I need to make it through til Fri - Teenage help [Archive]

luv2cook

06-17-2006, 09:38 AM

We don't see the "professional" until Friday of next week and I am desperate to and tired of being stressed out or walking on eggshells. her psychologist is changing positions and is not available at all next week until Friday.

K and I cannot communicate - it's not entirely a teenage thing. She has so many issues and her self-esteem is in the crapper and she hears everything as a critiscism. My DH is out of town and yesterday did not go well. I've been trying to come up w/a way to stop this behavior. she was a miserable human being the month of May. just horrible. I'm so worn out from the miserable behavior, that I have absolutely NO tolerance for it now.

I will try and explain it. Here is what I perceive the problem to be. Whenever she doesn't get her way or she's asked to do something she doesn't want to do, she flies off the handle. Her hackles go up, she's ready to fight about it. I mean, she starts talking like a 12 y/o, she raises her voice, she starts mouthing off about anythign and everything, shifting the blame, saying that I'm this or that; and then if the situation permits, will stomp off. She runs away from something every single time. now, that would be fine if it was occasionally, but she does it all the time. She doesn't want to talk about anything if it doesn't go her way. If you don't agree with her, it's over.

Triggers this week alone. I got a report from her summer school teacher that she was talking constantly all day for 2 days in class and she didn't turn her homework in. When i asked her about it, the teacher lies. "Believe what you want." Driving this week - not following my instructions, arguing with me about everything. Denial of internet access. When I told her why, she started mouthing off. Last night, I asked her to go back around and park in a space (her parking sucks) and she refused to do it. She said that this was fine, she could get out, blah, blah. she escalated it and turned it into a control thing by me. I always have to be in control, blah, blah. another driving incident when she mouthed off (she wasn't paying attention to brake lights in front of her) and I explained why you have to look ahead of the car in front of you and she said that's what brake lights are for. when I tried to explain it further and the reasons why, didn't want to hear it.

Not everything is about driving. If we talk about chores, staying out past curfew, grades, etc., she acts the same way. Even a conversation where you state your opinion and it differs from hers, she gets defensive. She brings a lot of it on herself, but she doesn't see it that way.

It seemed like last night, when we tried talking about stuff, that whenever you don't agree with what she says, she gets frustrated and equates that to not listening. Even when I listen and don't agree with her, she gets mad. I can't win. If she explains something to me and i try to restate it so i understand, she says I'm not listening. Last night she accused me of "starting something" over the parking issue and I told her, yeah, i really enjoy this. it's fun. I also feel like she's so desperate to be right about something, that she will keep at it.

I really feel like I"m not really explaining myself well. I guess what I'm asking for is a way to nip it before it starts. We came up w/a word last night that's a sign for things are getting out of control, but that's as far as we got. I mean, the things we're "arguing" about, she's always wrong. So we can "stop" but the outcome will still be the same and she'll still be frustrated.

My DH says that I need to stop arguing with her and shut her down. Well, that works on some things, but I feel like it fuels the frustration. K wants to be her own boss, do her own thing. Every adult is stupid, lies. She actually, in May, told my DH that she will decide what she does and doesn't do. When my dh said, well, you're going to lose your privileges, starting w/your stereo, she actually told him, you can't take that, that's mine. That next night, we sat her down and I put a box of garbage bags and duct tape on the table and told her that would not ever, while living under my roof, tell us what she would or would not do. WE told her her behavior was unacceptable and she had two options, sink or swim. She could stop or she could go back to louisiana. her choice. i have to be honest. DH and i were wanting her to go back. we were/are so sick of her crap.

I cannot continue down this path of destruction. any thoughts on how to help us communicate better would be appreciated.

Laura

06-17-2006, 10:24 AM

So sorry you are going through this, and I don't know that I have a lot of advice, but here are some suggestions.

At this stage of the game, I think you set down rules, it may be by way of letter, but don't engage your dd in discussion about what she has done wrong. There are a list of rules and consequences. Allowing her to vent about how the teacher is lying, every adult is stupid, etc. is pointless. She can get mad but it does not change the consequences. Let her vent to her friends, but you simply need to enforce the rules.

I would take driving away completely. When my dd was learning to drive, she was not allowed to challenge me while in the car about what I was asking her to do. Could she ask why? Certainly, but refusing to do something, no way. If she didn't like the way I was teaching her, the option was waiting until she was 18 when she didn't need parental consent to get a license. If I felt she was going to argue with me about what I was teaching her, that was simply a clue that she was not responsible enough to learn to drive. DS should be getting his later this year, but he knows if he does not have a 3.0 gpa he is not getting his license. That is just our rule, I am not saying you should apply it. However, driving is way too serious of an issue to be allowing your child to drive if you don't think they are doing it in a safe manner. And believe me, the test the state will give them to get their license (at least in CO) is not an accurate indication of whether they are good drivers.

Finally, pick and choose your battles. Kids do need to be able to exert some control. I no longer battle my kids about their rooms. They do not keep it to my standard, but it is their room. They are to spend 15 minutes each day picking up the game room, their bathroom, and their bedroom, but honestly, as long as the other rooms are picked up, I will go easy on the bedroom. However, when it gets to a point where I think it is beyond messy, I simply tell them you don't leave the house, watch TV, get on the internet, or whatever until the room is picked up to my standards. They then have control of what they want to do. How badly they want to go out is the motivating factor. I give them a list, x, y and z have to be done before you leave. Choose to do it or not, but that is the rule if you want to leave.

I know that saying all this to a child who is ready to be mad at the world, is not easy. Sometimes written letters are the best. I wish you the best.

sneezles

06-17-2006, 10:26 AM

I really just want to offer my sympathy...you really do have a disaster waiting to happen. I understand her anger but I think she must know that she just can't do or say what she wants when she wants, none of us can and really be an asset to the family structure or to society. The first thing I'd do is stop the driving lessons, period. This just seems to be fuel for your frustration and since she's not open to criticism then stopping that may ease some of the stress, for you, anyway.

luv2cook

06-17-2006, 10:47 AM

I wish I could say it was all about driving, but it's not. I've already taken it away once - when she broke my dont' argue with me rule. she didn't drive for a month. She's been driving sporadically. just this week I took it upon myself to push her to drive - I thought it would be a way for her to feel good about something in her life, something that she could see the results in.

I really, truly do try to pick my battles. i really do. But she's a hater. THat's a kid expression (for those of you who don't know it.)

This summer has been hard on her. She spent 3 weekends in May sulking. She quit her job but never got another one. We asked her if she wanted to go and she didn't. None of her "friends" are calling. When she had her cell phone (she lost it due to grades and failing 2 finals) I guess she was doing all the calling because since then, the phone hardly rings.

My DH and I struggle to find things for her to do, struggle to find things that will make her feel good. but I have to be honest, her behavior has been so bad, that I absolutely do NOT feel like doing anything for her. Don't even want to be around her at times.

She's not grateful for anything she has. nothing. she's jealous of everyone who has a Coach purse, drives and/or has their own car, certain clothes, etc.When i told her I met a girl in bootcamp that goes to St. Agnes (private school) her first words were, "Is she snotty?" she was actually a very sweet girl.

THe other thing that makes dealing w/her hard is she lives in her own reality. She spent so many years making herself sound better or making things better for herself, she struggles to see how things really are. The normal person would call it lying. I find that I don't trust anything she says regarding teachers. she convinces herself that it's a certain way and she'll maintain that course, no matter what it is, or she'll tell half the story.

Sneezles, whenever I tell her she shouldn't act/do/say something that I consider to be rude, inconsiderate, nasty, whatever, she says to me, "I don't care." I think she does care, but it's easier to act differently...

ChristieinMB

06-17-2006, 11:03 AM

Oh, I can't tell you how upset this thread makes me... My SIL is going through some of this. Stay strong, lay down the law, don't cater to her threats, she is very strong willed, she will thank you later, if you really teach her she cannot control her world.
MT DS was something like your DD, we finally, after high school, told him to move out, hardest thing we ever did, I literally didn't know for months if he was dead or alive. But he did come around. He also blamed everything on us, I felt bad for his low self esteem, in trying to help him I catered to him, my mistake.
Oh well, I'm rambling. Hang in there, stay strong, but don't argue, that is what she wants, when she drags you into an argument, she wins.
Don't yell, don't get angry, stay calm, tell her your rules... then go into your bedroom, and cry, alone. :)

tbb113

06-17-2006, 11:06 AM

I know that this situation is more than you and your DH bargained for when you agreed to take in this girl.

I hope that you are going to counseling as well to have a safe place to vent and to be given ideas on how to handle the situation.

Regarding communication...it is a teenage thing. Many times my sons will tell me that I'm not listening or that I don't understand. And they are partially right. I am listening but I'm not understanding what they are trying to say because they aren't communicating the problem. It isn't that they aren't verbal...its that what they are upset about isn't what we are talking about, it is something else entirely.

GingerPow

06-17-2006, 11:52 AM

((((((((((luv2cook & DD & family)))))))))

Sounds like a page from my book. DD was the teenager that you are now living with. (She has grown up to be a lovely young woman, there is hope).

We went to family counseling as well. It helps. There are coping strategies for all of you - a good therapist will help you find them, as well as delve into the source of her anger. Her anger is causing the low self esteem and acting out, and frankly I'm feeling she is depressed.

I don't know all the details of your situation, but I hope something I share with you helps.

These are the things that I found helpful:

~ Make reasonable rules and stick to them.
~ If you need to take things away from her to make your point, do so. She may earn them back.
~ Remember you & her dad are in charge. You pay the bills, you are the boss. (Remember these words: Benevolent Dictator)
~ Be firm and consistent.
~ Remain an adult, never get sucked into an argument and lose control. You can get serious, loud, firm, but stay in control. (I didn't say this is easy. :rolleyes: )
~ No name calling, violence, or demeaning comments from A N Y O N E.
~ Pay attention to her brothers and sisters, if you have other children. They tend to get lost in the shuffle when a family is going through this.
~ Let her know every single day that you love her. She will be convinced that you don't. Sometimes you will not like her at all, and it will be hard to feel that love. Say it anyway.
~ Hug her. Even if it feels like hugging a statue or she pushes you away. She needs her mother's hugs more than ever. The worse her behavior, the louder the signal that she needs unconditional love from you right now.
~ Go in your room and cry when it gets to be too much. It is hard to see your baby girl be this angry teenager, Mom. Allow yourself to miss that little girl that is hiding deep inside her.

Prayers to you all, you will get through this. All things are possible with love.

Terrytx

06-17-2006, 11:57 AM

I am reading this thread with great interest-luv2cook, you have described my my adopted 15 yo daughter and me to a tee. I understand your frustration :(

LakeMartinGal

06-17-2006, 12:17 PM

Hi, luv2cook -- I am in agreement with GingerPow! An additional tip might be to sit next to her when you are discussing (fighting?), because then your body language says that you are on the same side. Standing/sitting across can be construed as confrontational! I made it through 2 teenage girls... it isn't easy, but it can be done! (((((luv2cook))))) :)

Lauren

06-17-2006, 12:27 PM

Hugs to you ...

My DS#1 can be very challenging and I find I too quickly lose it and then our discussion takes a turn for the worse. I'm going to print GingerPow's suggestions.

acginkc

06-17-2006, 12:49 PM

((((Luv2cook)))

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I have to admit that at times I could be the same way to my DM that your DD is to you and your DH. The only insight I can give is some of my issues that I've realized as I've gotten older.

-If her self-esteem is low, she is not going to hear any compliments you give her. Make sure you give her compliments when deserved without any buts or suggestions.

-Understand it has less to do with the current problem and it is something much deeper. It could be to do with issues of being unloveable, abandonment or any number of things.

-My moms way of stopping my fits was to stop me in my tracks. If I started getting rude or disrespectful. She would take a deep breath and tell me that she refused to talk to me in this manner. If I wanted to be treated like an adult I needed to speak like one. If I wanted to act like a spoiled child, thats how I would be treated. She would then tell me that I could decide and if I wanted to talk to her I could come talk to her then. I would of course get about 10x as mad at that, but would eventually calm down and was better able to express what I was going through.

-Make sure that though her behavior may frustrate you and you don't love the behavior, that you have not stopped loving her. If she is at all afraid of being "left" she will do all she can to prove that you won't stay with her.

-If there is some way she feels like she can express herself, let her do it that way. Maybe writing, sports, drawing, painting, anything. For example if she likes to write, buy her a journal and leave it at that. Don't ask her what she wants to write or ask whats in it. Let her have that freedom and control. If she likes running, get a subscription to a running magazine, etc.

Once again, I am so sorry that you are having to go through this. Good luck to you all.

luv2cook

06-17-2006, 03:39 PM

I do believe that she is in a way pushing and being a brat to see if we will send her back. While I realize that, I can only take so much. The psychogist says that I should compliment her as much as I can about things and I try, I really do. But her I just can't compliment her on things that are awful - like her makeup.

I feel like I am very consistent. That's not something she's ever had. She can't wheedle her way into something. I try to say what I mean and do what I say. I always try to be a good example to her and do what needs to be done and I think because she can't find any fault in what I'm doing, she finds other things to pick on. Am I perfect, heck no. But when it comes to the core things, I feel like I do a darn good job.

She's that type of girl and at that stage right now where she worries about how she looks ALL the time. She's only interested in clothes, makeup & boys. Hiking? Heck, no. Art, reading, heck no. That's why it's been so hard trying to find things for her to do.

Today we ran some errands. We also needed to do some bra shopping. She's been wearing this hideous pushup thing that's broken and nasty and then wearing a sports bra on top of it for whatever reason. She looked stacked and packed and 3x the size she should be for her size. Not mention it hasn't been washed in months -ewwwww!

She's never had a bra that fit and so when she finally tried 2 on that actually fit in all the right places, she complained that they made her look small. I tried my hardest to explain to her that she has been used to 5 layers and gel and that no two bras fit the same. She was originally mad because I wouldn't allow her to try on the super padded push up bras. Trust me, she doesn't need the help. She's very, very, very unwilling to try anything new so you can imagine how fun that was. After finding one that fit in the right places, she didn't like it. I finally told her (very calmly, I might add) that she looked like a normal 17 y/o and she looked perfect, but she was the one who had to wear it and if she didn't like it, she didn't have to get it. <sigh> She said she'd "try it." Joy.

Then she had picked out all these clothes to try on. I let her try them on, but I really wasn't willing to buy her anything because she either sleeps in them, ruins them w/paint or makeup, doing gymnastics in them, whatever. So I told her that if she ruined these clothes I wasn't buying her another thing. I didn't let her get everything she picked out either. She wanted this expensive sweater thing, and I had her put back some other stuff to compensate. So I feel like we got that thing out of the way, but then I'm still not sure on what my role should be buying her stuff. I've always tried to link the clothes w/soemthing positive - good grades, helpful, whatever.

She's taking a preAP Geometry class in SS. If she pulls out a B, I will give her her cell phone back. That should make her very happy. I'm also hoping that cheerleading will be positive, too...

I have to go now - take her to her new job. I'll bet you she hates it after 2 weeks. We'll see.

juliew

06-17-2006, 04:31 PM

I just wanted to say how wonderful it is that you are trying so hard to help this girl. My step sister (10+ years younger than me) seems to be going through much the same things your girl is. I'm at a loss of what to do and unfortunately I don't think her mother helps any (they end up HITTING each other, often with Mom starting it! :eek: ) I can't even imagine the frustration you must be dealing with on a daily basis, but I pray that someday you will find all the turmoil has been worth it.

luv2cook

06-17-2006, 04:51 PM

end up HITTING each other, often with Mom starting it! )

Oh, the day THAT ever happened...

My DH and I do wonder if she'll continue down this path. We've told her that when she graduates from high school, she has two choices: College or move out and get a job. We've told her that she has to apply for scholarships because we haven't had 18 years to save up (and DH told me he's not spending his retirement to put her through).

