Help!!! Young siblings fighting!

[Robyncz]

A quick history. I'm an only child. I have two DDs, ages 5 and 6. They are fun, outgoing, smart girls who get along with other children and are pretty darn well behaved. Until this summer, that is. They have started bickering about *everything* and it's making me NUTS! They've developed a clear dynamic. DD1 tells DD2 what to do. If DD2 does it, everything is peachy. If DD2 doesn't want to do it, she refuses (contentiously). Then DD1 gets out of sorts and runs crying to her room. This happens all day long about ridiculous things like which game to play, which show to watch, which book to read, who gets to sit where on the sofa. . .

They're not *fighting* physically, but they clearly don't know how to negotiate with one another in any sort of useful or meaningful way.

I suspect this is normal, but since I didn't grow up with siblings, I don't know what, if anything, I should be doing about it. DH, who grew up with 5 sibs, generally yells at them (well, not "yells" so much as talks sternly at them), but I don't see what good that does.

What should we be doing to help them learn to cope with one another without hating each other? I'd appreciate any persective you can give me.

Thanks!

[BucknellAlum]

No real help here, as I was an only child too, and I struggle with this with my 2 kids.

But, the newsstand issue of Time magazine has a cover story on how siblings make you who you are. (Don't know what that makes us!) It is full of info on how sibling fighting is normal and helpful in the growing up process, even helpful later on as adults tread the office politics circles, etc.

Most of the parenting advice I read seems to favor not getting too involved unless there is bloodshed, and letting the kids work out a lot of things themselves. Drawing you into it changes the dynamics and you can become part of the struggle.

If you are going to try to intervene, I would do it with a broad policy, like on even numbered days DD1 gets to make all the choices and on odd numbered, DD2. If you start to quibble over "you picked the TV show so she now picks the book", I think you will escalate things, from my experience.

[cookieee]

Well, as the oldest of three, (younger brother and youngest was my sister) your 6 year old is just feeling her oates as we oldtimers like to say. She is just getting into the "I'm older, do as I say" stage. Been there, done that. Your children are old enought to have a little talk with them about that. Explain where being older might mean helping to look out for her younger sister, but not telling her what to do. She has to learn where to draw the line of "older sister". I don't know if any of this will help, but I had to add my 2 cents. Good luck, Joan

[Grace]

My younger sister and I bickered incessantly for years. And years. And years. It was so bad, my grandparents wouldn't let us come to visit at the same time. We had to go one at a time. My mother got so fed up once she took us each by the hair and whacked our heads together. :eek: Ouch. (And my Mom never hit us ever before or after that - she's always been completely non-violent).

I was mean to my younger sister. I used to instigate things and harrass her terribly. If she didn't do what I told her to, I'd threaten her with not being her sister anymore. She'd cry and do whatever I said. Until she figured out I couldn't just not be her sister, but then I thought quickly and told her I'd go to the hospital to change my blood. That worked awhile longer. :rolleyes:

The dynamic between us was built by our parents (not saying this is what you are doing). Dad favored my little sister big time (everyone admits to this even now). The whole house was very dysfunctional though, and there was lots of fighting just in general, and Dad had anger management problems and was easily put into a fit of rage. My parents divorced when I was 9. More instability, confusion, fear and insecurity. I was just acting out, and crap rolls downhill as the saying goes, so my poor little sister got whatever I could get away with dishing out. It was just my way of trying to control one small portion of my little world, since all of the rest of it was completely out of my control (and I have since grown up to be a control freak - but that's another thread!). But since my sister was favored, she walked around with a HUGE air of superiority that drove me into fits practically. She is 4 years younger and I couldn't stand that she acted like she knew better about absolutely everything. So that was her way of pushing my buttons.

Our relationship as adults has never been much of one. We are getting along now, to a degree (we don't really fight anymore, but we both walk around on eggshells with each other to avoid pushing each other's buttons), but we were never really close, so I don't know if I buy into that Time article that says it's a good thing and helpful with one's future.

Bottom line is I don't know what's normal and what's not, since our youth wasn't really normal, and our end result as grown ups isn't that good. Sorry if that sounds like a downer or like I'm trying to make you worry. I only intended to throw my own experiences out there to show what some of the possibilities are. My situation may bear no resemblance at all to your kids'.

I wish I had answers for it. No one seemed to have any when I was growing up, and now it's all old history and no one addresses it anymore, even though the residual effects are still there. I really hope you are able to find answers. There must be some books out there or something? There must be some way to get them to work together on things? Praise them a lot when they DO share or get along? I don't know.

[sneezles]

It sounds like DD#2 is starting to display some independence from her older sister and DD#1 seems to be having a hard time accepting the fact she can't be the boss all the time. It's a cruel world when you discover you're not the center of it! ;)

As the mother of 3 boys I can tell you that sibling bickering is quite normal. I had some rules that were strictly enforced but I pretty much stayed out of the quarrels.

