I have questions, and I want answers!

[GingerPow]

There are some things in this world that do not make sense to me. If you have an answer to any of these, I will happily read them...

1. Why do the t.v. commercials for any type of cleaning products feature women (usually in tan slacks) 99.9% of the time?
Do they not realize that men actually DO scrub a toilet from time to time? Is a vag!n@ a necessary piece of cleaning equipment?

2. How were human beings supposed to clean ear wax from their ears before the invention of ear candles, ear drops, bulb syringes, hydrogen peroxide or warm water?
How do the Aborigines or the African Maasi clean their ears? Were the cavemen virtually deaf from build up?

3. Who decided that women's swimwear should be little and show alot, and guys swimwear could be a pair of big old baggy trunks to their knees, and a shirt if they want?
They don't have to shave everywhere, yet they get to cover up the most.
Women stress more about weight and cellulite, yet our swim fashions give us very little to hide and feel comfortable in. Just because there's water does not mean I feel like running around in the equivalent of flowery underwear.
I've mentioned this before, I have pondered it for awhile.

I'll just start with three. I will have more, because I think the world is strange.

What are your questions?

[GingerPow]

P. S. Beth, you have an exemption if you want - you have enough questions to answer already!! :D

[LakeMartinGal]

Well, I suppose the answer to question one is at least fourfold: women historically do most of the cleaning; if you can clean in tan slacks and not get dirty, it must be pretty easy; women control the buying of household/grocery items, in most cases; it's not *manly* to clean a toilet! (Remember the bidet thread ;) )

Question 2 -- I think they probably used sticks with lambswool or feathers :p

Question 3 -- Men!

I'm a pretty practical person, so I don't think of these as philosophical questions... in Philosophy 101, the grad assistant asked, "When you wake up in the morning, how do you know the floor is there?" hoping to provoke a big discussion... I answered, "If the floor wasn't there, the bed would be falling." Guess I'm just not cut out for the bigger questions of life...... :o

[Aubergine]

There are some things in this world that do not make sense to me. If you have an answer to any of these, I will happily read them...

1. Why do the t.v. commercials for any type of cleaning products feature women (usually in tan slacks) 99.9% of the time?
Do they not realize that men actually DO scrub a toilet from time to time? Is a vag!n@ a necessary piece of cleaning equipment?

2. How were human beings supposed to clean ear wax from their ears before the invention of ear candles, ear drops, bulb syringes, hydrogen peroxide or warm water?
How do the Aborigines or the African Maasi clean their ears? Were the cavemen virtually deaf from build up?

3. Who decided that women's swimwear should be little and show alot, and guys swimwear could be a pair of big old baggy trunks to their knees, and a shirt if they want?
They don't have to shave everywhere, yet they get to cover up the most.
Women stress more about weight and cellulite, yet our swim fashions give us very little to hide and feel comfortable in. Just because there's water does not mean I feel like running around in the equivalent of flowery underwear.
I've mentioned this before, I have pondered it for awhile.

I'll just start with three. I will have more, because I think the world is strange.

What are your questions?

i'd rather address some of your questions, esp. starting with No. 1, and as an ad brat (my dad had an agency, and it was my initial 'career,' etc.)

---why are there so very, very, few ads/commercials of any kind, including magazines and TV, that feature black americans, in the general media?????? and why am i always startled when i see one???

---never knew ear wax was an issue, sorry, that's why i have a family doc. but!!! if you want to raise that question, you don't want to go where i will w/ it....for example, ever visited/seen a photo of a medieval castle? y'know why there are dark streaks down from the castle windows to the moat? clue: no indoor plumbing...

---re#3, Ginger, where have you been the past 10-12 ++ years?????

also, did you miss the experiment on BBC/PBS where they took now persons and put them in those roles 2 years ago? it was very enlightening, esp. how the female underwear in the late 1800's was, um.... void in the center.

wanna ask questions? how did women survive corsets???? how did anyone EVER go to the bathroom when they were wearing 12 layers of clothing??? how about stagecoaches???? how did anyone survive a formal affair with any measure of dignity in that heavy clothing, no a/c/, etc.. how did Victorian-era women surivive those impossible hairstyles and outrageously-perched humongous hats, in addition to everything else?.....

how come everyone, M & F, stopped wearing hats in the late 50's? there has been some intelligent writing about how that was the beginning of the end in terms of American morals, which i believe has some merit....seriously.

we're going into some interesting territory here, and you've met your match.:) tx for taking us to another level.

p.s. the 'ideal' of the hairless, pre-pubescent female form is actually not new (see 13th-C Cranach the Elder paintings), but it has turned to extreme and, imo, psycho proportions, tx to the internet. i guess he was way before his time, but then again, in the Middle Ages, men in their 60's routinely married girls of 13, and it has long continued in other cultures.