She's a smart girl, but lazy and an underachiever. Her GPA right now is a 3. something. She's taking 3 AP classes next year. That's a whole separate issue. We don't feel like she's going to make it - she has refused time management help. Her pyschologist has said let her sink or swim - that I was way too involved in school and doing too much for her.

She's jumping from easy freshman classes to junior classes and cheerleading w/CL practice every day after school until 4:30. The reason she wants to take AP classes is because she wants to get away from the "lowlifes" and "losers" who don't do anything and just go becaues they have to. Her HS has boatload of low-income minority kids, 60% - and I've been there. After a year of dealing w/her teachers and their comments, I do believe her on this point. Plus I think the work will be more challenging for her and maybe she can find more decent friends, too. I'm hoping some that care about their future. So far the ones she's brought home haven't impressed me too much.

Just had another incident, fresh off the press. She apparently likes to put base on her eyelids. It caused a reaction where her eyes would not stop running and she won't go to work. She made a comment that a friend was supposed to visit her at work. I said, "who?" She said, "A friend." I said, "Does the friend have a name?" "A friend. you don't know them." So I said, "So is this someone i'm never going to meet? You just can't give me a name?" So then she starts on w/the why are you making a big deal out of it? you've been doing it all week. blah, blah, blah. I just didn't say another word and just ignored her.

pattyp.

06-17-2006, 05:25 PM

Who is in charge here?????????????????sounds like not the parents....who gave her all this power?? :confused:

acginkc

06-17-2006, 05:25 PM

luv2cook, I just want you to know that all your frustration is so understandable. And though I don't know the whole story behind your relationship with her, you and your DH are doing a wonderful job with a really tough situation. It sounds like you are both doing everything you can to help her, and thats so commendable. I shared my experience from growing up, not as a defense of her, but rather to help you see that you really aren't doing anything wrong. She is extremely lucky to have someone like you in her life. And if you need some support till the therapist is available please don't hesitate to PM me. I was a handful growing up and I think I've turned out okay. I definetly don't speak to my mom like that anymore :D. Good luck

Kathy B

06-17-2006, 07:06 PM

Her pyschologist has said let her sink or swim -

This sounds on track to me. I was thinking you might want to check for a "Tough Love" group in your area. It is a support group for parents of out of control teens. While your DD doesn't sound totally out of control (more like very difficult), you might benefit from some of their techniques which, from what I know of the group, are similar to your psychologist's suggestion.

Here is a link to their site...

Tough Love (http://www.toughlove.com/about_us.asp)

Wishing the best for you and your family.

emptyspool

06-17-2006, 09:31 PM

I love you.

Put it on Post it notes....put them everywhere. On her mirror, on her pillow, on her breakfast plate, on her lunch bag. EVERYWHERE.

You are the safe zone, you are where she can go crazy and be safe. Tell her you love her over and over.

DebGo

06-17-2006, 10:21 PM

sorry to hear you are going through all this. it's hard on your family and you especially. wish i could offer some words of wisdom or comfort... but i'm just struggling as is everyone else with trying to keep on top of my young DD's.

haven't heard anybody mention the "d" word... depression. (maybe someone did, i just perused the responses and didn't read the all of them).

it's a general term, i know.

probably overused as a rule this day and age.

but, sounds like it could apply in this instance.

have you thought about putting her on meds?

do you know if she is doing the other "d" word.. drugs?

well, i hope friday brings you peace of mind in your meeting with the psychologist.

hugs,
debbie

luv2cook

06-18-2006, 09:26 AM

funny you should mention the D word. Her psychologist has put it in her hands to either make the phone call and set up an appt. to talk to a psychiatrist or talk to me about it. she, so far, has done neither.

I personally feel like she has situational depression - doesn't like where she is right now and wants things to be different but doesn't have the tools to get there. Also, i have doubts about her taking the meds consistently if the psychiatrist does prescribe them. she gripes about taking Tylenol...

luv2cook

06-18-2006, 09:37 AM

Who is in charge here?????????????????sounds like not the parents....who gave her all this power??

I'm not really sure here what the intent of this is???

Beth

06-18-2006, 01:22 PM

I think there is a power struggle -- along with other issues, but perhaps pattyp doesn't realize the situation. You've referred to her as "my kid," which is commendable, but it's not like you've had a lot of years together to shape those roles. Not to mention that the roles changed, and that may have been a shock to her system too.

It's hard enough to parent a kid that you've had from day one. They will all challenge you, your patience and your fortitude. All teens have the capacity to push buttons and cause more grief. One who has had a less than optimal circumstances to begin with just adds more challenges.

I wouldn't jump on depression -- not in a clinical, always need medication sense, but certainly there is frustration and probably some anger. Also sounds like she has a lot of insecurity and self esteem issues. From what I remember you telling me about her background, all those things are understandable. Understanding is the easier part -- breaking the cycle and getting her to buy in -- willingly or unknowingly, is the harder part.

I can tell you that one of my sons got overwhelmed with consequences and using escalating consequences just made things worse and confirmed his poor self esteem. We had to retool with him -- wipe the slate clean (still had consequences, but he knew that tomorrow was a new day and we weren't running a tally or counting strikes) and reinforce all the good things. We had to talk about choices made, lessons learned and growth experiences, reminding him that we loved him and were proud of him at every opportunity while reminding him that he had to accept the responsibility for his actions. Not that there aren't consequences for actions -- just that we modified gthe way we dealt with them.

It's been working pretty well, but this has been discovery and growth for all of us over a 2-3 year period or more. It's a lot harder when you have to start with a teen. The stakes are a lot higher, the need for maturity even more immediate and the emotions a lot more intense.

Have you tried talking to her -- reminding her that she is with you in the first place because you care about her -- that this is a choice for you? Let her know you care and believe in her no matter what disappointments she has had. Let her know that her time with you should be an opportunity for her to take charge and do more for herself. Remind her that past situations are not her responsibility, but what she does with her future is all about her.

She probably saw you differently before and is also trying to deal with the fact that now you have this parental role -- talk about it. Let her know that the less she needs a parent, the more you can support her differently. If she wants that, but she's going to have to earn it. Remind her that when someone gives her a priviledge or an opportunity, the responsibility for knowing what to do with it is all hers. If she in uncertain, needs help or overwhelmed, then she can talk to you or another trusted person.

She may also be concerned that you could dump her -- easy come, easy go, because you're not a parent. Let her know you're not going away, but you aren't going to let her ruin your futures along with hers.

I'm probably rambling, but what more point -- when you talk to her, LISTEN. Really listen, even actively asking open questions about what she wants, what she thinks and feels, what she's most afraid of and what would be the worst thing if that fear came to pass -- and how she would deal with it. Let her get explore her feelings and to get them out so they can be dealt with. If you can do that without engaging -- just setting aside all other issues for a while so you can ask and she can talk, she may hear herself or even see and hear things she hasn't been able to get a grip on. If nothing else, if you can get her to talk beyond "whatever" you might get insights that will help you deal with the whole situation.

Good luck. I still have those teen years ahead, and the fear of them has been a motivating factor in trying to get the earlier years right -- or at least the best we could. I feel for anyone who jumps right into them -- especially when you have to deal with someone else's cracked foundation.

sneezles

06-18-2006, 01:26 PM

Who is in charge here?????????????????sounds like not the parents....who gave her all this power?? :confused:

It's fairly obvious from your remarks that you aren't aware of the history here but regardless I find your post offensive and very unhelpful. :(

mcraig13

06-18-2006, 03:10 PM

I think that the thoughts on depression are worth looking into. Would an anxiety disorder also be a possibility?

Our DD, now 19, was diagnosed with anxiety disorder when she was 13. In middle school she started acting like a complete crazy person. Everything was an argument and caused a tantrum. She was not doing as well in school either. When it got to the point that she would literally throw herself on the floor during an argument we decided to get some help.

She had a complete psychological...testing for ADD, etc. It was finally determined that she had a mild non-verbal learning disability and anxiety disorder. We were told that the outbursts..which only happened around family...were actually her way of telling us that she could not cope with a particular situation.

She went through cognitive behavior therapy which made a big difference. Before therapy she would not even order at a fast-food restaurant. The biggest difference was probably because we all knew what was going on...both she, us, and her sister.

She still struggles with this...but as of now she has not had to resort to meds.

So, I think that sometimes things are not exactly as they seem...and maybe your DD is struggling with things that don't even seem to have anything to do with what she is saying and doing.

I hope that made some sense.

luv2cook

06-19-2006, 01:44 PM

We had to talk about choices made, lessons learned and growth experiences, reminding him that we loved him and were proud of him at every opportunity while reminding him that he had to accept the responsibility for his actions.
I have tried this. Maybe I'm not saying it in the right way. Every time I try to bring up experiences that happend in the past - not 5 years ago - she gets totally bent out of shape over it and then says things like, "This is why I don't tell you anything" or "Why do you keep bringing up stuff in the past?" To that one I reply, "Experience."

She may also be concerned that you could dump her -- easy come, easy go, because you're not a parent. Let her know you're not going away, but you aren't going to let her ruin your futures along with hers. Yeah, we told her that we weren't going to send her back except for a few certain things. But sometimes I really feel like (esp. in May) that she was trying to get us to send her back - almost in a backdoor kind of way. It's hard to tell. She also seems to self-sabatoge herself. I'm not sure how to address that one.

Just now, I went into her room. SHe's laying on the bed watching TV. I said to her, Are you planning on re-working your Geometry homework so you can get an A? (her teacher this a.m. said she wasn't getting an A) If she makes a C for the semester, she owes us $200 for the class.) She's like, Ohhh. (Like she forgot.) I said, you have gymastics tonight and laundry to do. She's like, oh, that's tonight? duh. I also mentioned in the car this a.m. that w/her final on Wed., she's working Tues., night, how is she going to study? But now, lucky kid, I can't imagine they'd do the final Wed. because there was no school today - found out AFTER I dropped her off!

So here, I've reminded her. It's in her hands what she does with it. Also, she's not working on her cheerleading stuff. I asked her if she wanted to go to the gym with me. She said no. She's not stretching, working out. She's not going to make competition cheer w/what she's doing. She knows it but she's not doing anything about it.

I've also delicately told her that I am concerned about continuing to pay for gymnastics when she's doing nothing to get stronger. Her coach has told her she has to workout and practice. Not doing it.

You say you start the slate clean every day. With everything? I try really hard to not hold things against her and let a lot of stuff go. Most of the time, she refuses to accept responsibility for even the smallest thing. That's one of the reasons my DH and I made the decision that she's not driving or having a car. Maybe in a year. I still feel like I need to keep her close.

I think that the thoughts on depression are worth looking into. Would an anxiety disorder also be a possibility

Well, K has the number for the psychiatrist. Our psychologist has put the ball in her court to come to me. As far as the anxiety, yes, she does worry about things. The psychologist says she obsesses over the smallest things...the pyschologits's thought, even tho she's not big on drugs, if she went on it for a while, to lift her up for a bit so that she would be more willing to work on some things, it might be beneficial...

My Dh and I can't meet with her this week - she's out of the office until Friday. I forgot that DH was on vacay this week. I'll see if we can do a double appt. (altho they frown on this - which I think is stupid, but I won't go there.)

How much do I push and when do I back off? This part is very frustrating to me. She's so lazy.

badunnin

06-19-2006, 02:01 PM

Let me preface this by saying that although I don't have kids, I do teach high school, and took all the adolescent development and psychology courses, as well as dealing with 150 of them on a daily basis, trying to get them to do something (namely learning, although it can be as basic as sitting in a chair) that they don't want to do.

As far as having the number for the psychiatrist, she likely won't use it. A teenage brain isn't developed enough to make the connections like that - they don't have the experiences to see that there are lows, and then, eventually, they become highs again, that it's the natural cycle of life. Back in early April one of my students committed suicide. A friend of mine called it a "bad choice on his part." Umm, no. He didn't know that he had the choice to call a doctor, to seek help. His brain couldn't make the connection between making the call and things getting better. It's possible that in his 14 year old brain, things had never been bad before, and he didn't know that, given time, it would most likely get better. With K, things, in her mind, haven't gotten better, things have never been good. Why should the future be any different? Why should she try when she's just going to fail?

As far as when to push, sometimes it's a matter of how you ask/tell them. You asked her today if she was planning on doing her homework. To me, that's poorly worded. Reminds me of when my mother used to ask as I came downstairs "you're not wearing that, are you?" Umm, clearly I am. Tell her that she needs to shut the TV off and do her homework. At the kitchen table. Let her know that you care about her, and want to treat her like an adult, but as long as she acts like a child, she will be treated like a child. Remind her that children don't get to make choices, like what clothes they will wear. Don't bring up stuff from her past if you know it triggers her! Give her a task, a time limit, and a consequence for not doing it. Don't ask it in the form of a question, and don't fight with her. By continuing to argue, you are engaging her, giving her what she wants.

If you've mentioned the connection between how you feel about paying for gymnastics and her not practicing, make that be a consequence. Tell her that for every week she doesn't stretch, doesn't practice between sessions, she owes you half the fee for the week.

You: I need you to take a half hour now to work on your geometry. (period) If you don't, you won't be able to do X this weekend. (Walk away)

Kids want power, but they don't know how to get it, and they don't know how to use it responsibly. This is a power struggle, and although I don't necessarily agree with how PattyP phrased it, you have given her power that you should have - it's your house, and she's your responsibility. It's time to take back that power. She has to earn it back from you by showing that she can handle it and that she is mature enough.

tbb113

06-19-2006, 02:12 PM

I had a whole big answer typed up and the computer ate it :( So let's try again but shorter.

Don't bring up the past if all it does is cause an argument. It isn't working....find a different way to get through to her

I'm glad you told her that she could stay with you no matter what. She needs to know that she has an advocate that loves and cares for her even when she isn't being loveable. In a way, it is a compliment that she acts out with you. She feels secure enough in you and your DH that she can be 'bad' and still be loved.

Her grades and her cheer are up to her to maintain. From previous posts...you have pointed you that she is doing well in classes, so she is capable of doing the work. I can't help you on this point...since my older son drives me crazy with his attitude towards school (classic underachiver). I have told him that it is his future and his choices and once the doors close behind them...they may not re-open. He has 3 classes he needs to remediate before he applies to college this fall. He understands now that he may have no choice but community college since a 4 year college may not want him due to his grades.

She doesn't seem lazy to me. She is in summer school, working part time, and taking gymnastics. What more do you want from her? I can tell that she isn't self-motivated...but IMO most teenagers aren't.

luv2cook

06-19-2006, 02:34 PM

She doesn't seem lazy to me. She is in summer school, working part time, and taking gymnastics. What more do you want from her? I can tell that she isn't self-motivated...but IMO most teenagers aren't.
She's in summer school because in her previous life she screwed off and flunked two grades and was a 17 y/o freshman this past year. The school's concern was it's harder to keep kids in school once they reach 18, plus K wants to be a junior more than anything and is willing to go - just not work hard enough to achieve the grades that we expect and know she is capable of. Esp. since we don't have to pay for summer school. GYnmastics is another luxury that we're paying for. I have no problem paying for it, but she's not doing a darn thing to improve herself and to achieve what she wants - a back handspring. Short of dragging her to the gym literally... :rolleyes:

Let her know that you care about her, and want to treat her like an adult, but as long as she acts like a child, she will be treated like a child Gosh, so many little details I forget. We have a deal going right now. She complained to psyc. that we were too much in her face and she wanted to do stuff herself - ie., school. We have a deal that we won't make her sit at the table and do her stuff, etc., that she has an opportunity to show us that she can be responsible to make the grades w/out us micromanaging her.
You: I need you to take a half hour now to work on your geometry. (period) If you don't, you won't be able to do X this weekend. (Walk away)
i can't wait to try this when I have something I can take away from her. Right now, there is nothing, nada. She is not going out, has no plans.