Rules-

1. You are not allowed to touch someone you are mad at, period!
2. You are not allowed to touch the other person's things!
3. You may not call the other person names.
4. You may not come whining to Mom or Dad when you are mad at your brother/brothers.
5. No door slamming.
6. Only inside voices.

There were times that we had them "discuss" the problem with one of us as the referee (usually me) and sometimes it took a great deal of effort on my part not to interfere. I will say that it paid off as they are now pretty good friends and I thought I'd never say that about the younger 2!

[clairea]

My kids are just a bit older than yours, and usually get along pretty well but can certainly get into it from time to time. In our case DD (6) is the one bossing around her older brother, and I am pretty sure the only reason they don't fight more often is that most of the time he does whatever she tells him too :rolleyes: In any event, it is completely normal but it can drive you out of your mind to listen to it! My rules are pretty similar to the ones Sneezles posted. Also, my kids know my tolerance for listening to the bickering is pretty low, so know that if it goes on for too long they will both be sent to their rooms for a "cooling off period." If I have to get to that point, I don't impose any other punishment in their rooms -- they can read, play, whatever (they don't have TV, video games, etc. in their rooms) since the point is really just to get themselves under control. Of course, if any of the rules were broken (hitting, name-calling) consequences will be imposed for that.

I think sibling relationships are a great resource for kids to learn how to negotiate relationships with others, and bickering is part of that. However, you do have to strike a balance between letting some of that happen and going insane! For me, this system works and keeps things under control without me getting in the middle of things.

[MrsReber]

I agree- don't get too involved inless there is physical fighting. I keep my distance and tell my kids (ages 4 and 5) to figure out how to play nicely or they won't play with each other at all. Sometimes they'll go their separate ways, but most of the time, they figure out a solution to the problem. DD is the older one. She's gotten quite good at negotiating.

I've been using this tactic for quite a while. At first, I would make suggestions like "you can play this game first and then play the game DS picked out later." or "That's DS's new toy. Once he's had a chance to play with it, he'll let you borrow it." They're very good at sharing and they will point out when other children aren't sharing nicely.

Of course, they still have their off days where they can only fight with each other. I can usually trace it to lack of sleep or hunger, but then there are days that they're just in a bad mood and there's nothing I can do about it.

By the way, I'm the youngest of three siblings and me and my brother used to fight like crazy! He's 4 years older than me. Now we get along great and I've grown much closer to my sister who is 3 years older than me. I also have to half siblings, but they're much younger (23 and 18) and we didn't live together. In any event, I love having sibs and I think it's a great thing. I read that Time article. It was pretty interesting!

[gertdog]

I agree- don't get too involved inless there is physical fighting. I keep my distance and tell my kids (ages 4 and 5) to figure out how to play nicely or they won't play with each other at all.


I only have one child right now, but MrsReber's strategy worked really, really well for the two brothers I used to babysit- they were one year apart in age (this was their parents' strategy, and one they asked me to employ while babysitting). If they were bickering and getting upset with each other, I'd just tell them that if they couldn't settle it, then they'd have to go play in separate rooms, and I was willing to enforce that. It also worked well for things like picking a video to watch or book to read before bed- if they couldn't agree, there wouldn't be a video or book at all. They got very good at negotiating and compromising at a young age. If DS ends up with a sibling, I hope this strategy will work on them too! ;)

[Leslie Ferguson]

Two caveats - (1) my wife and I don't have children, (2) I was a willing participant in a sibling rivalry and fighting with my brother for most of 16 years so I have a skewed perspective of sibling fighting. With those two tokens...

It has been my experience that when the two sibling in question/involved are of the same sex and very close in age (my brother and I were <2 years apart) the altercations tend to be very vocal and based on picky little things. My brother and I verbally fought often, wrestled often, but never came to physical blows (that I remember). The rules of the house were as sneezles listed (but that didn't matter some times) and the punishment for violation was being sent to our rooms. Divvying up things to do was hard but sharing and making us come to a mutually agreeable solution was the biggest thing my parents enforced. They were very good at not playing favorites (even when my younger sister became involved 6.5 years later) and refereeing as necessary. I seem to remember (through ~30 years) that there were times when the answer from the ref was - since you can't work anything out between yourselves nicely then neither of you gets what you want. PERIOD.

Honestly, the rivalry probably won't cause them to hate each other as long as you keep things fair and equitable. My wife's rivalries and fighting was allowed to come to bloodshed (her sisters were her rivals and they scratched each other often). even though my brother and I fought and disliked each other through high school we ended up going to college together and have since become good friends. The best I can add it try to keep it "civil" and unbiased and you'll probably be in better stead when all is said and done.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Peace,
Les

[MikeC]

Most of this sounds so very normal to me!