[mbrogier]

There are some things in this world that do not make sense to me. If you have an answer to any of these, I will happily read them...

1. Why do the t.v. commercials for any type of cleaning products feature women (usually in tan slacks) 99.9% of the time?
Do they not realize that men actually DO scrub a toilet from time to time? Is a vag!n@ a necessary piece of cleaning equipment? I once asked my mom that and got in trouble for impertinence.

2. How were human beings supposed to clean ear wax from their ears before the invention of ear candles, ear drops, bulb syringes, hydrogen peroxide or warm water?
How do the Aborigines or the African Maasi clean their ears? Were the cavemen virtually deaf from build up?

My dad had a lot of buildup that did effect his hearing. My mom also knows a girl who didn't use a q tip until she was in her late 30s. (Her mom was a nurse and used the "nothing smaller than your elbow goes in your ear" line on her as a kid.) She had so much junk in her ears she had to go to the doctor to remove it when she tried with a Q Tip... her ears started to bleed. :eek:

3. Who decided that women's swimwear should be little and show alot, and guys swimwear could be a pair of big old baggy trunks to their knees, and a shirt if they want?
They don't have to shave everywhere, yet they get to cover up the most.
Women stress more about weight and cellulite, yet our swim fashions give us very little to hide and feel comfortable in. Just because there's water does not mean I feel like running around in the equivalent of flowery underwear.
I've mentioned this before, I have pondered it for awhile.

I think the answer probably has something to do with the guilt that we women like to heap upon ourselves. :rolleyes:

I'll just start with three. I will have more, because I think the world is strange.

What are your questions?


Why must servers ask me why I didn't eat all my food? Are they going to charge me more because I didn't?

How can man who can't put two sentances together normally commentate on an entire sports event without taking a breath?

Why can't guys remember to bring you something when they're at a store (with a reminder right before they went), yet they have memorized all the trivia from something they're interested in? Do they really think we're buying that? :D

[GingerPow]

Why must servers ask me why I didn't eat all my food? Are they going to charge me more because I didn't?
Ha! I used to feel like a little kid explaining to mommy why I couldn't eat anymore.
It is a funny question, I guess they're just making sure the quality of the food was okay. Now, I just answer that the food was great, I've simply had enough.

[GingerPow]

i'd rather address some of your questions, esp. starting with No. 1, and as an ad brat (my dad had an agency, and it was my initial 'career,' etc.) That experience should provide interesting insight.


---why are there so very, very, few ads/commercials of any kind, including magazines and TV, that feature black americans, in the general media?????? and why am i always startled when i see one??? I like seeing ads where they feature a mix of people. I see that in some ads for new home communities, sometimes restaurant chains. Not fast food though - they seem to have separate commercials for whichever target audience they're aiming for.


---never knew ear wax was an issue, sorry, that's why i have a family doc..) Yes, but why is it that this beautifully designed creature known as the human body does not have an automatic ear clean-out function, as does most other parts of the body? Just how did ancient man manage it?

....for example, ever visited/seen a photo of a medieval castle? y'know why there are dark streaks down from the castle windows to the moat? clue: no indoor plumbing... I will never again look at a castle without checking below the windows.


---re#3, Ginger, where have you been the past 10-12 ++ years????? I imagine I missed much discussion regarding swim fashions. I do recall one recently on the horrors of trying on swim suits. I'm questioning this from a societal perspective. It's not logical.


also, did you miss the experiment on BBC/PBS where they took now persons and put them in those roles 2 years ago? it was very enlightening, esp. how the female underwear in the late 1800's was, um.... void in the center.
Are you referring to "Manor House?" Fantastic show. There was another where they were living in a settlement depicting early America.

how come everyone, M & F, stopped wearing hats in the late 50's? there has been some intelligent writing about how that was the beginning of the end in terms of American morals, which i believe has some merit....seriously. That's interesting, I'd like to read that. My DH's aunt wears hats with her nice outfits, and she does turn heads. People still enjoy an outfit topped off with a nice hat. It is surprising to see a man wear a fedora these days, but I have seen some, usually in the cold weather, and they look sharp. Would not mind a return to that look.