There's so much negativity. That's what I would like to change. We're stil talking in session about the fact that she can't do her chores and her attitude.I mean, that's the same thing since day one. She has an opportunity this summer to show us that she can do it.

AND whenever I try to bring up something like how she's not helping out or taking care of her business and I start citing examples, she denies it. Anything negative she denies. I dont' care if it's written in ink! How do you get around THAT? :confused: :eek: :mad:

badunnin

06-19-2006, 02:38 PM

i can't wait to try this when I have something I can take away from her. Right now, there is nothing, nada. She is not going out, has no plans.

There's so much negativity. That's what I would like to change. We're stil talking in session about the fact that she can't do her chores and her attitude.I mean, that's the same thing since day one. She has an opportunity this summer to show us that she can do it.

AND whenever I try to bring up something like how she's not helping out or taking care of her business and I start citing examples, she denies it. Anything negative she denies. I dont' care if it's written in ink! How do you get around THAT? :confused: :eek: :mad:

Every kid has a currency. Find out what hers is.

Re the negativity - I completely understand. So give her a reward. If she is carrying an A at midterm in geometry, she gets a new sweater for the fall, or a chic pair of jeans. Give her goals, starting small, with small rewards. I can imagine she hasn't seen much success in her life - make her feel successful.

Once again - don't argue with her! Don't cite examples! It may make her feel like a failure. No-one likes to have their shortcomings thrown back in their face. You've stated it, so stop there.

BTW, you are doing a *fabulous* job. :D

Meganator

06-19-2006, 02:51 PM

AND whenever I try to bring up something like how she's not helping out or taking care of her business and I start citing examples, she denies it. Anything negative she denies. I dont' care if it's written in ink! How do you get around THAT? :confused: :eek: :mad:

My sympathies are with you - this is obviously an extremely difficult and stressful situation.

I agree that it is best not to bring up triggers that are just going to cause arguments, but on the other hand, it is difficult to ignore denials of fact, and maybe not the best for her to let her keep living in her own reality in that respect. When she denies that she hasn't done her chores, even if you give examples, what happens if you say "ok, tell me which chores you have done" or something like that?

With respect to your agreement that she has an opportunity to get good grades without you micromanaging - is the deal that you just wait and see what her final grade is, or can you say she has broken the deal based on interim grades? It sounds like her progress in this class so far isn't promising, and doesn't bode well for a good final grade - which has repercussions regarding classes she can take in the fall, etc.

Even if the psychologist said the ball is in her court with respect to making the call, I just don't see a teenager being that proactive. I would venture to say that many teenagers without any of the special issues here is still not going to do a lot of stuff without being told to - like study when they could be watching TV.

Good luck,
Megan

luv2cook

06-19-2006, 04:42 PM

With respect to your agreement that she has an opportunity to get good grades without you micromanaging - is the deal that you just wait and see what her final grade is, or can you say she has broken the deal based on interim grades? It sounds like her progress in this class so far isn't promising, and doesn't bode well for a good final grade - which has repercussions regarding classes she can take in the fall, etc

Well, right now w/ Geo., I have communication w/her teacher. If she starts to go downward, I will step in. So far she's at the bottom of her class -- with a B! (It's a preAp class) (82) If she pulls a B out for the semester which ends Wed or Thurs (don't know now because of the rain) I was planning on giving her cell phone back as a reward.

I would venture to say that many teenagers without any of the special issues here is still not going to do a lot of stuff without being told to - like study when they could be watching TV. Oh, I agree. BUT this is a kid that had absolutely no guidance, no "good, consistent" discipline, who never had anyone watch over her. By the end of her pitiful existence w/her dirt bag low life scumsucking POS father, she was doing what she wanted when she wanted. So anything that remotely resembles accountability she resents. (Altho I have to say she's become accepting of a lot) but that trust wall is still HUGE.

One of my biggest struggles is making her feel successful. I tell her all the time how smart she is, that her hair looks nice and every now and then her makeup looks decent. I tell her what great organziational skills she has (when she uses them) but other than that...there's just not a whole lot :(

She also behaves very badly whenever in new situations or environments. Do you think she'll ever adjust? She was horrible on the cruise we took.

pattyp.

06-19-2006, 05:18 PM

I guess I didn't take in account that there was a past history here. I'm sorry if this is the case. What I meant is that a kid doesn't wake up at 17 and become a brat. They work on it from an early age and get away with as much as they can. I see one of my daughters with a 6 year old being tested and hear the anxiety in her voice. I know how wearing it can be, I raised 4 daughters and teenage girls are in a class by themselves. I feel for you and think you had some good advice. I hope you have some of your pressing questions taken care of on Friday. You will be in my prayers.

doggerham

06-19-2006, 05:23 PM

Not to make light of your situation, but I wonder if there's a reality show in the making along the lines of Supernanny? The Teen Whisperer?

Anyhow, you've gotten a lot of good advice here. And do come to vent, sometimes that's the most helpful!

boisewinesnob

06-19-2006, 05:51 PM

Whenever she doesn't get her way or she's asked to do something she doesn't want to do, she flies off the handle. Her hackles go up, she's ready to fight about it. I mean, she starts talking like a 12 y/o, she raises her voice, she starts mouthing off about anythign and everything, shifting the blame, saying that I'm this or that; and then if the situation permits, will stomp off. She runs away from something every single time. now, that would be fine if it was occasionally, but she does it all the time. She doesn't want to talk about anything if it doesn't go her way. If you don't agree with her, it's over.

Hmmmm. I know a person over 60 who acts like this :rolleyes:

But seriously, I have been a parent to a kid who had issues with authority. In many ways he still does but is getting a little better as he grows up. It's really hard to be a parent to kids like this because you just want to strangle them!!!
I hope things will improve for you.

luv2cook

06-19-2006, 07:31 PM

Chefzhat

06-19-2006, 07:52 PM

oh, is it normal for teenagers to act like they don't know you?

Very normal. They'll know you again after they turn 20. :D

I'm sorry you're having trouble - what a situation. Is she medicated at all? Oppositional disorder? Depression? I can't remember, and I skimmed the posts and didn't see anything.

Debie

luv2cook

06-19-2006, 07:54 PM

Not yet. Personally, I'm against it. She's perfectly fine when she's around other people doing things and busy...

Becky13347

06-19-2006, 07:59 PM

I am so sorry to hear about your problems. I don't know all the history here with this girl...obviously there's alot. But I was wondering about her trust issues? If she has some issues/problems with trust, it may be safer for her to push you all away than risk getting hurt by trusting you.

What I mean is she may be trying to protect herself with all this anger. If she keeps people at a distance then she doesn't have to risk being hurt. If she has been repeatedly let down by those she should be able to trust...it will be easier for her to guarantee your anger/"being sent away" if she causes it herself...then she knows what is coming (ie your possible rejection) and she is controling that rejection versus if she risks trusting someone and gets hurt by it she is not controlling that type of rejection.

Sorry if I am rambling and hope I was somewhat clear. Good luck at the doctor, I hope things get clarified.

Becky

Chefzhat

06-19-2006, 08:00 PM

Oh. So then what was her problem on the cruise?

~~edit~~
nevermind, I figured it out! :D

I hope that you get it worked out. I work with kids like this all the time, but they are living in group home. It's hard. Very very hard.

Debie

Terri_A

06-19-2006, 08:11 PM

Not yet. Personally, I'm against it. She's perfectly fine when she's around other people doing things and busy...

I just wanted to add that sometimes people who suffer from depression are very good at putting on a happy face in situations where they feel it's expected. I've battled major depressive disorder since my teen years, and I can usually put on a pretty good act when I need to, but when alone or with people I feel safe with - I have been pretty bad at times. Without the help of meds...I don't know where I'd be.

jmarie

06-19-2006, 08:13 PM

But seriously, I have been a parent to a kid who had issues with authority. In many ways he still does but is getting a little better as he grows up.

What Suzy said. Some kids seem to sail through their teenage years. (But then we don't know what goes on behind closed doors, do we? :eek:)

Other's seem to hit that wall of adolescence and just continually bounce off of it. And hit it and bounce off it and it never seems like they are going to break through. But then suddenly , one day, there will be a reversal of attitude, and then back stepping, and then one foot forward and then four back. But they gradually, slowly, eventually, most of the time, get there. It just takes some kids longer than others.

I told a kindergartner, one time when he kept getting red dots that it takes some kids longer than others to figure things out and he said "Will you tell my dad that?"

Just hang in there and remember not to sweat the small stuff. (Easier said than done.) Oh and about them acting like they don't know you....
Oh, yeah.... :cool:

Take a deep breath......S_L_O_W_L_Y Exhale.

Joyce

Angelina

06-19-2006, 08:33 PM

Tonight at gymnastics, she sucked. I mean, what does she expect? She doesn't workout, doesn't practice and she's telling me on the way home about this other girl in there who hasn't gotten any better since she's been coming and the coach doesn't bother to say anything to her anymore.
If I hadn't been driving, I would have fallen out of my chair! :eek: I wanted to say, are you talking about yourself? cripes. I was there.

I plan on printing out this thread and highlighting stuff. I want to take some of it to the counseling session on Friday - provided she has the time.

oh, is it normal for teenagers to act like they don't know you? After I dropped her off, I went to PetsMart. Class hadn't started yet and she was talking to this girl (that she's jealous of, 16, dl & 4runner) and she acted like she didn't know me and then dropped her shoes and went to her class!

I wouldn't print this if I were you...and I would make very sure she never reads this. I'm sorry, I am probably the only one here who thinks this way, but the way you talk about her awakens the long-ago teenager in me as well!

I am sure you love her and care about her, and that you are trying your hardest and she has some issues she needs to work through, but what I sense from you is a lot of negativity as well. If my mother told everyone I sucked I would be CRUSHED. And that is keeping in mind that I get along with her wonderfully. When you already have problems with her, do you really want to show her a thread where you tell the world how lazy she is? Her "pitiful" life? I know you don't mean it that way, but guess which way she is going to interpret that. And do not bring up past history with her. Do not helpfully point out to her all the ways she is failing. You say you compliment her on her makeup which, once in a blue moon, looks decent. But remember to tell her she is a good person, that you love her, that you have faith in her and that you trust her...even though from you write she sounds like the worst teenager on Earth.

Go ahead, throw the tomatoes, flame me, whatever. I don't know the behind the scenes history, I know nothing. I only know what you are writing, and it doesn't look pretty. :(

Angela

Beth

06-19-2006, 08:52 PM

Sorry -- haven't been around.

No -- I didn't mean it's all new everyday. More that we didn't allow things to ratchet up the way his school's no tolerance, escalating consequences policy was turning really minor things into detention and the threat of alternative schooling -- over really minor things and for a 6 or 7 yr old! I put my foot down and told them I would withdraw him and home school before I would let that happen. It didn't, but it wasn't easy to turn it around either.

Like I said, a teen is different. I think my point is more along the lines of Badunnin's 3:38 post. Don't keep pulling the past into it. Deal with each situation on it's own merits and focus on what is learned, where she has grown and get her to focus on what she can do better. The commono point is that if everything bad keeps coming back, it can become more than you can deal with -- it's oppressive.

It also sounds like your are seeing her very negatively right now. And a lot of what you are complimenting her on is appearance or stuff that isn't really about who she is, not substance. That may not be helping her feel better about who she is, what she wants or her ability to get it. I know it's hard not to sometimes, but you really need to help her explore her dreams, her talents and her abilities so she can turn on the good side -- and hopefully the motivation at some point. You're going to have to find it together -- and maybe with some serious help.

She hasn't had this -- nor have you. It's hard -- gut wrenching hard sometimes -- even when you've had everyday of their lives to lead up to where you are at a given moment. Hang in there!

badunnin

06-19-2006, 09:36 PM

I wouldn't print this if I were you...and I would make very sure she never reads this. I'm sorry, I am probably the only one here who thinks this way, but the way you talk about her awakens the long-ago teenager in me as well!

I am sure you love her and care about her, and that you are trying your hardest and she has some issues she needs to work through, but what I sense from you is a lot of negativity as well. If my mother told everyone I sucked I would be CRUSHED. And that is keeping in mind that I get along with her wonderfully. When you already have problems with her, do you really want to show her a thread where you tell the world how lazy she is? Her "pitiful" life? I know you don't mean it that way, but guess which way she is going to interpret that. And do not bring up past history with her. Do not helpfully point out to her all the ways she is failing. You say you compliment her on her makeup which, once in a blue moon, looks decent. But remember to tell her she is a good person, that you love her, that you have faith in her and that you trust her...even though from you write she sounds like the worst teenager on Earth.

Go ahead, throw the tomatoes, flame me, whatever. I don't know the behind the scenes history, I know nothing. I only know what you are writing, and it doesn't look pretty. :(

Angela

I completely agree. It's fine to look for advice and to vent. Just as I would never print out emails between parents and myself to show to my students, I would never even mention this to her.

Beth

06-19-2006, 10:37 PM

No -- don't print it.

What you say can and will be held against you.

Even worse if she is dealing with self-esteem issues.

GingerPow

06-20-2006, 05:45 AM

I told a kindergartner, one time when he kept getting red dots that it takes some kids longer than others to figure things out and he said "Will you tell my dad that?"
Joyce
Aw, poor little guy. Sounds like you were very sweet with him, Joyce.

GingerPow

06-20-2006, 05:57 AM

I wouldn't print this if I were you...and I would make very sure she never reads this. I'm sorry, I am probably the only one here who thinks this way, but the way you talk about her awakens the long-ago teenager in me as well!

Go ahead, throw the tomatoes, flame me, whatever. I don't know the behind the scenes history, I know nothing. I only know what you are writing, and it doesn't look pretty. :(

Angela
No, you are not the only one who thinks this way. I'll be right in the line of tomato fire with you, Angela.

I do not believe in name calling. You cannot build a child up by tearing them down.

Are you letting loose & venting here, luv2cook, or do you say these things to her? I know how frustrating dealing with a difficult teenager can be. You need a friend to discuss this with, or even a therapist yourself. Raising a teenager can be one of the most difficult things any of us will ever do. It is also one of the most important.

Please do not print this thread out and push it at her to read - she will feel betrayed. The counselor will have no use for this either. I have written to you here for your benefit, not to provide ammo to toss at your girl.

Teenagers look mature on the outside, but on the inside they are confused children. The more negative experiences they have in their younger years the more confused they are in their teens. She needs to feel loved and safe, and you are the person who needs to make her feel that way.

I'm praying for her, for you and the family.

donnamp14

06-20-2006, 06:24 AM

You've gotten some good advice here. Hang in there. Have you taken a look at this book: "The Explosive Child : A New Approach for Understanding and Parenting Easily Frustrated, Chronically Inflexible Children" (Paperback) It's about $11 on amazon, and really an interesting read. Counter-intuitive but it may give you some different perspectives.

All the best. Pray for strength.

-Donna

HDgirl

06-20-2006, 06:53 AM

I know what you are going through. I lived it with my DD for several years. Reading through this thread brought back all the pain/hurt/anger that we had to deal with. I knew why she was acting out but I couldn't make her father be a father. She took all her anger at him out on myself and DH=.

I did everything I could to help her get through it. My family helped too. It was a long haul but she is finally the person I knew she could be. I am very proud of her.

Just keep being there for her.

Good luck.

Chefzhat

06-20-2006, 07:02 AM

No, you are not the only one who thinks this way. I'll be right in the line of tomato fire with you, Angela.

FWIW, the OP is just venting here. I don't believe she meant that she was going to print this thread for K to read. So please don't misunderstand her. She also wasn't telling K she "sucked", just that her peformance at the gym that day "sucked", and she only told us, not the girl.

Just wanted to point that out.