My sister was born 18 months after I was, so we are close in age. We fought like cats and dogs growing up -- almost never touching each other, just verbal bickering and arguing. Our parents both worked and so a couple of days during the week in the summers, we would spend the day at my mother's parents house. We drove our grandmother to tears on many more than one occasion.

I think one learns so much growing up with siblings.

My sister and I are in our fifties, and we now share a house together.

[Goin' Coastal]

This is what I did and it worked very well for us. I, too, have 2 daughters just 14 months apart. And sibling bickering happens. One has an even date for her birthday, and the other an odd. If the were bickering, making a decision about something, or really, anything that caused conflict - it was decided by the even-odd method. If the date was an even #, the daughter with the even birthdate got to have her way or decision, and if the date was an odd #, the other daughter chose. It ended arguments very quickly. All I needed to say when I heard them arguing was "what's the date?" They didn't always like the result, but they knew that was "the rule" and they followed it. They realized it was fair, and knew 50% of the time it was their date. We also used it for chores - emptying the dishwasher, taking out trash, whatever. It really did work very well and it worked for years. The only time it was a problem was the 31st of the month - 2 odd days in a row wasn't good!

[mrswaz]

Like others have said, your girls are definitely old enough to sit down with them and discuss the situation. One of the things that Gertdog mentioned is one I use almost every day and it works like you wouldn't believe. When they are going to do an activity together and a choice needs to be made, they must agree on a choice, or they will lose the activity altogether. If the kids want to watch a video, they know they have to agree on one, or they won't get to watch anything. It is amazing to listen to their conversations from the other room. They do still occasionally fight, but their little conversations about compromising are priceless. And sometimes they will do something to completely surprise you- like the older DD announcing that younger sibling may pick the movie of their choice.

I bet you could sit down with your girls, talk about learning to negotiate better and get along better, and I would suggest asking them for input. Make a list of family rules- and include their choices for rules, regardless of how silly. And as long as they are helping to make the rules, you could also ask their input on appropriate punishment for breaking the rules. Including both of them equally in such a thing will help them see that their sibling is not the favorite, and vice versa.

[Robyncz]

Thanks for the perspective. After I posted yesterday, the rest of the day was perfectly fine. Maybe it's ME who needs to develop appropriate coping skills. They seem to be doing what 5 and 6 year old siblings do. . .

[me-AJ18]

hi, my name is Amanda i am 18, i am number 3 of 4 sisters my oldest two sisters are 23 & 25 an my little sister is 8 (same parents all of us) we all had fights at different times, my eldest sisters faught are close in age so used to fight all the time about other things, my eldest sister used to fight and use the "im the oldest" thing, we all went through the love hate relation ships while we grew up, our parents had a few rules but mostly left us to it (it was never very physical) my older sisters are now very close and my relation ship with them is improving, even though their is 10yrs between us and i am at college after a few days me an my little sister do sometimes fight, but everyone usually gets over it, as long as my parents dont side tooo often with one over the other AND never compare kids between each other in any way its good, basically i have had thousands of fights with my sisters while growing up, and i sometimes they drive me up the wall, BUT the fights have helped so much with friends and i always feel sorry and can belive what it would be like to be an only child or only one of two :D snt worry siblings fight, but they learn while doing it!

[aggie94]

:confused:

[Robyncz]

Wow. That was an unexpected blast from the past. Definitely an unexpected post to bring up as one's first post on the Cooking Light Boards. . .

[Robyn1007]

:confused:

No kidding.

Well, Robyn, you might as well give us an update, how are the girls doing? :D

[Robyncz]

You know, sometimes they get along great, and sometimes the bicker. They are 6 1/2 and 8 now, and the things they bicker about have changed. DD1 really needs alone time each day and DD2 can't stand to be alone, so that's an ongoing point of negotiation. But the silly little stuff, like who sits on which part of the sofa, seems to be in the past--for now.

NOW they bicker about friends. DD1 is pretty earnest. DD2 is all bubbly fun. When DD1 has a friend over to play, there is inevitably a moment where DD1 gets upset because the friend is playing with DD2--which, of course, perpetuates the problem because DD1 starts sulking and the friend and DD2 just keep on having fun. That's our big struggle right now.

Well, that and the fact that they have been wrestling like farmboys lately--and it starts out fun but someone always ends up getting hurt.

But mostly they play together pretty well.

The funny thing is that I don't even remember starting this thread. I vaguely remember the period in question--and a week or so over that summer where all they did was fight. It must have seemed huge for me to post about it, but now it doesn't seem like it could have been that big a deal!

Funny thing, perspective!

[Puppylove]

She's 18 - give her a break ;)

Manda - you should post an introduction to yourself on the "other stuff" board - "Hi my name is . . . I really enjoy cooking(?), etc" That way we can get to know you a little.