p.s. the 'ideal' of the hairless, pre-pubescent female form is actually not new (see 13th-C Cranach the Elder paintings), but it has turned to extreme and, imo, psycho proportions, tx to the internet. i guess he was way before his time, but then again, in the Middle Ages, men in their 60's routinely married girls of 13, and it has long continued in other cultures. Yes, he did depict a more slender female form than was the norm for the 1500's, although they did look proportionate.
Not only has the internet taken this to psycho proportions - I think we can thank the fashion industry & magazines for starting it. It's just a dam* shame girls/women are buying into that ethic.

It would be fun if we were all sitting around having this conversation with a big pot of coffee... That would be fun.

[CompassRose]

wanna ask questions? how did women survive corsets???? how did anyone EVER go to the bathroom when they were wearing 12 layers of clothing??? how about stagecoaches???? how did anyone survive a formal affair with any measure of dignity in that heavy clothing, no a/c/, etc.. how did Victorian-era women surivive those impossible hairstyles and outrageously-perched humongous hats, in addition to everything else?.....
I can answer this. It's not that bad, really, if your corset is properly fitted. The "wasp waist" trend was actually an extreme fad, limited to about 25 years in the late nineteenth century, and mostly practiced by silly girls (the same ones who'd wear bandaid miniskirts these days, probably). Most people's corsets only reshaped the figure somewhat. It makes you sit up very straight of course, and does limit deep breathing a bit (likely another reason why physical exercise for women wasn't a huge thing) but it's not horrid.

Going to the bathroom can also be done, with care. Just fold everything up and make sure you hold onto it! It must have been tricky in the 1870s, though, when skirts were sometimes so tight in front that the outline of one's "limbs" could be seen through them!

As for the sweat, any gathering of people must have been smelly. I used to work as a costume conservator, and we had quite a lot of authentic Victorian-era clothing. They came complete with gigantic authentic sweat marks in the pits, and even when I was there, a faint lingering odour. You can't wash most of that stuff, either, at least not the outer parts. Women's clothing, in particular, was far too ornamented, and the dyes were mostly rather fugitive (that is, they'd run like fury in water).

My question: why, even as "obesity" becomes a "disease" AND a "crisis", are marketers STILL increasing the size of their portions? (Baskin Robbins has a new "Freestyle Scoop" or something, with the slogan "Go Big.") And why do more people not pay attention to things like one of the world's biggest chocolate makers, Nestle, buying Jenny Craig? (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/19/business/main1728179.shtml?source=RSS&attr=Business_1728179)

[greysangel]

Not fast food though - they seem to have separate commercials for whichever target audience they're aiming for.
.

The most obvious (and just completely WRONG IMO) is the McDonald's "I'm lovin it" campaign. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[GingerPow]

And why do more people not pay attention to things like one of the world's biggest chocolate makers, Nestle, buying Jenny Craig? (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/19/business/main1728179.shtml?source=RSS&attr=Business_1728179)
Fascinating. Well, they are certainly covered both ways, aren't they? Help to make us fat, help to slim us down. It's like they own the see-saw and entire playground! Pretty smart move, really.


The most obvious (and just completely WRONG IMO) is the McDonald's "I'm lovin it" campaign. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I agree, cannot stand those. I guess they are trying to seem "cool" (I'm chronically unhip, so that is the best word I can come up with) but, IMHO the impression I get is just plain stupid.

[LosingIt]

Here is my question -

When I am sitting and reading a book, why do people come up to me and ask me what I'm doing? Isn't it obvious?

[Terrytx]

Here is my question -

When I am sitting and reading a book, why do people come up to me and ask me what I'm doing? Isn't it obvious?

yeah, I relate to that-and also why to they insist on carrying on a conversation, like they aren't interrupting your train of thought-sort of like if you are reading, you aren't doing anything important :confused:

[LakeMartinGal]

yeah, I relate to that-and also why to they insist on carrying on a conversation, like they aren't interrupting your train of thought-sort of like if you are reading, you aren't doing anything important :confused:
Yeah! Like, you're not interested in your book, and talking to them would be ever so much more fascinating!!!!!