Laura

06-20-2006, 07:07 AM

luv2cook

06-20-2006, 07:09 AM

No -- don't print it. Cripes, you guys. I never had any intention of telling her anything about this or printing it for HER to read. I was referring to myself and chezhat read it correctly.

badunnin

06-20-2006, 07:11 AM

Cripes, you guys. I never had any intention of telling her anything about this or printing it for HER to read. I was referring to myself and chezhat read it correctly.

Sorry that we misunderstood. You stated that you wanted to print it, highlight and take it to therapy on Friday....

luv2cook

06-20-2006, 07:13 AM

and take it to therapy on Friday.... Nope. I wanted to take ideas and thoughts with me to therapy. Sometimes when you're in there, it's easy to get sidetracked on things and if I ahd some notes, I could actually discuss what I want to. I can't tell yo how many times I've walked out of there and then remembered something I wanted to deal with. But sometimes you have to go w/the flow in there, too. Gotta go to work

GingerPow

06-20-2006, 07:57 AM

FWIW, the OP is just venting here. I don't believe she meant that she was going to print this thread for K to read. So please don't misunderstand her. She also wasn't telling K she "sucked", just that her peformance at the gym that day "sucked", and she only told us, not the girl.

Just wanted to point that out.
Well that's good. I also read that to mean that this would be shared with all at the counselor's office.

The most important thing is to get this girl through her difficult teen years and grow into the young woman she was born to be, and for Luv2cook to get through it with most of her marbles intact. You do feel like you just can't take another minute of it sometimes. (Most of the marbles do return eventually!)
Brighter days are ahead.

clairea

06-20-2006, 08:03 AM

I don't have teenagers, and I don't teach them, so I am not remotely qualified to address those issues. You have gotten a lot of suggestions that I am going to file away for when my kids are older, though.

Since the issues of anxiety and depression seem to be coming up quite a bit, and I do have a lot of experience with those issues both with one of my children and with another family member, I will chime in on that. First, as others have mentioned I don't think that she will take the initiative to contact a psychiatrist herself. Even adults frequently have trouble acknowledging that they need this kind of help, and these illnesses themselves make it even more difficult for the people who suffer from them to see and take the necessary steps to obtain help. I cannot imagine that a teenager is likely to have the maturity to be able to do this. Also, you mentioned that she is perfectly fine when she is around other people and doing things/busy. As another poster mentioned, many people who suffer from anxiety and depression are very adept at "putting on a good face" in front of other people. Also, depression does affect adolescents differently than adults, and one of the significant differences is that teenagers symptoms often show an improved mood around friends (and do not show a decreased level of interest in social activities). Also, in children and teens the mood disturbance frequently does show up more as irritability than sadness.

I think you are doing an amazing job in a tough situation. Keep coming here for support whenever you need it. Hopefully you also have some understanding local friends and maybe a therapist of your own that can help out in person too.

Curiosity Hears

06-20-2006, 11:04 AM

Luv2cook you are an amazing woman. What you are taking on and doing for this K is truly a beautiful thing. You should give yourself a lot of well deserved credit.

From what I am reading here, you have no children of your own and are still finding yourself in a situation where it is up to you and your dh to try to step up to the plate and be k's advocate. It is natural for you to feel both frustrated at times and totally angry at the "adults" who should have been doing the right thing. It is okay for you to feel this way. You do your best to keep these feelings separate from your feelings for K but when she acts so ungrateful and entitled it just gets your goat (and she knows it), it isn't easy. Deep down k is simply terrified that she doesn't deserve yours and dh's love and protection and even deeper she is even more frightened that this too will vanish like so much hope of her past. I know you already know this. There will be a day when she will thank you.

Here are my concern which I have not yet seen addressed directly. I am very concerned about your therapist professional. This person above all else should know K is very unlikely to be mature enough to make this phone call so why is he/she pushing the responsibilty onto her. It is just one more pressure and set up for her to fail and for it to be her fault because she did not make the call. Furthermore, I really don't understand how a true caring professional could possibly put a family in crisis off for a week. Have you and your dh thought about looking into another professional. It is extremely important that the therapist/psychologist/psychiatrist be someone K feels comfortable enough and safe enough to start opening herself up to.

Wishing you the best.

luv2cook

06-20-2006, 12:40 PM

This person above all else should know K is very unlikely to be mature enough to make this phone call so why is he/she pushing the responsibilty onto her. It is just one more pressure and set up for her to fail and for it to be her fault because she did not make the call. Furthermore, I really don't understand how a true caring professional could possibly put a family in crisis off for a week.

Her responsibility is to talk to me about it. K is very closed and doesn't communicate or does half a job of it. E.G., she said right as we pulled into the driveway one day that Laura (psych.) said that she needed medication and needed to see a psychiatrist. Uhh...that's not what Laura said. Laura said she asked her if she felt depressed, they talked about it and Laura said that she could give her a referral to a psychiatrist but only the doctor could determine whether or not she felt like K needed medication; it was not a sure thing. I will discuss this further on Friday.

The reason that I have to wait until this friday is that Laura is changing positions. She's actually resigning from her current position and going contract. She has accepted a job at a school working with autistic children and will do contract work for the center where we go. She's actually out of the office and I really, truly feel like it would be a waste to try and talk to someone else. K is extremely judgmental w/people and unaccepting and trying to "talk" to someone else right now would be a mistake.

My "crisis" when I posted this was that I was wanting a way to get past all the BS and learn to communicate because I felt like things were constantly going downhill and it was driving me crazy. I mean, my hair is even starting to fall out again which is what stress does to me.

I really do want to build her up whenever I can. Right now is a particularly bad time. I mean, she's just not doing anything but school 6 days a week (Mon.-Thurs. 7:30 to 3:00) and Sat/Sun 1-4. All the rest of that is free time for her and it's her opportunity to do things.

I really want to sit her down and say, K, you're not going to get better at your jumps if you don't practice them. They won't come to you through osmosis. K, if you don't start running and/or working out, you're going to die the first day of cheerleading practice (which the coach has said). She has a program and she's not following it. K doesn't want any help. None on anything. I've tried talking to her about it, and she stops me and says, remember, this is my thing. My DH has offered to train her 3x a week. Nope.
Part of my concern is she's never really had to work for anything - everything's come easy to her. I'm concerned that she doesn't know what hard work is and how to go about achieving something.

I really feel like she has more frustration a lot of times than anger. She doesn't know how to deal with that - like this morning when she didn't feel she was dressed right for work.

BTW, she pretty much refuses to speak to her father. She calls him by his first name. He's mentioned to my mother several times (he's living w/her since he was evicted 6 mos. ago - duh - that's what happens when you're unemployed for 2 years and don't look for a job) that he would like to come down the next time she comes. Uh, she doesn't want to see him. She barely spoke to him at Christmas. Doesn't call for bday or father's day. I know she's angry, but what do I say the next time he wants to come visit??? :eek:
NOt to mention the fact that I can't stand him and I'm still angry with him for not allowing me to take K when she was 12. I knew where she was going and sure enough, 4 years later...

kima

06-20-2006, 02:14 PM

I am the mother of two daughters one of whom was very difficult as a teen. I

It seems to me that you trying too hard with her. With the relationship between you the way it is a negative pattern has set in. I really wonder about you doing things like teaching her to drive and going bra shopping with her. I learned that those were just the kinds of touchy situations that would set off conflict.
What I learned to do was to back off and let other people take on more of those roles. Pay for driving lessons (not sure if you just take her out for practice or are teaching her yourself but both shpould be avoided) and don't go shopping with her! Trust her to buy the right things- if she doesn't , she doesn't.

It seems like you are micro managing her life-let her make some decisions and let her suffer the consequences. I coach teens in a sport on a daily basis. I always tell the parents to let me handle the coaching issues (attendance, effort, attitude) I can be the bad guy there.

I know I sounds critical and I don't mean to-I think you are an amazingly loving and caring person.
The time has come though to deligate out roles- let the school deal with education issues, the coach with her gymnastics and let her suffer with the consequences of her actions.She will put two and two together given the time and space to do it. Every time you lecture at her she goes in the other direction.
Be there for her when she reaches out to you and back off on the rest of the stuff. I know how **** hard that is but I also know it works. She has tuned you out and only hears the same old negativity (even if only in her head).

Anyway I wish you all the best and I know things can work out. My daughter is one of the most amazing and considerate people I know.I really didn't know if I would ever be able to say that five years ago.

Beth

06-20-2006, 02:27 PM

Cripes, you guys. I never had any intention of telling her anything about this or printing it for HER to read. I was referring to myself and chezhat read it correctly.

I also understood that you were printing for your own reference -- I would just be careful about printing it if it is at all possible that it could be left somewhere she might find it, if she might see papers you are referring to at a joint therapy session or any other meeting, she might be prone to snoop or read this in anyway. Personally, I'd take notes so there are no references to the thread or BB and everthing was in my own handwriting so as not to temp Murphy's Law (here -- if she can stumble upon it and it will hurt her and make life more difficult, she will).

Adults, and especially parents, understand the need to vent an that frustration and exhuastion cause you see things and say things that can be very hurtful when you really don't want to be hurtful. Teens generally don't.

luv2cook

06-20-2006, 02:33 PM

I really wonder about you doing things like teaching her to drive and going bra shopping with her. I learned that those were just the kinds of touchy situations that would set off conflict.

There's no one else to do this w/her. I did pay for driving lessons; but in Texas, there's a six-month permit before you can get your license. But at the moment, I've taken that away so that's one less issue.

Most of the time shopping is where we don't fight. The bra situation was different in the sense that she has some very strange habits that I'm working with.

What's funny is consequences never seem to happen or when they do, phase her. I told her if she failed any of her finals she was going to lose her cell phone for the summer. she failed 2 of them. She didn't study. I KNOW she didn't study. I was home.

You know another thing that I find is that whenever she tells me something, say about school, and I offer a different viewpoint, she says I'm siding with so and so, blah blah. Every time.

Oh. She has an 85 in geometry. She was mad because it wasn't an A and she has to take the final. She also has to work tonight. I told her an 85 was good! She just blew me off and kept saying how mad she was. :rolleyes:

sillybeans

06-20-2006, 03:01 PM

luv2cook--sounds like you've really got your hands full! You have my deepest empathy.

Have you tried the forums on adoption.com? They have forums on attachment disorders, and you might find some good coping mechanisms there. My experience with their other forums is that people are really supportive and many really know their stuff!

Best to you and K,
Tracy

beacooker

06-20-2006, 03:12 PM

You know another thing that I find is that whenever she tells me something, say about school, and I offer a different viewpoint, she says I'm siding with so and so, blah blah. Every time.

That doesn't suprise me - a lot of people might take it that way. What happens instead of offering a different viewpoint, you offer sympathy for how she is feeling, or ask her how she is planning on handling it, or ask her if she knows why the other person may have done what they did, etc?

Have you read the book How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk? I would highly recommend it.

Kudos to you for taking this girl into your home! You are probably making a world of positive difference in her life.

luv2cook

06-20-2006, 03:19 PM

Well, initially I said bummer and then she said, you need to call Mr. Rivera and talk him out of it. I said, K, it's too late for that. They probably made this change because of missing a day yesterday.

Just got back from taking her to work. Supposed to be there at 4. She was late. I cannot believe she keeps finding jobs where they don't care if you're late.

In the car, I made a comment about something I tried w/my makeup (as she was putting hers on) and she just says nothing. She does this a lot. No polite comment, no response, no followup. nothing. So I said, I guess we're just going to go in silence again. nothing. I think it's very rude how she does that. Yesterday I was telling her a story I thought she'd be interested in and she does it again and starts changing radio stations while I'm telling it. So i just stopped cold and we rode in silence the rest of the way. :o

I found that book online. I will check it out tonight before I pick her up...

Meganator

06-20-2006, 03:38 PM

In the car, I made a comment about something I tried w/my makeup (as she was putting hers on) and she just says nothing. She does this a lot. No polite comment, no response, no followup. nothing. So I said, I guess we're just going to go in silence again. nothing. I think it's very rude how she does that. Yesterday I was telling her a story I thought she'd be interested in and she does it again and starts changing radio stations while I'm telling it. So i just stopped cold and we rode in silence the rest of the way. :o

You know, I think this is another case of typical teenage behavior (sometimes adults, too). Just because there is no response (and "polite comment" would be WAY too much to ask of many teenagers :p ), even if she pretends not to be listening, doesn't mean she didn't hear you. I think kids take in information, and process it...she certainly doesn't want to admit that you are right, but it still may be something that she thinks about, and possibly even acts on, but she doesn't want to outright admit that you may have a better way. Yes, it is proabably rude, but maybe minor in the big scheme of things, and I don't think you should let that be one of YOUR triggers.

luv2cook

06-20-2006, 03:54 PM

Yeah, it's not really a trigger for me but it does sometimes irritate me. I just find it really rude. I wasn't even trying to give her advice,even tho i wanted to. She keeps putting makeup under her eyes KNOWING that she's allergic to it. I told her that I stopped wearing makeup under mine because it showed all of my lines. I thought for sure she'd eat that up because she's always calling me old! Considering that i'm under 40 and can run circles around her physically, she better keep that smack to herself :D

Oh. someone asked me if I talked to her about her goals. Yes, I have. Her short-term goals:
1. tan
2. color or highlight hair
3. workout

1. she doesn't have the money nor will i pay for that.
2. I also won't pay for it. I'd like to, but it's just too expensive
3. She hasn't done that once.

She seems to think that everything will magically be better this next year. I'm not sure how exactly...

jmarie

06-20-2006, 05:32 PM

I had to get used to DH never making a comment when I tell him somthing. It used to make me so angry. Half the time, I never knew if he was even listening. But, after spending some time with his mom, I realized that she is exactly the same way. So, it was the way he was brought up, I guess. Could her dad have responded to her and she just picked it up from him? Maybe something she learned at an early age and the habit is hard to break?

Joyce

GingerPow

06-20-2006, 06:12 PM

Have you read the book How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk? I would highly recommend it.

Kudos to you for taking this girl into your home! You are probably making a world of positive difference in her life.
Good book recommendation - I read that one as well, it is excellent.

Ditto on the kudos to you, luv2cook. I did not realize at first that this is not your biological DD, and that you took her in to help her. You are working tirelessly to make a difference in her life, and you will. You might not see it in the short term, but you will someday. She knows deep down that you care.

Prayers to you all.

luv2cook

06-20-2006, 07:08 PM

I plan on picking up that book tomorrow. My DH got back early from his trip so now I can step back for a bit. He brought us both back goodies so that should make her happy. :)

JackieO

06-20-2006, 08:30 PM

FWIW, I live with an only son who doesn't think twice about lipping off to DH and me in any situation -- public or private.

But in the last five days, I've had no less than five other parents (at a tennis tournament) tell me what a gentleman my son is; he started a new job and his boss thinks he's wonderful with little kids (teaching tennis at a country club); and he found out he improved his ACT score by taking it the second time (and showing up with pencils and a CALCULATOR after blowing off the first test with no prep).

Over time, with love and patience, these things tend to work themselves out. It will be a growth experience for all involved....and I cannot tell you how much I have learned/remembered just from reading this thread.

"You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Not a motto that my mom ever embraced, and consequently, not anything I subscribed to, either. But it's true. Look for the positive ways to reinforce good behavior, and pick your battles on the negative stuff. When confronting the negatives, try to neutrally desribe what happened and offer the support: "How can I help you avoid this consequence in the future?"

Stay as positive as you can. Good luck.

luv2cook

06-21-2006, 02:53 PM

erinl

06-21-2006, 04:34 PM

Way to go, K!

Beth

06-21-2006, 07:35 PM

Congratulate her and genuinely celebrate that 96! Let her know she has shown what she is capable of and how wonderful that is.

Then have yourself a margarita and enjoy this step in the right direction!