Robyn - my sister and I are barely 2 years apart and we fought like cats often as kids. I would definately NOT do the "your the big sister and this is what that means" thing. They are two close in age for that, it might work while their 6/5 but when they're in jr high and hs that'll set them up for a totally unrealistic relationship. They'll both probably have friends younger and older than each other. I don't have kids but I know what has helped my sister and I evolve in our relationship is the friend dynamic. If I wouldn't treat my friend that way then why would I treat my family that way. If DD1 wouldn't try to boss her friend around than why should she try to boss her sister around? Remind her that nobody likes a bully and remind DD2 that nobody like a crybaby. Those kind of things helped us get some perspective , hope it gets better! And wow! some PP's had some awesome ideas - I love the even/odd days idea!

[leightx]

This is what I did and it worked very well for us. I, too, have 2 daughters just 14 months apart. And sibling bickering happens. One has an even date for her birthday, and the other an odd. If the were bickering, making a decision about something, or really, anything that caused conflict - it was decided by the even-odd method.

Well, I'm glad this was bumped, so I had the chance to thank Goin' Coastal for her even/odd method! I knew I found the idea here, but couldn't remember who had suggested it. We've been using it for well over a year now, and it has greatly reduced the amount of bickering in the house (especially related to those daily tasks like setting the table, feeding the dogs, etc). I've even had a couple of friends adopt the method as well.

One thing that struck me after reading through this thread again is something I read recently, I think it was in the book Siblings without Rivalry. My previous approach to bickering and fighting was to ignore it and let the kids work it out. In the book, it was suggested that kids really don't have the skills for conflict resolution, and that it needed to be modeled and practiced with them. For some reason, this never really occurred to me :o (I also grew up as an only child, so I didn't have any real-life practice). So as much as I'd love to let the kids "work it out themselves," we've been taking a more proactive approach until they can figure out how to do it on their own. We talk about listening to the other person, and trying to understand their point of view (even if they don't agree), and then try to come up with a solution that everyone is ok with. Naturally, we only do this for the "big" fights - not so much the little things like whose turn it is to get on the computer next.

[Robyncz]

Heheheh.

We TRIED the even/odd thing, but they both have even birthdays in odd months, so we couldn't ever remember who was "even" and who was "odd." But even as I type this, I just realized DD1 could be "odd" because she's child number 1, and DD2 could be "even" because she's child number 2.

D@mn. And it only took me a year and a half to figure that out.

[RunnerKim]

Okay it maybe it just us but we also do the even/odd thing but has no one had a problem with the months that have 31 days? "It's was just Jamie's day yesterday!!"

*My* problem is I never know what the date is. :rolleyes: And my kids are still to young to really remember for themselves yet. The issue always seems to come up when I can't access a calendar readily.

Kim

[testkitchen45]

Heheheh.

We TRIED the even/odd thing, but they both have even birthdays in odd months, so we couldn't ever remember who was "even" and who was "odd." But even as I type this, I just realized DD1 could be "odd" because she's child number 1, and DD2 could be "even" because she's child number 2.

D@mn. And it only took me a year and a half to figure that out.

And it took you, not me to figure it out--I was sitting here wondering how to apply this great idea when they're twins. :confused: :D

[leightx]

I think you ladies are overthinking this ;) :p - I arbitrarily decided that DD was odd and DS was even (nothing to do with birthdays, which are in fact opposite), and they've remembered themselves ever since! :D We have a calendar on the fridge so we can all remember if it's an even or an odd day, but DD is pretty anal and keeps track of it for the entire family.

[barbara-cook]

I met my now-step-daughters when they were 6 and 8. My son was 5 at the time. The girls were practically joined at the hip. But when they got on each other's nerves, it would make me crazy. It would go on and on and on about NOTHING! Who's turn it was to sit in the middle (in the car), who had to clear the table, who got to sit next to Dad at dinner, who sat there last! Who had more time on the video game or the computer.

Then when they got a little bit older, they would get mean to eachother. They are now 20 and 17 (almost 18). Just after Christmas, they had a knock-down, drag-out fight (at their mom's house - I probably would've killed them both if they'd done it here!). They both called their Dad complaining about the other, the situation at their mom's house, etc. ect. etc. Two days later, the younger one says "Well, Dad we made up! We're fine now!" Like it was no big deal that their Dad was really worried about them!

My son, being mostly an "only child" (since they lived with their mother), just shakes his head and thinks it's pretty silly. "Why do they fight like that?" he'd ask. I'd say that when kids are close in age, and have difference, there will be arguments and bickering.

Does it ever really end? I don't know. They spent the weekend together at the older one's college last week. So, they blow hot and cold I guess! And I guess they'll be close some times and angry at each other other times. Sneezles had some pretty good ground rules, so I hope they've been incorporated as needed.