And, like talking to someone who's holding a phone to their ear... if they're not talking, they're probably listening! Have you ever tried to hear two conversations at once? :( :rolleyes:

[colleency]

how did women survive corsets????
I wear a corset as a reenactor. They are supposed to provide a smooth line and reduce your waist about 2". There are people who tightlace, but today it is considered a fetish. I find wearing a corset makes it easier to stand up straight for long periods of time. As CompassRose said, tightlacing in the day was only done by people on the cutting edge of fashion.


how did anyone EVER go to the bathroom when they were wearing 12 layers of clothing???
Lift up skirts and carefully fold back. Underwear is designed to shift out of the way when you squat.


how about stagecoaches????
There was a lot of controversy about stagecoaches and women wearing hoops. They were considered dangerous by some.


how did anyone survive a formal affair with any measure of dignity in that heavy clothing, no a/c/, etc..

That heavy clothing was *mostly* worn in a cooler environment. I have no idea how the Hawaiian royalty of the 1880's survived wearing what they did. Also, buildings built in Victorian times were cooler than modern buildings (at least the ones in L.A.). They were built with the direction of the sun in mind. High windows would let the cool air in low and let the hot air escape high.


how did Victorian-era women surivive those impossible hairstyles and outrageously-perched humongous hats, in addition to everything else?.....

Hats in most of the Victorian era were fairly small. You may be thinking of Edwardian (Titanic) or the hair of 1770's (Marie Antoinette). The people that wore the truly outrageous hats or hair of any time period were usually quite wealthy. They managed because they didn't have to do much other than concentrate on looking pretty. People who didn't have at least one servant to help them manage usually kept it much more simple.


how come everyone, M & F, stopped wearing hats in the late 50's? there has been some intelligent writing about how that was the beginning of the end in terms of American morals, which i believe has some merit....seriously.

Or it could be that the decline of the hat coincided with the rise of the automobile. Seat backs became higher as an answer to safety at higher speeds, and the brims of hats would smash up against the back of a car. Have you ever tried to drive while wearing a hat, other than a baseball cap?

[ErinM]

Here's my question...

I saw this bumper sticker "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN????

And why does someone want to have this on their car???

I've been trying to figure this out for days, and nothing is coming to me. Closest I can think is that you're better off going to trial than killing yourself, since there are generally 12 members on a jury and 6 pallbearers at a funeral, but why is this important and why does someone have to have it on their car??

[tbb113]

Erin - I googled it. It is either the name of a band or their single

http://www.pahardcore.com/shop/product.cfm?intProductID=265

[badunnin]

Here's my question...

I saw this bumper sticker "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN????

And why does someone want to have this on their car???

I've been trying to figure this out for days, and nothing is coming to me. Closest I can think is that you're better off going to trial than killing yourself, since there are generally 12 members on a jury and 6 pallbearers at a funeral, but why is this important and why does someone have to have it on their car??

It's referring to self-defense, and is often used by the pro-gun folks, who believe that it would be better to have a weapon and kill someone else than to be killed.

[Aubergine]

Or it could be that the decline of the hat coincided with the rise of the automobile. Seat backs became higher as an answer to safety at higher speeds, and the brims of hats would smash up against the back of a car. Have you ever tried to drive while wearing a hat, other than a baseball cap?

hmm... much to ponder...

here's what troubles me about your hat theory: when cars began, many did not have hoods. moreover, when persons were travelling in horse-drawn carriages, and/or on horseback, they were still often wearing hats. but, i do think that one reason women's hats got so small and front-perched in the 30's and 40's may tie into your theory.

i'll have to see if i can find the info about the decline of hat-wearing. come to think of it, it's not limited to the U.S.

Ginger, yes, it was Manor House, of course.

[colleency]

Do you mean roofs? or hoods over the engine?

I'm going to assume it's roof of the car. When cars were first invented, most of them didn't have roofs. They also traveled at about the same speed as a horse and carriage. Most women tended to wear hats and scarves, which could be dangerous when they got caught in the wheels.

However, by the 1950's, when hats started to be in decline, most cars had roofs. Hats are difficult to wear in cars as the seats are higher than in a horse-drawn carriage and the roofs tend to be lower.

Probably the decline of hats, gloves, ties, etc. can also be traced to people dressing much more casually, but I do believe that the automobile has something to do with it.