And be prepared for some ups and downs. ;)

GingerPow

06-21-2006, 07:41 PM

Wow - that is fantastic! She is obviously very bright - with you and DH guiding her in the right direction, she'll have a wonderful future ahead of her. Sometimes the smartest kids are the most challenging. It all comes together eventually.

Peweh

06-21-2006, 08:49 PM

Her short-term goals:
1. tan
2. color or highlight hair
3. workout

1. she doesn't have the money nor will i pay for that.
2. I also won't pay for it. I'd like to, but it's just too expensive
3. She hasn't done that once.

EXCELLENT report on the geometry final!! What about celebrating and helping her with an in-home color treatment? Not sure what color she's going from/to but if it's not too drastic you could do a home color for less than $10.

I also wanted to say you're doing a great thing, hang in there, keep the positive reinforcements coming for K and ALSO, as always, the CLBBers have given great advice!

Terri_A

06-21-2006, 09:32 PM

You can imagine my shock when she gets in the car and said she made a 96 on her final and has an A in Geometry!!!! If I hadn't been in the car, I would have fallen over.

I got an E from her teacher who told me: K's term average is 83.57and her semester exam is 96 (wow). Her first semester grade is 89.79 which I will round off to a 90. She just eraned 1/2 credit of Geometry pre-AP with an A average.
Except for constant reminder to be quiet and to get back on task, I think she had improved a lot subject wise. She now shows proficiency on setting up and solving equations even the more complex ones.
Please continue to remind her to stay focused on the lessons and not to mind disruptions around her. Thanks.

Dh and I told her we're very proud of her and that her GPA should be excellent going into her junior year.

YEEHAW! Now that's what she really needs...some personal successes that she can call her own. Now, the key is for her to build on them w/o beating herself up if she doesn't ALWAYs hit the mark. I was a lot like her as a kid and have a tendancy to still be like that - it sounds like she has such high expectations of herself that she's afraid to actually TRY because she doesn't want to FAIL. In her mind - it's easier to not even do it. It's a hard cycle to break, but successes like today are a good start! You might even want to say something to her along the lines of " It looks like you handling your school work is working out well, good job!". Then she sees it as an affirmation that she can handle school on her own.

Regardless of my suggestions - I'm really excited for her and for you!!! You're doing an amazing thing!

luv2cook

06-22-2006, 10:00 AM

Now, the key is for her to build on them w/o beating herself up if she doesn't ALWAYs hit the mark. I was a lot like her as a kid and have a tendancy to still be like that - it sounds like she has such high expectations of herself that she's afraid to actually TRY because she doesn't want to FAIL. In her mind - it's easier to not even do it.

Terry, you hit the nail right on the head. Actually, too, part of it is she's never had to work for anything. Where she was, she had no hope so why try, you know? I plan on working into the conversation that we don't expect her to get another 96, that was a great achievement. I just haven't figured out how to word it. I feel like if I hold her to that -- well, now we KNOW you can do it -- she'll feel unnecessary pressure. She needs to do it for herself.

Ok. Got a situation right now. She needed to clean her room/bathroom. She didn't do it last week. We told her it had to be done yesterday because Thurs. we were busy, Fri. she works and has homework to do and she needed to get it done.

Well, from 3 to 7, she sat on her butt watching TV. I didn't say anything. We ate dinner. It was her night for dishes. After that, she went into the LR and sat down AGAIN (after we took my neighbor's 350Z out for a ride!) :D I've been dying to drive that car since he got it - 6 speed manual! sigh...(no backseat. Where would I put 2 large dogs???? It corners like it's on rails!

Anyhoo, after we got settled, she sits in the LR again. My DH and I are getting ready to watch a movie. She's still sitting there. I said to her, K, it's getting late. You need to get moving. She still sat there and said, It's my time, remember? Well, at what point does it not become her time? Guess what? She didn't finish. This is a constant problem where when she doesn't do somethng, she procrastinates, knowing there are going to consequences.

I'm pondering what to say to her. I feel like telling her she needs to go immediately upstairs and finish her room/bathroom or she won't be going to the game 2nite, but I really don't want to take that approach. I did say to my DH in front of her, who can we call to use this ticket if she doesn't get her work done?

I'm really sick of this. Why should we have to wait around for her to finish up, esp. when we told her that after she got home, we were going to go out (DH is on vacay this week). :mad:

Chefzhat

06-22-2006, 10:07 AM

Ok. Got a situation right now. She needed to clean her room/bathroom. She didn't do it last week. We told her it had to be done yesterday because Thurs. we were busy, Fri. she works and has homework to do and she needed to get it done. Well, from 3 to 7, she sat on her butt watching TV. I didn't say anything.

See, right there you've already lost the battle. You need to be clear that she is free to watch TV when her chores are done (and I'd take the TV out of her room, but that's another subject :) ). The Love and Logic book is so good . . . "are you free to watch tv?" is the question - meaning "are all your responsibilities met.

In the situation you describe, she's already doing what she wants, with the added bonus of getting you upset. You have to remember that with some of these kids, emotional situations are the way that they feel things - because high emotion situations are all they know. You have to train them differently.

Debie

luv2cook

06-22-2006, 10:13 AM

Well, one of her complaints to Laura was that we were micromanaging her too much and she wanted the freedom to decide when she was doing things. As long as they were done.

Well, I don't feel like that is the case now. So I need to make my point and stick to it. Other times she hasn't done it on the day I wanted her to, but she did do it. If she doesn't do it, she gets docked from her allowance, which is what happened last week. She is now into July's allowance.

Even if I say to her, she screwed off for four hours, she'll deny it and the whole thing will go south.

Chefzhat

06-22-2006, 10:33 AM

Well, one of her complaints to Laura was that we were micromanaging her too much and she wanted the freedom to decide when she was doing things.

If her therapist feel for that old line she needs to be fired. Every teen will say "if you'd just stop haaasssslllinnnnng me" . . .

JMHO

hugs,
Debie

beacooker

06-22-2006, 11:38 AM

Well, one of her complaints to Laura was that we were micromanaging her too much and she wanted the freedom to decide when she was doing things. As long as they were done.

When setting up the chore, did you specify when it was to be done (perhaps with some input from her, if she would be reasonable about it), and the consequences if it wasn't done by that time? That way, you could give her 2 days or whatever to get the chore done, and you don't have to worry about hassling her. All you have to do is check back in at the agreed upon time and then impose the consequence, if necessary.

luv2cook

06-22-2006, 11:42 AM

Yes, I did. Yesterday. Because we've got things we're doing the rest of the week.

Terri_A

06-22-2006, 01:51 PM

Perhaps if you try wording it the way I do to my 4 yo? =) I would say, "Sabrina, you have to clean your room or you can't go to the Astro's game, so do you want to do it now, and get it out of the way or do you want to do it tonight, which will cut into your story time?" This gives her a little control of the situation, she picks when, but it emphasizes that there are consequences if she doesn't get it done.

I think the key thing right now is to find the thing she can't live w/o and use that in your favor. I know that might be hard, but there's got to be SOMETHING she wants/ needs / has to have!!!

I also see nothing wrong with reminding her that you let her be about school and you are very proud that she was able to pull off a great grade on her own, but she's not being as responsible with chores, so if she doesn't get it done, you will once again dictate to her, which neither you nor she wants!

Good luck!

Beth

06-22-2006, 02:05 PM

LakeMartinGal

06-22-2006, 02:11 PM

TV is a priviledge -- not a right or a necessity. A ballgame is a priviledge. You don't have to micromamage -- constant reminders or needling her, but you do have to put your foot down. It is not micromanaging to have a natural consequence for not having done the things that should have been done. The instruction and a single reminder are all that are required -- and actually, not even the one reminder sometimes.

Doing the right thing as a parnet can mean doing some things you hate doing -- like not using tickets (with younger ones it can be 2 people stay home or the whole family doesn't go -- been there with a basketball game and an on the floor opportunity for one of the boys). But if you don't, they will very quickly figure out that you don't mean it and they can manipulate you if it will cost you money. The good news is that once is often enough to get the message across.
This is so true! With the older DD, she didn't do (whatever, I can't remember), and she couldn't go to a New Kids on the Block concert! And she had to give away her ticket!... With younger DD, it was "get your work done in school, or you can't go to the movies with your brownie troop." Well, she didn't get the work done, and I let her go anyway... just couldn't stand the look... and she has trouble getting things done, even at 30! :o :(

badunnin

06-22-2006, 02:18 PM

1) Reward her for her grade - even something small. Bring her home a pastry from the bakery, something like that, something that says you thought of her. I like the idea of an at-home colour treatment!

2) FOLLOW THROUGH ON THE CONSEQUENCES. I've been guilty of it in my classroom - if you don't, she'll stop believing that consequences exist. She'll believe that all you have for her are empty threats.

You can do it!

hollysmom

06-22-2006, 05:03 PM

I recently walked out of a movie with my two because they wouldn't quit acting up. It's just something that you do.

If you are willing to drive to LaPorte, my stylist will do a color or highlight for around $45.00. According to those who get cuts/colors in Sugarland, that is a bargain. It would be a cool reward - very visible. Maybe if she does well the rest of the summer semester.

I'm not looking forward to teenagers - but at least we get to grow them up and screw them up ourselves! I live down the street from a fostering family and see the struggles and victories with children who have had poor parenting. If you are successful with K, you might look into fostering in the future - you will have plenty of experience!

SSM

mackandme

06-22-2006, 08:58 PM

Wow, I was K oh, about 15-16 years ago. Maybe in some ways worse - runaway, dropout, alcohol, etc. I don't really want to comment either way on how one should handle the situation.

But I would like to let you know that I'm now a well-adjusted 31-year-old with a college degree, a good job, a house, friends and some wonderful animals and a darn good life. I still don't have a great relationship with my parents and never will, but we have a good working relationship, so to speak.

It won't always be this way for you guys.

luv2cook

06-22-2006, 09:44 PM

Well, we told her to get it done by X time today. I plan on the next time speaking up ahead of time and stating that even tho she's managing her grades, not the chores and from now on, blah, blah.

We did go to the game tonight. She did her usual act weird in a new place and got mad because when she went to the bathroom, I decided to go with her. I figured why have all those people get up twice when once would do it? Then she wanted me to go ahead while she washed her hands and I said no. What is the big deal? Then later she asked my DH for some money for ice cream, didn't look my direction, didn't ask if I wanted anything and when she came back, I said thanks for asking if I wanted anything.

When I mentioned that to my DH after she left, he's like she's a teenager. she's selfish. Ever since he got back from Alabama and talking to my MIL, everything she does is, "She's a teenager." So I said to him, so she should have no expectations ever because she's a teenager? I mean, i understand they're selfish, but at some point they need to learn some manners.

Laura

06-22-2006, 10:12 PM

Then later she asked my DH for some money for ice cream, didn't look my direction, didn't ask if I wanted anything and when she came back, I said thanks for asking if I wanted anything.

I really think you are doing a great job here, but I have to say, these are the type of comments where you just have to bite your tongue. It just doesn't help the situation. I think I have mentioned that my DD is about K's age, and she is generally a very good kid. But again today that selfish, the world revolves around me attitude raised its ugly head. It's not easy. I remember potty-training and temper tantrums. Those were the good ole days. ;)

Chefzhat

06-23-2006, 05:19 AM

Then later she asked my DH for some money for ice cream, didn't look my direction, didn't ask if I wanted anything and when she came back, I said thanks for asking if I wanted anything.

Don't do that (the comment). Ask for what you want. She is a typical selfish teen - all kids do this. All of them. You getting your shot in after the event is not good communication. Laura is right. Learn to bite your tongue on this, it really helps!

There are lots of books on how to survive the teen years and they are so helpful.

Debie

GingerPow

06-23-2006, 05:39 AM

Then later she asked my DH for some money for ice cream, didn't look my direction, didn't ask if I wanted anything and when she came back, I said thanks for asking if I wanted anything.
I mean, i understand they're selfish, but at some point they need to learn some manners.
Sometimes people (not just teenagers) are not taught to do for others. It is possible that her upbringing before you might not have included lessons such as this.

I know that many years ago, I had to learn simple rules of hospitiality from other people, such as offering them a cup of coffee, a cold drink, how about a sandwich? when they come to visit. Believe it or not, I did not learn that from my parents. Now, no one steps foot in my house with out me offering them something.

In the early years of our marriage, DH would go watch t.v. while I cleaned the kitchen up from the dinner I just made, and bathed the little ones . When I asked him if he would help, he had no idea that I needed it.
I mean, it was truly a new concept for him.

His mother ran around and did everything while the menfolk retired to the library with cigars and brandy. Not literally - but it does seem like that is from another era. He was fine with helping, he just needed to be informed.

So, I guess in an effort to give DD the benefit of the doubt, I'm throwing this into the conversation. It may have been an opportunity to teach. But you were there, so you'd have to give the final analysis.

P.S. I think you may need to take a weekend at the spa or something similar. Teenagers, God bless 'em, will create the need for a mental health break in your life. ;) I just went out into the yard and pounded my head against a tree until I blacked out. :D

honeygirl1971

06-23-2006, 05:41 AM

We did go to the game tonight. She did her usual act weird in a new place and got mad because when she went to the bathroom, I decided to go with her. I figured why have all those people get up twice when once would do it? Then she wanted me to go ahead while she washed her hands and I said no. What is the big deal? Then later she asked my DH for some money for ice cream, didn't look my direction, didn't ask if I wanted anything and when she came back, I said thanks for asking if I wanted anything.

First let me say that I think you are doing an awesome job in a terribly difficult situation, and even a saint would get irritated by K's behavior. The fact that you are actively looking for solutions, in counseling, etc., is hugely important and I really admire all the work you are putting into this. With that having been said, I was a really pretty easy teen. I was an A+ student and very motivated, involved in lots of school activities, got along well with my parents, did my chores, and got promoted in my very first job (at the mall) to asst manager after only 3 months. BUT, if I was at a game with parental figures, I would not have wanted my mom to go to the bathroom with me, and I would not have asked her if she wanted anything when I went to get ice cream. To me, that is such typical teenage behavior, and I would have been totally guilty of it at that age even though I was an "easy" teen and didn't have any of the problems K has. SO, I think the only thing to do in situations like these is seriously just to ignore the behavior. She has so many bigger issues to deal with, these typical teenage ones are not worth devoted any energy to (or even commenting on). I can see how it would be annoying, though!

badunnin

06-23-2006, 06:20 AM

Luv2cook - one of the most important things I had to learn in the classroom when dealing with teens is to pick your battles. Yes, she's selfish - that's normal for her age group, and she will most likely grow out of it. You don't have to correct every social faux pas. If your battles are going to be her bedroom and homework, then fight those. I agree that at her age I wouldn't have wanted mom going to the bathroom with me. Heck, it would bug me now! There are going to be times when she is going to do something that bugs the heck out of you - but bite your tongue! It sounds like she has a lot of ... correcting isn't the right term, but a lot of ground to make up? to do, and you can't tackle it all at once. It sounds like she has it coming at her from all sides (parents, teachers, therapists) and eventually, she will have had enough and could shut down. Small steps.

Another thing I've learned by working with teens is that you can't always reason with them like adults - because they aren't adults yet. Outlining the possible effects of not doing her cheerleading may not help - she won't get it, especially coming from an adult (and this is any adult, not just you!). She won't hear it, won't want to hear it, and it won't do any good. See lesson number one that I learned. ;) It will save *you* a lot of grief as well.

Meganator

06-23-2006, 07:48 AM

One of my biggest struggles is making her feel successful. I tell her all the time how smart she is, that her hair looks nice and every now and then her makeup looks decent. I tell her what great organziational skills she has (when she uses them) but other than that...there's just not a whole lot.

I noticed in your pictures of Brewster that she has beautiful fingernails. Mine were horrible as a teenager, and I still struggle with that.

