the tomatoes grew very well - no problems.

Most newspapers are printed now w/ soy-based inks. Any of the sections printed on the "newsprint" paper are OK. Just don't use the colored glossy ad sections.