[Aubergine]

colleen, yes, i meant roofs, and of course you're correct, the first cars were, what, 1-2 hp? but you still continue to raise interesting points regarding the hats/cars question.

i dunno if this is related, probably not, but possibly: i've noticed all too often in 40's films that men's ties are ridiculously short. when i finally asked an older friend, their reply was that it had to do with the fabric shortage--all (un)necessary materials going for uniforms...

wonder if that had bearing on the hat matter as well...????

[GingerPow]

Another question...

Why does Rita Cosby have a job speaking on the air? Her voice drives me crazy. Who decided that people would watch MSNBC because she is commentating? I'm sorry, she may be great at her job, and a very nice person, but I cannot imagine why she is on t.v.

[ErinM]

It's referring to self-defense, and is often used by the pro-gun folks, who believe that it would be better to have a weapon and kill someone else than to be killed.


Ah, that makes sense. The car I saw it on didn't have any other bumper sticker on it. If I had seen something related to guns, I might have caught on.

Thanks, Bethany, I can now sleep at night! ;)

[Peweh]

yeah, I relate to that-and also why to they insist on carrying on a conversation, like they aren't interrupting your train of thought-sort of like if you are reading, you aren't doing anything important :confused:

my DH and I tend to do this to each other without thinking so the standard response is "I'm just stuck here in the Same Page Cafe"... as in STOP talking to me so I STOP re-reading the same page over & over again!! :D

[colleency]

i dunno if this is related, probably not, but possibly: i've noticed all too often in 40's films that men's ties are ridiculously short. when i finally asked an older friend, their reply was that it had to do with the fabric shortage--all (un)necessary materials going for uniforms...

wonder if that had bearing on the hat matter as well...????

I'm fairly certain that the decline of the hat didn't take place in the U.S. until the 1950s. War rationing here was over almost immediately at the end of the war. If you were talking England, it might be the case, as war rationing in England wasn't over until, I believe, 1954.

[tbb113]

I always thought the President Kennedy's Inaugral address where he didn't wear a hat influenced men to stop wearing hats in the US.

[tbb113]

Okay...I'm wrong. Kennedy actually wore a hat according to Snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/jfkhat.htm

[colleency]

This was driving me crazy, so I did a small amount of research.

Theories on the decline of hat in the U.S.:

Although JFK did wear a traditional top hat during his inauguration, he almost never wore a hat at any other time, which signaled to the general public that not wearing a hat was okay.

People stopped wearing hats after WWII. (This one doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Men in WWII did wear hats, pictures of men in the late 40's often show hats, and women wore tiny, little decorative hats in the 50's. This theory also states that women who continued working after the war didn't have as much time for fashion.)

Women's hat wearing declined in the late 50's and mostly stopped in the 60's, because fancy hairstyles became popular instead.

The general public became much more casual in the 1950's.

My theory about the car doesn't seem to be borne out in anyone else's theory, but I still like it. :D

[Aubergine]

Colleen, i also like your theory, and i truly don't know whether anyone has done a comprehensive study on the matter, or, if they have, it is toooo esoteric for anyone to find. would be filed under sociology or (cultural) anthropology.

plus, i have to make a major mea culpa: i had thought it was a study i read, but then i had a (not unusual) early-wake insomniac night and it popped into my brain, around 2 am, not a study, but some well-educated, well-read, well-known person's opinion which i read a couple-3 years ago and which stuck with me.

i agree that, in a sense, the research you found doesn't add up, in 2 ways: all the 50's films have men wearing hats (and suits! even if they only owned one or two). not that we can really trust Hollywood to show us real life, but it did influence fashion.

also, i recall my dad wearing a fedora into 1960 at least. plus, i just checked with a friend b. 1935, who said that it was, " the early 60's, things started to get sloppy."

which bears out the article i recall reading, that the decline of hats = sloppiness altogether. actually, i believe it was much more of a co-occurrence, like more ice cream being sold during hot weather.

in re: JFK era and hats, i actually recall his top hat, wow! and then there was Jacqueline, and Halston's famous pillbox hat...

pulling out of more personal history, i recall hats being important in :1) matching my new winter coat and, 2) for Easter. but i also recall this ending around 1960-61...

heck, by 1963, we had the Beatles, and i was fighting w/ my mom for a pair a jeans, lol.

nonetheless, i STILL don't grasp how the stagecoach situation worked...did they just stop on the road, in the middle of nowhere, and people found a sagebush to pee behind? others averted their eyes? personaly, my guess is that, since the pioneer homes were so small, people had a broader/less strict view of modesty then.

tx, colleen, for playing cyber tennis w/ me.:)

[colleency]

nonetheless, i STILL don't grasp how the stagecoach situation worked...did they just stop on the road, in the middle of nowhere, and people found a sagebush to pee behind? others averted their eyes? personaly, my guess is that, since the pioneer homes were so small, people had a broader/less strict view of modesty then.