LakeMartinGal

06-23-2006, 09:22 AM

One thing I've noticed in your posts, and believe me, I struggled with this when I had teens -- sarcasm and teasing just don't work with teens! I used these, and I suspect you do, too, to avoid out-and-out criticism. But they hear the criticism, and not the humor or teasing. My mom had a saying that these remarks are 'half kidding, but fully serious.'

I think you must be a very caring individual, fighting these battles the best you can, and really doing a remarkable job! :) So many parents don't try to help the teens, just get through the years as best they can, waiting for the child to move out. I just can't imagine taking on a teen that wasn't mine in a parental role. I enjoyed teens as friends, when I was in my 30's, but they were my cousin's friends first, and they thought of me as the impartial older voice -- I had no parental role in their life. All this to say how much I admire you, and what a great job you're doing! It's obvious that you care about this girl, and are showing it every day! :)

luv2cook

06-23-2006, 11:19 AM

Laura

06-23-2006, 11:30 AM

Luv to cook, you make a valid point. And you may be allowing a lot of stuff to slide that you are not telling us about, but seriously teenagers are really focused on themselves, and you have got to pick and choose your battles.

Yesterday, I came home in the middle of the day so I could get DD and her friends tickets to Waterworld. It was out of the way, and while she did say thank you, she was pretty much a snot about everything else. I just left the house without making a comment and vented to a friend. Later that evening, when the situation was removed we talked about it. But making sarcastic comments back to your DD isn't going to help the situation at all. And yes, she probably does feel like you are micromanaging her because she couldn't even go to or return from the bathroom by herself. Maybe in her mind if she had asked if you wanted something you would have said you wanted to go along to see what they had, and she just wanted a moment to herself.

I do understand your frustration, but as Bethany mentioned earlier, to some extent it seems like you are expecting her to act like an adult, and she is just not there yet. It is hard to have rational arguments with some one who really isn't rational. My SO's son is 19 and is an elite athlete at the top program in the country for his sport. He has been going back and forth (and not in an respectful manner) with his coach on how he wants to be trained (his coach not only has about 9 national championships under his belt but has been an assistant coach on the Olympics more than once). SO's sons arguments about why he should be able to call the shots are laughable, but in his mind, they are completely valid. Work on the things that you can, but also remember that they are going to be a pain in the butt more than once, and it is a growing process for everyone.

I hope this doesn't sound like a criticism just an opinion from one who is going through it.

stacy7272

06-23-2006, 11:34 AM

Have you read the book How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk? I would highly recommend it.
I have a friend who is in library studies and has to read TONS of books and she recommended this book highly to me. Thank you for bringing it back to my attention because I really want to read it.

Anyway, the reason I write this is because when I went online to my library to put this book on hold I saw that the author(s) also have a book called How to Talk so Teens will Listen and Listen so Teens Will Talk. That one might be even more geared to what you need.

luv2cook

06-23-2006, 11:35 AM

And you may be allowing a lot of stuff to slide that you are not telling us about,

You have no idea. the new joke between my dh and I now, when i want to say something but haven't, "Do you have the duct tape?" :rolleyes:

GingerPow

06-23-2006, 11:37 AM

...when DO you start expecting from them? I mean, come on? If you DON'T ever say anything about what they do that's rude - like not offering someone anything to drink when the come into your home - when are they going to learn and how?
Just state it simply, conversationally and phrase it where it sounds like she already knows it. Teenagers can be like the Japanese, they need to save face.
"I'm sure you already know this, K., but it's polite to ask if anyone else would like an ice cream when you are going to get one for yourself. I'm going to go make some popcorn, would you like some?"
"As you know, K., when someone comes to visit us, they get offered something to drink. Don't you appreciate that when you visit someone?"

Over and over and over, and they look at you like you suddenly sprouted two heads. One day you watch them in action when they don't know you are, and you say ah-ha, they got it!

luv2cook

06-23-2006, 11:38 AM

Anyway, the reason I write this is because when I went online to my library to put this book on hold I saw that the author(s) also have a book called How to Talk so Teens will Listen and Listen so Teens Will Talk. That one might be even more geared to what you need.

yes, they've been mentioned and I plan on picking them up. thanks!

I went through all the posts and wrote down stuff from them so i could refer back to it w/out having to get online to do it.

sneezles

06-23-2006, 11:39 AM

luv2cook

06-23-2006, 11:48 AM

I did teach her the drink one. She does remember that - sometimes not right away and if she doesn't I step in and say it. No big deal. most of the time she remembers. I've talked about napkin in the lap and not talking w/your mouth full. that one grosses me out more than anything else. I cannot stand to eat with someone who talks w/their mouth full. gross!

I realize when teens get together, manners most likely go out the window, but she needs to have them when she's in mixed company or adult company. I do agree that Gingerpow's example sounds much better than how I phrased it.

My cousin, who is almost 19, was never taught table manners. i was appalled the one time we did go out to eat at a decent restaurant (not fast food). but then again, most of the people he hangs around act like he does, so... :rolleyes: AND I'm embarrassed that no one in my family taught him! that's even worse! Well, his father and K's father...that should say enough...he also grew up w/out a mother and lived with my grandmother. My aunt spoiled the crap out of him to make up for it. whenever I would ask about something he should learn/do, etc., I always heard, that's his father's responsibility!

Chefzhat

06-23-2006, 11:49 AM

...when DO you start expecting from them? I mean, come on? If you DON'T ever say anything about what they do that's rude - like not offering someone anything to drink when the come into your home - when are they going to learn and how? There were so many things that I did not learn from my parents that I wish I had.
You probably can't expect anything from K, she hasn't had the prior training. You're going to have to do it. And do it in a way that does not use sarcasm, because teens cannot comprehend sarcasm, they just hear criticism.

WHO teaches them to be considerate or puts the bug in their ear? I'm not saying every single time they commit a faux pas, but I'm going to have a hard time swallowing, they're a teenager crap all the time. To me, that's like getting a free pass to do what you want when you want.
I know it seems like a "free pass" - but truly it isn't. Again, if the common courtesies are important to you, you're going to have to teach them.

And as far as the bathroom thing goes, it's not like ANYONE in the 43,000 people that were there last night knew we were together. I didn't stand next to her. We didn't know any of these people. I was just trying to be considerate to the 14 people we had to have stand up coming and going, when 2 can go instead of staggered times.
You know that, and I know that, and everyone in the row knows that - K just doesn't. :) Someday she will. Probably when she has kids. And can look back and thank her lucky stars she had you. And if she's really well adjusted, she'll call you and tell you that! :)

This is all really hard stuff, especially hard since you've never had to experience kids before. When I got my stepkids I thought I was going to lose my mind. Why won't they say please? Why can't they control themselves? Why won't they do the right thing?

It took a long time before I realized that if I wanted them to do those things I needed to teach them. It took years to teach, but my life got simpler when I stopped expecting the world, and started sharing what I knew. And today I have wonderful stepkids that call me all the time, want to do things with me, and share things with me.

More hugs,
Debie

newtricks

06-23-2006, 12:01 PM

...when DO you start expecting from them? I mean, come on? If you DON'T ever say anything about what they do that's rude - like not offering someone anything to drink when the come into your home - when are they going to learn and how? There were so many things that I did not learn from my parents that I wish I had.

WHO teaches them to be considerate or puts the bug in their ear? I'm not saying every single time they commit a faux pas, but I'm going to have a hard time swallowing, they're a teenager crap all the time. To me, that's like getting a free pass to do what you want when you want.

Luv2Cook - I've got two different themes so bear with what might be a long post! :)

First, I can relate to your situation although I've got a different generational thing going. My mil - who has Parkinsons related dementia - lives with us. I'm sure you get, like I do, the "you should have a halo. You're a saint, etc. etc." comments. And, while true :D , I always think to myself "if you only knew how generally pissed off I am a lot of the time at her!" and dementia is like teenagerhood- it makes a person very volatile and difficult to deal with. And like you, I don't have years of loving this person to fall back on in those difficult times. I mean I do love her but it's hard to like her sometimes. Which leads me to... there is a very distinct angry tone to many of your statements about her (which I hope I've made clear I totally understand and empathize with). And I'm sort of wondering if you realize and acknowledge that? Are you getting some professional help yourself with this very difficult situation?

Then my second thing which flows from the first. Most parenting advice tells us to keep the emotion out of our discipline. Which is near impossible sometimes but a great goal to shoot for! :) Gingerpow and Sneezles (and editing to say Debie who posted while I did) gave great ideas on that. The most important thing we, as parents, do to teach respect and manners is to model them.

Good luck. Another person who hopes this doesn't come across as criticism. You should have a halo! ;)

honeygirl1971

06-23-2006, 12:07 PM

...when DO you start expecting from them? I mean, come on? If you DON'T ever say anything about what they do that's rude - like not offering someone anything to drink when the come into your home - when are they going to learn and how?

I totally agree with you in principle, but I just think that given how much you and she are going through, the "typical teenager stuff" is just much less important in the grand scheme of things. And it sounds like you've already made progress with manners etc to some degree. I would model good behavior, and then work on these issues more when you are not fighting so many other important battles. To me it just seems like something as minor as the bathroom incident or the ice cream incident is not the worth the hassle, especially since for a teenager it's not really "acting weird," as you put it.

Laura

06-23-2006, 12:12 PM

...when DO you start expecting from them? I mean, come on? If you DON'T ever say anything about what they do that's rude - like not offering someone anything to drink when the come into your home - when are they going to learn and how?

Please don't misunderstand, I wasn't suggesting that you not say things, but there needs to be a time and a method that is the most successful. I guess my point was that they don't automatically get it and K is not unique in this regard.

It sometimes seem like we take two steps back and one step forward when it comes to raising kids and that is when we have been able to instill our values from day one. You can do this. Come to vent, rejoice or just talk.

luv2cook

06-23-2006, 12:31 PM

teenager it's not really "acting weird," This comment is more toward every time we go to a new place - she just acts funny. She is quiet, not herself. Hard to explain. It was the first time being in Minute Maid park and she didn't even want to walk all the way around it to see it. just wanted to go sit in her seat by herself. This makes me concerned for cheerleading camp. It's a week away in a strange place...but that's for later.

Yes, a lot of previous statements do appear angry and a lot of frustration. You would think she would be happy to be out of that hell hole she lived in. It too 2 months to get the stench out of her and her stuff. (father smoked in the house).

I don't walk around angry w/her. Like today, I walked into her room and very nicely told her it was 1:15 and what time was she going to work (she was sleeping). I try to let things go from day to day.

I do try to be a model to her about how to act around people. I am nice to everyone I meet. Do I ever get irritated? absolutely. Am I ever grouchy at times? You bet. But my original post was about the fact that we couldn't get past situations where she was angry and didn't get her way. i felt like we couldn't communicate through something. it was just coming up over and over and over. Things are mostly fine until she doesn't get her way or want to do something.

But i will say this. She is always looking for an opportunity to slam me on something. I think it's part of her self-esteem thing - trying to make someone else look/feel bad. The restaurant last week was an example. The fact when i mentioned to her, "Guess who chewed through another set of headphones?" Her response to me, "Well, that's your fault." I said to her, I didn't say it wasn't my fault, it was just a comment. of course it was my fault duh.

Yes, I have heard the halo, saint stuff. You know what my internal response to that is? That's great. Can I trade that in for parenting advice or an occasional car ride or someone to talk to that HAS teenagers? THAT would be worth it.

Chefzhat

06-23-2006, 12:50 PM

Yes, I have heard the halo, saint stuff. You know what my internal response to that is? That's great. Can I trade that in for parenting advice or an occasional car ride or someone to talk to that HAS teenagers? THAT would be worth it.

That's it. I'm coming to visit. :)

Make up the guest bed.

newtricks

06-23-2006, 01:23 PM

Yes, a lot of previous statements do appear angry and a lot of frustration. You would think she would be happy to be out of that hell hole she lived in.

I so hear you on that one! And you have every right to feel angry/resentful about that. Unfortunately, she's probably not going to be grateful for a loooong time.

One more parenting thing - It must be soooo hard to have a kid in a "phase" when you haven't lived successfuly through the others. e.g. when I hear parents wondering how to "stop" their 2 year old's tantrums I know that there's a way to handle those tantrums - but they will probably have to do it again and again and again and again. The parents just want them to stop but they won't because the kid is two. They can't help it, that's what they do. It's very easy to see it in retrospect now that my kids are older, very difficult at the time. :) I would imagine it's the same with a teenager. All the folks with teenager experience on this thread are nodding their heads and saying "yep, she's a teenager, that's what they do". But you're right in it! Try to hang on and use all their wisdom.

Beth

06-23-2006, 02:43 PM

Yes, a lot of previous statements do appear angry and a lot of frustration. You would think she would be happy to be out of that hell hole she lived in. It too 2 months to get the stench out of her and her stuff. (father smoked in the house).

OK. Two things: first, have you ever taken a psychology class? I think it was there but possibly also in crisis counselor training that we talked about conditioning. A person is going to be most comfortable with what is most familiar to them, even if it is painful. Have you ever heard that if a person bangs his head against a brick wall long enough, you can stop him, but he'll go right to bagning his head against the wall? In crisis training, it can be the abused spouse, etc.

Think about it. K lived in what you call a hell hole, but it was her hell hole. She knew who she was and how things worked there. She may not have liked it, but she knew what was what. When she came to live with you, everything is different. She may have some difficulty adjusting to a nicer environment, different expectations. She may even get depressed, confused or angry because she doesn't know how she fits in or doesn't feel that she does fit in -- even more so than the average teen and at an age where fitting in is so important. And when she doesn't feel she fits in, she can feel bad about herself and she can blame you -- probably does some of both. It's going to take some time for that to change and for her to stop feeling like she needs to bang her head and go back to what feels comfortable.

Second, she has seen you as someone who could give her things and do things for her. She probably sees you as having everything. Now imagine the fairy godmother arrives and says Cindarella is going to have to earn her ticket to the ball. You've changed the roles on her -- that's going to take some adjusting too.

Now, when you take those things and factor in the ordinary teenage stuff (they know everything and adults are stupid, worry too much etc., they are invincible and nothing bad will happen to them, they want to do what all their friends are doing, they want to be seen as cool and independent enough to not been seen with parents around (I've watched this start in 3rd or 4th grade for some folks) and sometimes the brain cells aren't all firing (Time magazine did a piece on the teen brain a year or so ago -- if I still have it, I'll try to send you a copy).... well, you really aren't doing as badly as you probably feel.

Keep in mind that parents with their own children have had years of tantrums in grocery stores or other scenes to get past that knee-high to a grasshopper feeling. Lucky you -- you get to start at this challenging point in her life. ;) Keep plugging, but try letting up a bit on her and on yourself. Set your expectations only a rung above where you are instead of way over your head. Be happy with progress in the right general direction and expect some setbacks at times.

I agree that sarcasm will not help. It can really sting. I will always remember bringing home a straight A report card. We had numeric grades then, and my dad looked at it and asked me why they weren't all 100s. He chuckled, and I knew he had struggled with my brother's grades and was happy, but that hurt me more than he could have imagined when I had been expecting a congratulatory response. And it played over and over in my mind for a long time.

Help her learn by speaking up for what you want ("while you're up, would you get me a blank?" as you hand her the money) and by setting an example (asking her when it's your turn to go or asking a friend when they are over. If K has already asked, just say great and invite the friend to let K know if they change their mind later on.)

Hang in there! If it were easy, anyone could do it. ;)

luv2cook

06-23-2006, 02:57 PM

Second, she has seen you as someone who could give her things and do things for her. She probably sees you as having everything. Now imagine the fairy godmother arrives and says Cindarella is going to have to earn her ticket to the ball. You've changed the roles on her -- that's going to take some adjusting too

It's been a year, Beth.