OMG! ROTFL! Is THAT what you meant by the "Stagecoach situation"? I could not figure out what you meant.

I'm assuming that you mean stagecoaches of the western U.S. in the mid-1800s. Stagecoaches had to stop every 10-15 miles to water and rest the horses. The stops usually had a stable to change horses as well as a water source. There were probably *usually* outhouses.

Passengers were secondary to mail, and the west was a no-frills sort of place, so I imagine that passengers may have been forced to use a handy bush on occasion.

I went to a lecture about the diary of a teenage girl being forced to travel with a wagon train by her parents. (Sounds like a modern teenager! She was determined to take civilization with her, so when her hoops on her underskirt wore out, she made new ones out of grapevine.) I think that having to go while traveling with a wagon train for months would definitely require using a handy bush...probably every day!

[Clover]

nonetheless, i STILL don't grasp how the stagecoach situation worked...did they just stop on the road, in the middle of nowhere, and people found a sagebush to pee behind? others averted their eyes? personaly, my guess is that, since the pioneer homes were so small, people had a broader/less strict view of modesty then.


This is just a guess. The stagecoaches had inns or at least stables all along the route so they could change the team of horses. Maybe the passengers, or at least the more modest ones, waited until they stopped to change the horses and used the facilities there.

[Aubergine]

well, um, yes, i dunno what to say now. i was thinking of stagecoaches in the 1800's, but any part of the U.S. i mean, we have places here in so. Jersey that were on the stagecoach route. most of what i "know" about stagecoaches is through excellent older films, but that isn't really knowledge, it's mostly guesswork, just like these persons rarely seemed to break a sweat, whereas i'm outside in a tank and shorts, dripping bullets within minutes.

so, maybe a better question would be to ask, how on earth did they make these films, outdoors in the SW desert, so that no one ever sweats? actually, having just read a history of AC, i'm betting that Hollywood studio persons were among the first folks to pick up on it, and had AC'd trailers, etc.

but, back to the 1800's. can anyone recommend a good source to read about this? forgetting about the U.S., but horse-drawn carriage travel in general, going way, way back, how did that get accomplished? did these persons develop really superior bladder, etc. control??? i guess that they must certainly have.

in a related vein, i was reading about the skinny Japanses guy who keeps winning the Nathan's contest. the doc replying to the issue stated that the stomach is a muscle, similar to the bladder, and therefore can be trained. anyone who has trained a toddler knows there's something to that.:)

[Clover]

so, maybe a better question would be to ask, how on earth did they make these films, outdoors in the SW desert, so that no one ever sweats? actually, having just read a history of AC, i'm betting that Hollywood studio persons were among the first folks to pick up on it, and had AC'd trailers, etc.
It's not hot all year round in the desert. They probably didn't film there in the summer.


but, back to the 1800's. can anyone recommend a good source to read about this? forgetting about the U.S., but horse-drawn carriage travel in general, going way, way back, how did that get accomplished? did these persons develop really superior bladder, etc. control??? i guess that they must certainly have.


Horse-drawn carriages could only travel on roads, right? So they weren't out in the middle of nowhere; there would be towns and villages all along the way. Again, I am merely surmising.

[Aubergine]

It's not hot all year round in the desert. They probably didn't film there in the summer.

thanks, that certainly answers that part of the question, except that, in the 30's, the big studios were churning out 2-3+ films/month, and many of them (25%?) were westerns.

Horse-drawn carriages could only travel on roads, right? So they weren't out in the middle of nowhere; there would be towns and villages all along the way. Again, I am merely surmising.

ok, but from what i grasp, sometimes the stretches between towns and stops might typically be 40-60+ miles, esp. in the western US. at the rate they travelled....

just dawned on me, Western Union/Wells Fargo must have a good history that relates to these questions, but there was stage travel prior to that, same like Reuters built his news empire in Europe initially on carrier pigeons, which is really a fascinating story...(and he could not have done it without his wife.:D)

[Clover]

but, back to the 1800's. can anyone recommend a good source to read about this? forgetting about the U.S., but horse-drawn carriage travel in general, going way, way back, how did that get accomplished? did these persons develop really superior bladder, etc. control??? i guess that they must certainly have.

ok, but from what i grasp, sometimes the stretches between towns and stops might typically be 40-60+ miles, esp. in the western US. at the rate they travelled....

just dawned on me, Western Union/Wells Fargo must have a good history that relates to these questions, but there was stage travel prior to that, same like Reuters built his news empire in Europe initially on carrier pigeons, which is really a fascinating story...(and he could not have done it without his wife.:D)
Well, I thought you were forgetting about the U.S. and talking about way back, and I was thinking about Europe, where towns and villages wouldn't be very far apart. Actually, I expect people were used to just going in the bushes.

Wells Fargo probably does have a lot of information about stage coaches. Do you think they go into this particular aspect of travelling by stage?

[CompassRose]

but, back to the 1800's. can anyone recommend a good source to read about this? forgetting about the U.S., but horse-drawn carriage travel in general, going way, way back, how did that get accomplished? did these persons develop really superior bladder, etc. control??? i guess that they must certainly have.
Aub, there is a lovely collection of messages relating to pre-combustion engine travel times and distances over at Stefan's Florilegium. (http://www.florilegium.org/files/TRAVEL/travel-msg.html) The Florilegium is of course a compendium of information primarily intended for the scholars of the SCA and medieval period, but they extrapolate some things from known data from the stagecoach period. And many of the more careful posters give their sources as well, so you can find some references to look up for more detail.

[Valerie226]

I have a different theory about why hats went out of style, especially for women. I'm relying on memory and our family's habits (1950's)which may or not have been true for others but I don't remember my friends being different.

People washed and "set" their hair once a week. most women had short, permed hair but after a week it was getting decidedly ratty. A lot of women had their hair "done" in a salon with loads of hairspray so it sat in place like a helmet for a week or 10 days.
We simply were not allowed to shower or wash our hair more often. Anything more was "unnecessary". setting involved rolling hair in metal curlers or pin curls. Took some time to do. Drying was a long process. hair dryers were not available except in salons. Our first hair dryer looked like something from science fiction movies with glowing coils that were hot but did not blow air. in winter, drying your hair might easily take half a day. We got an electric hair dryer with a bonnet that blew hot air sometime when I was in my early teens and this shortened drying time to more like an hour. Believe me, with this situation, slapping a hat on was simple and fast and covered a multitude of evils. my grandmother, plastered her hair down with wave gel and didn't wash it for months! yes, months! I got my first hand held dryer when I was in college. in the late 60's.
I think the demise of hats for men was more styled and longer hair for men starting in the 50's and 60's. Elvis presley. the beatles. all the teen rockers had lots of hair. and pres kennedy had fabulous hair and often did not wear a hat. I remember all the adult men in the 50's and 60's wearing hats all the time but no one( or hardly anyone) wore them after that.

[colleency]

Well, I thought you were forgetting about the U.S. and talking about way back, and I was thinking about Europe, where towns and villages wouldn't be very far apart. Actually, I expect people were used to just going in the bushes.

Wells Fargo probably does have a lot of information about stage coaches. Do you think they go into this particular aspect of travelling by stage?

Stagecoaches had to stop every 10 to 15 miles to change or water and rest the horses. There were stations that sometimes had stables and sometimes had a building with a kitchen and sometimes even beds.

[Aubergine]

Aub, there is a lovely collection of messages relating to pre-combustion engine travel times and distances over at Stefan's Florilegium. (http://www.florilegium.org/files/TRAVEL/travel-msg.html) The Florilegium is of course a compendium of information primarily intended for the scholars of the SCA and medieval period, but they extrapolate some things from known data from the stagecoach period. And many of the more careful posters give their sources as well, so you can find some references to look up for more detail.

Rose, thank you so much, sounds fascinating and i will look into it.

Valerie, i loved your take on 60's hairstyles and the demise of hats (here is where demise IS appropriate--see euphemisms thread). i recall those glued-together beehives, etc., and shower caps, and satin pillows, etc. etc. etc.

but! i still subscribe to the notion that my older friend said, that, in the early 60's, everything went haywire.