And I laid it out to her before she ever came what the rules were going to be and i even explained to her that i wouldn't be able to do/buy things like that for her all the time.

She does want me to buy her everything, what teen doesn't, I guess. she does want to do what her friends do at school. I just can't tell her that I don't feel like she's ready for some of the things that they're doing. she's just not on their level YET. will be, I'm sure but not now.

The one area that i know hurts is friends. I know that she wants to be accepted and have friends. she's had a hard time fitting in. That's one thing she had in LA. was friends - even if they were bad. But w/those friends was all the things she shouldn't have been doing - skipping school, drinking, sneaking out every night, lying about where she was, etc.

I feel like I've offered her what she's never had - a nice home, stability, a normal life w/more opportunities than she had there, two "parents" on the same page (she hates this) and vacations (something she never really had - no one wanted to take her anywhere in my family). my grandfather did once and was sorry and yet that's just not enough...I'd be so much happier if I had...

Beth

06-23-2006, 05:15 PM

I wasn't sure how long it had been, but relative to the total situation, a year isn't all that long. Long enough to see some changes -- and it looks like you have (her geometry test, for one). Just keep building on it. It won't all come at once, so be grateful for any little steps and hope to see some bigger ones follow.

Not sure what kinds of things her friends are doing that she isn't, but why can't you talk to her about it and why you feel she isn't ready? I do understand that you might feel K will get all upset and you'll get into another upheval.

Try talking to her with the emotional distance that you would in a business discussion. Let her fall apart if she needs to. Let her know you are trying to help her get something she wants and to let her know what she needs to do to get there. Start with just one thing -- you're choice what you're ready to address (she can have her choice later). Don't promise anything you can't be ready to give her -- you have to follow through when she hold up her end fo the bargain.

If she won't join you in an intelligent conversation, terminate it and ask her to let you know when she's ready to talk. If you're available, you'll talk then -- if not, you'll find a time that is better for both of you. Then calmly walk away. You may or not make it all the way through the conversation the first time or two, but you will remain in control. Take it as a victory if you can just avoid the emotional battle the first time.

Also, consider that she may not be able to show gratitude just yet. And she may be at a point where she does take the things you do for her for granted. Teens aren't known for showing gratitude in general, but she was used to getting things as gifts from you before. She probably doesn't realize and can't realize at this point just how much you have done and how much it could mean in her life. Gratitude is not entirely an inborn trait -- it also comes with experience.

I know you've heard it before, but remember that even good change is stressful.

beacooker

06-23-2006, 05:34 PM

Another thing to think about - as K. gets farther away from the life she used to live, she may be starting to see more clearly all the ways that her father didn't care for her properly, and all that she missed out on. She may start feeling more anger about that, and if she is feeling safe with you, she may be choosing you to take the anger out on. It will take time and patience on your part to help her work through her anger. 1 year really isn't very long at all, especially considering her age. I agree with other posters - it is probably going to be a long time before you get much thanks from her for what you have done. Parenting isn't much of a glory job! :)

fci5767

06-23-2006, 06:45 PM

I have another thought for you. I've been lurking on a message board for foster and foster/adoptive parents (Foster Care and Adoptive Community (http://fosterparents.com/phpBB2/index.php)) and there are lots of posters who are either fostering and/or adoptive parents of teenagers. There is also a section for people who are fostering or have adopted relatives. You might find a lot of support and advice from people who are in your exact situation. It's the best (and most active) site that I've found.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions (although my experience is with children much much younger.) I just made my first post over there.

Beth

06-23-2006, 07:59 PM

Anne's point is a very good one. You've got so many things to deal with.

badunnin

06-23-2006, 08:00 PM

So, how did the appointment go today?

oceanjasper

06-23-2006, 09:22 PM

...when DO you start expecting from them? I mean, come on? If you DON'T ever say anything about what they do that's rude - like not offering someone anything to drink when the come into your home - when are they going to learn and how? There were so many things that I did not learn from my parents that I wish I had.

As for your quote above, I think the key is in how you say it. From my perspective, what you said to your DD after she returned from the concession (without asking if you wanted anything) seems like a dig. I know that all mother-daughter type relationships are different, but I can't imagine my Mom saying something like that to me. If she did, I would feel hurt. I am not big on guilt trips. How I learned to be considerate in those kinds of situations is by watching her be considerate. Nothing needed to be said.

I think you have set some pretty high expectations of your DD, and I can understand why, because you obviously want the best for her and you know that she is capable of amazing things. However, it seems that when your expectations of her are not met, you are disappointed in her. I would hope that she is doing well in school for herself, and not to please you or anyone else. In the same way, I think if she really wanted to excel in gymnastics or cheerleading, she would put the effort into it. If she doesn't, perhaps it just doesn't matter as much to her, as it does to you.

I know that there is a lot more to it than the couple of things that I brought up. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to try and figure out the right things to say and do. I hope that you are able to work out your relationship with your DD and that things aren't so much of a struggle all the time. Hang in there!

jlo_of_hotlanta

06-23-2006, 09:37 PM

I just wanted to point out a positive -

The reason she wants to take AP classes is because she wants to get away from the "lowlifes" and "losers" who don't do anything and just go becaues they have to.

Although it's maybe not really the best way to generalize people in lower classes, it could be encouraging - she realizes that the people she's hanging out with aren't having the best influence on her, so she's taking a step (even if it's a baby step!) to do something about that.

Also, she does acknowledge that it's better not to be one of the people that goes just because they have to. Even if she's not acting on that knowledge, it seems encouraging that at least she realizes the difference.

Good luck, this is a tough situation, but at least you care enough to worry about it and try to come up with solutions. :)

Ashley

LakeMartinGal

06-24-2006, 08:14 AM

Just state it simply, conversationally and phrase it where it sounds like she already knows it. Teenagers can be like the Japanese, they need to save face.
"I'm sure you already know this, K., but it's polite to ask if anyone else would like an ice cream when you are going to get one for yourself. I'm going to go make some popcorn, would you like some?"
"As you know, K., when someone comes to visit us, they get offered something to drink. Don't you appreciate that when you visit someone?"
This reminds me of a person we know, whose mother always 'shaped' her children by saying things like, "I know you want to be a thoughtful person, and thoughtful people do ....whatever." or "I'm sure you want to get good grades, and people who get good grades have to ...." You get the idea. The thrust of this was to implant the desire in the youngster's mind of what they should want to be, and to tell them how to get there.

DH and I are always comparing things we were told as kids/teens. "well, if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you" -- "when are you going to grow up" and my personal favorite -- "why can't you be more like...."

It's a wonder we grew up as 'normally' as we did -- but that was just what parenting was like in the 50's. :rolleyes: :eek: We have surely come a long way since then! :)

luv2cook

06-24-2006, 09:00 AM

yes, my expectations are high, but only in things I feel she is capable of. I encourage her to do her best in whatever she wants to do. I don't care if she does gymnastics or cheerleading. those were her choices, not mine. I'm just supporting them.

The things that she wants to do that other kids are doing involve a later curfew, a driver's license, going where she wants when she wants, working as late as she wants, doing a lot of things during the week (that she just can't handle w/schoolwork) there was a trip to the beach w/people we didn't know last year for an overnight trip we said no to. I can't really remember, all I can give you is a feeling that I have and what I can see in other kids her age and grade. There's a difference. She's just not there.

My DH sabotaged our appt. yesterday. K was suposed to go to work at 4. Our appt. was at 3:30. He, I feel, deliberately went to play golf and didn't get back until 5. There was no way I could get there for myself because K was goign to work. I didn't want to try and explain to K I was going to talk to Laura by myself so we reset it for Tues. at 4. DH didn't want to go.

Now that DH & K are getting along, my god, she can do whatever she wants! it's ridiculous. He was talking about her driving last night again and her curfew and all this crap - stuff he and I need to discuss privately before speaking with her. I gave him daggers and he shut up.

OH here's another bomb I am going to have to deal with and it keeps coming up here and there. My DH's, whose mouth was running last night, said in convo, guess we can't call you kid much longer, huh? And she says six more months. That means she turns 18 and will be an adult.

Ug....not really. I told her a month ago that her turning 18 means nothing. If she was graduated from HS, that would be different but she's still got 2 years to go. I really feel like this is something that needs to be addressed because I know she's going to push the I can do what I want, I'm an adult button as often as possible. I've told her that is not the case but there's got to be a better way of dealing with this issue, too . I feel she thinks that she will be able to do what she wants when she wants and is going to try...

badunnin

06-24-2006, 09:21 AM

OH here's another bomb I am going to have to deal with and it keeps coming up here and there. My DH's, whose mouth was running last night, said in convo, guess we can't call you kid much longer, huh? And she says six more months. That means she turns 18 and will be an adult.

Ug....not really. I told her a month ago that her turning 18 means nothing. If she was graduated from HS, that would be different but she's still got 2 years to go. I really feel like this is something that needs to be addressed because I know she's going to push the I can do what I want, I'm an adult button as often as possible. I've told her that is not the case but there's got to be a better way of dealing with this issue, too . I feel she thinks that she will be able to do what she wants when she wants and is going to try...

Hey, stop being such a pessimist! I know it's hard, but this isn't a bomb, it's a *potential* bomb, and you have plenty of time to diffuse it. I'd have a family meeting with you, K, your DH and a therapist before that day (still 6 months off!) and outline what you expect from an 18 year old *under your roof*. My brother and I both lived at home until we were, well, I was 30, and even though we were adults, there were certain rules and courtesies that had to be followed. Even when we came home from college (we both moved back in later), there was a curfew in place, chores that needed to be done, etc. Yes, we were legal adults, but we still needed to be positive participants in the household. That's what adults do, after all.... Stress that being an adult isn't about not having a curfew, it's about making good choices and being a productive member of the society you live in, whether it's a household, a school, or the greater community.

GingerPow

06-24-2006, 10:29 AM

...we still needed to be positive participants in the household.
Interesting that you said that. I used that exact phrase when discussing household responsibilities with my high school age kids home for the summer.

They need to pick up after themselves, clean up their dishes, etc. from the kitchen after they've eaten, bring in pool towels, keep their rooms and the bathroom clean, et al.

I am not interested in providing maid service for them, I have a life too.
(On the Cooking Light message board. Just kidding, I didn't say that one). :D

luv2cook

06-24-2006, 11:12 PM

So after feeling "sick" all day, she comes downstairs at 8 pm. and says she was "asked out." uhh, nothing reflected on caller id. but anywhoo, she tells us who and she says he just graduated. she knows that we don't want her going out w/anyone not in high school. BUT because he hadjust graduated, we let her go.

She drags her friend Amy into it whose mother doesn't speak English and is only 15. We find out that Amy was kind of the middle person and doesn't really like the 19 y/o she's "going out" with. We knew that was crap.

Then we end up dropping them off at chili's because at 8 he's in the shower? ok. So then she calls us at 10:30 and says taht they just showed up and can she stay out until 11:30 because Amy can. uhh, Amy's mother thinks who know what. she wouldn't let us take Amy to a 9 p.m. movie because it was too late but is willing to let her stay out? just crap. I try calling Amy's mother bu could not communicate.

So K asks if they can come over til 11:30. Dh says no, if they have no respect to show up to take you out and dont' show up until 10:30, oh well. So DH goes out to wait on them and K is already OUT OF THE CAR 2 HOUSES down! b4 he even gets outside. Now, what kind of crap is that? I, unfortuately, miss that part. I thought she got out after she saw DH.

She doesn't understand the HS vs. out of high school problem. We tried to explain it to her and I cannot TELL you how it pisses me off when she tells us/me what we say is stupid or whatever adjective she uses.

we feel like it's a slippery slope. she feels like we're judging the guy when in fact we dont' feel like she needs to date anyone out of high school and DH had a problem with him showing up w/his friend so late. they said they had car trouble. ok. they both have cars? just didn't seem right.

Are DH and I out of our mind here? K is bent out of shape saying that we don't trust her or them and she could have lied and we feel like she did...sigh...AND she sazys she doesn't lie - yeah, right. When she's caught she keeps going!

edited to add that in the hispanic community it's my understanding that going out w/someone the family doesn't know esp. 15 v. 19 is not acceptable. I called my GF to verify this. So do I have a convo w/the mother vis my GF who is fluent??????? K told me that Amy was going to tell her mother all of it AFTER the fact. well, she was allowed to do stuff based on a lie? ahahahahahah!

tbb113

06-24-2006, 11:23 PM

So after feeling "sick" all day, she comes downstairs at 8 pm. and says she was "asked out." uhh, nothing reflected on caller id. but anywhoo, she tells us who and she says he just graduated. she knows that we don't want her going out w/anyone not in high school. BUT because he hadjust graduated, we let her go.
Did she get her cell phone back? Could he have called there?

Then we end up dropping them off at chili's because at 8 he's in the shower? ok. So then she calls us at 10:30 and says taht they just showed up and can she stay out until 11:30
My son frequently showers before he goes out. Wouldn't surprise me that a teen would be in the shower at 8pm. I've even been known to shower before a date ;) Teenagers plans don't always work as hoped for. Sometimes things (chores, waiting for a car, waiting for friends) take longer than expected.

She doesn't understand the HS vs. out of high school problem. We tried to explain it to her and I cannot TELL you how it pisses me off when she tells us/me what we say is stupid or whatever adjective she uses.

we feel like it's a slippery slope. she feels like we're judging the guy when in fact we dont' feel like she needs to date anyone out of high school and DH had a problem with him showing up w/his friend so late. they said they had car trouble. ok. they both have cars? just didn't seem right.

Given that she is almost 18 I don't find it odd that her friends would be seniors or HS graduates. That is who she should be and it is who her friends will be. My 17 year old son (senior in the fall) has friends that range from incoming juniors through entering sophmore year of college. He met them in HS and has stayed in touch.

edited to add that in the hispanic community it's my understanding that going out w/someone the family doesn't know esp. 15 v. 19 is not acceptable. I called my GF to verify this. So do I have a convo w/the mother vis my GF who is fluent??????? K told me that Amy was going to tell her mother all of it AFTER the fact. well, she was allowed to do stuff based on a lie? ahahahahahah!

Is this really any of your business what Amy tells her mother? Do you really want to open that ball of wax? You can tell K that you don't want her hanging around with Amy because of this incident...but I wouldn't go to her mother.

Grace

06-24-2006, 11:39 PM

All I can say is if I had been "sick" (real or made up) all day, my folks would never have let me out. If I'm too sick to do anything else, I'm too sick to go out. And they would not have gotten all involved in any drama. It would have been no, and that would have been the end of it. I wouldn't have been able to make them second guess themselves and their decision nor try to "reason" with them. They weren't interested, didn't care and would have actually probably laughed at me. :rolleyes: Not saying this is necessarily the best way to handle kids, but it might be something to think about, particularly with a kid who hasn't done much to earn a lot of leeway.

jmarie

06-25-2006, 06:56 AM

All I can say is if I had been "sick" (real or made up) all day, my folks would never have let me out. If I'm too sick to do anything else, I'm too sick to go out. And they would not have gotten all involved in any drama.

Same here. My son got into a bit of trouble at school one day and was asked to go home for the day. He was very angry with us because we wouldn't allow him to participate in riding his class float that he helped build, for the homecoming parade, that night, but oh well. We told him the deal, he copped an attitude. He argued, argued amd argued and we just calmly said "No". We stood firm and that was the only and last time he got in trouble at school.

If she wants to be dramatic, ignore it. DO NOT RESPOND and try to talk her into accepting what rules you have laid down. Just say no.

I wish you the best, because I know it isn't easy.
J

doggerham

06-25-2006, 04:43 PM

Hey luv2cook -- if you need to run away, I only as far as the Houston Heights, and I have wine and chocolate!

Amy

Terri_A

06-25-2006, 05:53 PM

Hey luv2cook -- if you need to run away, I only as far as the Houston Heights, and I have wine and chocolate!

Amy

I'm just North of the Heights...if you're opening a bottle of wine...I wanna come!!!! :D

luv2cook

06-26-2006, 08:28 AM

If I hadn't had a friend over last night until 10:45 p, I would have taken you up on that! cripes.

DH and I feel like she orchestrated the whole thing and dragged Amy into it to her tagalong. Amy said she didn't really even like the guy. I have no problem with the guy showering, but why is Amy the middle girl? If she was asked out, wouldn't she knw he was in the shower?

The fact that she was dropped off 2 houses down under the pretense of "she knew what was coming" is just crap. We've never given any guy out side the third degree and weren't going to with this guy. That was hinky.

DH and I have no problem with her having friends outside of HS if she went to school with them. K doesn't know this guy, to my understanding. He was a senior, she was a freshman. (if he even went to same HS). We thoroughly expect that next summer she will be hanging w/kids out of HS but at least she knows them!

Also, kids out of HS have certain privilieges that she doesn't have and won't have.

Today she calls me at 9:00 a.m. to come get her from summer school. I offer her some Midol, she doesn't want any, she wants to come home. I told her no, that she coudn't afford to miss a day. You can only miss one day. I personally think she's very tired becuse she was on the phone past midnight last night and she doesn't want any help, just get out of school.

I said no. She calls back. I dont' answer and she leave VM, telling me I "better come" get her, that it's not getting any better. If I do get her, which obviously I haven't because I'm still here, she will have no phone, tv or stereo privilieges and have to stay in her room all day. she did this last year, too. Miraculously improved by dinnertime...

Edited to add: I did end up going to get her at 10. I told her about the above, she said that was retarded. I told her I didn't want to hear any more commentary and the next time she told me something was stupid, retarded or whatever, she was grounded.

I told her that this counted as an absence (you can only have one) and if she got really sick, she's going to have to go or lose credit and she said that wasn't so. She said that was her problem. I said do you think they're going to rewrite the rules for you? She's missing a quiz, classswork grades, 2 tests just today!

What's funny is I told her if she pulled off another A, I would add another $100 to her back to school shopping. I've also been making a big deal out of her grade and how well she's done. I gave her the opportunity to tell my gf about school and she wouldn't. So I did and K says, "it's not a big deal." yeah right!

learningtocook

06-26-2006, 01:20 PM

There have been times when friends of mine have had plans to meet up with a guy, but haven't wanted to go alone. So, we would go and meet him and his friends out. Then it becomes more of a group thing that doesn't have as much pressure as a date would have. Maybe that's what K wanted to do and just asked Amy to go along.

I gave her the opportunity to tell my gf about school and she wouldn't. So I did and K says, "it's not a big deal." yeah right!

maybe she was just embarassed about drawing so much attention to herself--I bet you making a big deal out of being proud of her good grades meant a lot more to her then she let on.

luv2cook

06-26-2006, 02:02 PM

yeah, we asked her to explain the difference between "going out" and "dating." Apparently it's different for this generation.

I have no problem w/group dating; however -- never mind. I can't explain it. I felt like Amy was a pawn in this whole setup supported by her telling me she's "so confused."

DH and I will sit down w/her again and try to smooth things over and allay some of her concerns/allegations -- we don't want her to go out; no guy is good enough. We want to address those. I did tell her that night that I found that insulting. If I didn't want her to go out, I would have held her to the grindstone because she didn't finish her chores BUT I felt it was important for her to go out.

she also changed the he asked me out on a date to going out, and she wanted money from us. She has lost her allowance and hasn't worked but 2 days in 2 weeks. Nor has she asked to earn any money. We have given her money in the past when she didn't have any so she could go out, but where do you draw the line? The sad thing is she didn't have to lose her allowance. She got dinged for not doing what she needed to do to the point she's now into July. It's just stupid. You would think we had her scrubbing floors!

pattyp.

06-26-2006, 05:54 PM

I hope you got my PM, I have been having computer problems and couldn't finish. Feel free to respond.

Beth

06-26-2006, 08:26 PM

When you give a consequence, you have to make it stick. No letting it slide when she hasn't done her chores. No going around it by handing out money later. It has to mean something and it's going to hurt -- that's the point. And it will be hard on you too, but you have to do it.

You might also consider giving her more chances to earn smaller prizes rather than loading up one thing that she might be afraid she can't do well enough to get. It hurts less if they don't try and fail, so sometimes they won't try and dissapoint you rather than try and risk humiliation too. We've seen that happen here.

luv2cook

06-27-2006, 01:42 PM

You might also consider giving her more chances to earn smaller prizes rather than loading up one thing that she might be afraid she can't do well enough to get

I get this, but I can't seem to think of anything that would be smaller.

also, she told her geometry teacher she couldn't do her makeup work tonight because she had to work. He told her to make her choice. she does't go to work until 6. She was under the impression that she could turn it in later when I asked her about working. So she's getting a taste of what next year is going to be right. Who cares if she works? The AP teachers aren't going to.

She also can't get out the door in the a.m. I mean, today, I thought for sure she was going to be late. I need to find a way to motivate her to understand that screwing off, not getting her business done, puts her to bed later and therefore she can't get up in the a.m. OR screwing off means you don't get your chores done which is now going to result in not going out - which I hate to do because she hasn't been going out. sigh.

badunnin

06-27-2006, 01:46 PM

I get this, but I can't seem to think of anything that would be smaller.

I'm sorry, but there has to be something less than $100 worth. A cheap manicure at the local salon. A small tanning package. A pint of her favourite ice cream, a new pair of earrings, you spring for pizza and a movie if she wants to have friends over....

As far as not getting out the door, she's completely normal in that regard. First hour I routinely have 1/4 of my class late. Teens need A LOT of sleep, but are trying to assert their independence away from "bedtimes". Pick your battles, pick your battles....

tbb113

06-27-2006, 02:24 PM

As far as not getting out the door, she's completely normal in that regard. First hour I routinely have 1/4 of my class late. Teens need A LOT of sleep, but are trying to assert their independence away from "bedtimes". Pick your battles, pick your battles....

Thank you for saying this. My older son was consistently late to his first period class this year. I know it is up to him to make it out the door and I wouldn't excuse him. He is repeating the class since the tardies brought his participation grade down and affected his semester grade :rolleyes: Hopefully the lesson has been learned

luv2cook

06-27-2006, 06:52 PM

okay. I get it. yes, pick my battles...I get it! I hear you. I will try and constantly remember that.

Where's my wine & chocolate? :p

She called and asked me for Amy's number to call her during her break. I bet she's planning something, which is fine, as long as her business is done. Her room looks pretty good (and I told her so) so she shouldn't have to spend that much time in there...

The one thing I hate, tho, is her not telling me about stuff. I mean, she knew she had to work today and didn't mention it. I have already told her I would like to know her schedule.

I'm glad the getting up thing is normal. I just never had these issues!

Wish me luck tomorrow - I am trying out a new hairstylist who is going to use me as a teaching tool to train other stylists. My guy is in Hawaii and won't be back and I'm desperate - besides, it doesn't hurt to try someone new. If he screws up my color, I'll just get my guy to fix it. He was referring his clients to another stylist there, but (a) I don't like HER hair (b) I didn't want to stare at her chest for 2 hours - she wears reallllllllllly low cut stuff, I'll leave it at that :eek:

Laura

06-27-2006, 07:56 PM

Just a comment; last week DD was REALLY bugging me; it seemed as if she had an attitude with almost everything, she made some bad decisions re work, and she just seemed self-absorbed. Thus, as a result even the minor things were bugging me.

Today she called up my SO and asked him to go to lunch. They talked about a lot of stuff for over two hours. He called me after to say, "you have a really great daughter." Yes she is 16, yes she is a pain in the butt sometimes, yes she is self-absorbed, but you have a great kid.

I realized that last week I just held her in a bad light, and it made even the minor things seem bad.

Luv2Cook, you are in a much different situation than I am, but as a mom of a kid who generally has it together, I know that I allowed myself to start being bugged just because I cast her as this self-absorbed 16 year old girl. I really needed my SO to remind of the good things (and there are many) with my DD. I know your DD has struggles, but when you can, remind yourself of the good in her. Maybe it's little things like how she treats your pets, or how she takes care of her skin, whatever, but focusing on the good, might help in dealing with the not so good.

luv2cook

06-28-2006, 07:47 AM

sugarbaby

06-28-2006, 10:45 AM

True. I do need to look at more of the positive than the negative. Last week was fairly good and we really didn't have any disagreements and spoke nicely to each other. She got stars on the calendar each day, I believe. That's a good thing. At the end of the week, she gets a reward, which she did. She got 3 shirts and a jacket (on sale) at A&F.

This week, she's starting to go down the negative slope. Every day this week, she has gotten up at 7:10 (today 7:20) for school that starts at 7:30. She says her alarm doesn't go off. She has two. Today, after being late for school -- now the incentive is off because now she HAS to take the final -- we talked about it. It's the alarm's fault, not her. I suggested that she reverse the alarms and use the red one (which always goes off) to be her get-up alarm. I asked her if staying up late every night had anything to do with it. nope.

She chose to miss school Monday which put her behind. She went to work last night rather than do a 3-hr homework assignment. She hasn't stretched, ran or worked out, and I got a bill for gymnastics because she didn't turn in her drop out slip. At 11:00 p.m. last night, she asked me if I recorded her show. I said I did. I said, are you going to watch it 2nite? She said she couldn't wait. I haven't said a word about any of it except the gymnastics bill. DH said we're not going to pay it and she's not going anymore and to talk to him if she asks about it. She didn't feed the dogs last night, I did.

She wants to learn things for herself. I said to her this a.m. that if she doesn't learn from when things go wrong, her life is going to be much more difficult than it has to be. I told her that if she ever wanted to drive to school, she was going to have to fix this getting up problem (yes, I know all teenagers have a problem) but I'm not going to have her going to school trying to put her makeup on when she's driving. It takes her an hour and a half to put on base, eye shadow and liner! it's absurd!

During the school year, we tried to have her go to bed by 11, but she managed to screw off and never get to bed. I'm thinking of telling her no phone after 10 and lights out before midnight. This is ridiculous. She wants to do her own thing, independence, I understand, but where do you draw the line?

I'm not a parent, so I'm not sure how much my 2 cents is worth! But I do teach 15 year-olds, and I've read a bit on Love and Logic and attended some training on it. During the L&L training the guy gave an example of parents with a daughter who didn't want to go to bed on time. What they ended up doing was saying she had to be in her bedroom by a certain time. Whether or not she went to sleep was up to her, but she still had to get up and be to school on time.

When the daughter wasn't ready to leave for school - and the mom was driving - the mom said, "You can either come with me now as you are, or not." The daughter chose "not", and the mom called a truancy officer on her. The next time the daughter wasn't ready on time, she went to school "as is" - hair disheveled, no makeup. The next day she wasn't late. Every kid is also different, so what works for one parent won't work for all.

One thing I've noticed as a teacher: sometimes failure is the best thing for kids (or adults!). I'm not at all saying you and your DH are doing this, but when I've seen parents stop "rescuing" their kids and they let their kids fail at something for the first time, that's usually when the kids "get it."

I've also had students who are chronically late - and it affects their grade in my class - whose parents got fed up and started walking their kids to class and made sure all their friends saw it! Embarrassment really helped these kids.

IMHO, your DH is right in that you shouldn't pay the gymnastics bill.

(((((luv2cook))))))

zwieback

06-28-2006, 11:30 AM

I haven't read through this entire thread so, I can't say I know the whole story here. But, what stuck out with me is that you're putting stars on a calendar for an 18 year old (or almost 18)? I understand that she's acting like a child but, she is almost 18. And, I understand the act like a child, be treated as a child. But, stars on the calendar?

I agree with everything sugarbaby said. I think, from what I've read, that your daughter needs more consequences.

Good luck with everything.

ETA -- I just read the last paragraph of your previous post where you said you are considering telling her no phone after 10 and she wants her independence and where do you draw the line? I'd definitely tell her no talking on the phone after 10 (perhaps even after 8 or 9). That's just respectful to the entire household she's calling. As for the doing her own thing and where do you draw the line, you draw the line at whatever rules you set. No breaking the rules. Period. Independence, at least responsible independence, doesn't come from doing whatever you want whenever you want. It's something that is learned and earned. If she can't follow your rules, she won't know how to follow the rules when she out there living and working "in the real world".

sneezles

06-28-2006, 11:59 AM

Can I make one suggestion (again the mother of boys but have successfully raised 3)...give her back her room and by that I mean let her keep how she wants! There were 2 things I never argued about...the state of their rooms and how they chose to wear their hair. I also did not do their laundry. Once they entered junior high they got a lesson on the machines and folding. They each had their own hampers-2- one for whites and the other for the rest (not my concern if they didn't use them ;) ) and by freshman year they were on their own. Now once I noticed that DS#1 spent part of his paycheck buying c boxers and socks when I mentioned that if he needed new ones I would be happy to buy them. He admitted he hadn't done his laundry and was out of clean ones...that was the only time he bought his own clothes as laundry was done every weekend after that! :p

If you want her to have chores then give her something to do with the public areas of the house. Cat boxes, feeding the cats, vacuuming & dusting but give her freedom with her room...total freedom...just ask that she keep the door shut! ;)

badunnin

06-28-2006, 12:13 PM

luv2cook

06-28-2006, 04:26 PM

Sorry, Sneezles, just can't do that. I am not going to have half of my dishes, trash from leftover food, cans, bottles, bags, and whatever else has been in there. She has extreme piggy habits and that is not acceptable to me.

I repeat, we're going down the slippery negative slope. Got this from her teacher today:
Good morning.
Due to K's absence last Monday, she is still missing 1 homework and 1 class work grades. I gave her the handouts yesterday and told her that she may turn in these assignments today. She said she can't because she has to work last night. She was able to take the missed tests and quizzes, though. She came late to class today. I was halfway with the first lesson when she came. She had a lot of questions about the sample problems that I was working on for the class, mostly the basic math concepts and skills. I had to ask somebody to work with her so I could move on with the next lesson for the rest of the students. As I was presenting the lessons and working on sample problems for the class, she was looking at the floor most of the times. She looked tired and sleepy. I checked on her after a while to see her progress. She did not understand most part of the lesson. She did not take the first test. Also, she did not turn in 1 missing home works and 1 class work. With zeros on these grades, her current term grade is a 56.45.
I am required to turn in the progress report grade by 3:00 pm today. The kite project is due tomorrow. This project was assigned last Thursday, June 22. I took the class to the library to research on making a kite the last period of that day. This project is counted as a test grade. Lately, Kristen has been getting too frustrated with the lessons. I feel that she is not comprehending most part of the lessons. Does she have time to study at home? She may study in advance or redo the sample and class exercises if she needs more parctice. How else may I help her? Thanks

She was home by 9:30 and the reason she's sleepy is becaues she's not going to bed; hence the 11:00 rule.

sneezles

06-28-2006, 04:49 PM

I can understand about the dishes and food. I don't allow eating in the bedrooms(there are some house rules ;) ).

Seems like she's trying to foil her earlier success and she may have to have all activities suspended (aka grounding), it happens to the best of them. And while she's not going to like, claim your micromanaging her life and deny any responsibility for her grade...tough sh!t honey...she was given the chance and she blew it! There are consequences for a reason and after reading the email from her teacher she needs to suffer some of them!

I think you are going to have to stop worrying about how she feels about you. You are the parent and there are times when she's going to hate you (or at least say and think it). My guys will tell you that I was very strict when it came to behavior and grades. If that meant no driving, no phone, no going out then so be it. She has shown she's capable of doing the work she's simply chosen to not do it and that's unacceptable, period!

Trust is a two way street!