Well water, septic, and heat pumps... oh my!

[HealthyinMN]

Well... besides trying to figure out what to do with an acre of trees worth of packing paper (the moving people take the boxes, but not the paper!), we are looking for information on the above subjects. We have done some web searches, but I trust people here more ;)

Is there anything that we should be aware of with having well water as the source of water for the house?

How about septic systems - are there specific things we want to avoid when using the kitchen disposal? I've seen ads about products you are suppose to flush to keep the septic "going" - is that something we need to be doing?

And the last question - apparently we have a heat pump and a gas furnace. From what I understand, the heat pump will do most of the work and the furnace only kicks on to supplement the heating while the heat pump catches up. Is that right? We were pretty overwhelmed when the previous owner was telling us how things work while we were signing the loads of paperwork with the title company.

Neither of us has owned a house that uses these things so it is very new to us... This gas for the house is also a buried propane tank... so that is another monster we have to read up on. Oh the joys of living in a rural area - no HOAs to deal with though!

We do have some Alpacas as neighbors now which have kept us entertained as we unpack at least!

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5983/1265/1600/Alpacas8-1.jpg

[sneezles]

Hi Joe!

Have the well water tested by the Extension Office. Very important as to the quality of the water. Ours is very high in sulphur so we have a 1,500 gallon areation tank and a water softener system to improve the water (and I still have hard water rings in the toilets :mad: ).

We have an areaobic(I know I didn't spell that right) system for the new house and so I can have a disposal...I couldn't with the old house and the old septic system (one that just goes by gravity and has only one tank).

Don't know didly about heat pumps! ;)


BTA: So you have propane for gas heating, do you also have propane for cooking? Either way find out who the supplier is and make sure you're on a schedule for filling, then you don't have to call when it runs low the truck just shows up...

[mbrogier]

Heat pumps are supposed to be more efficient in mild climate areas. I'd always had those until I moved to Michigan. They do a good job of putting enough humidity in the air in the winter.

I second Sneezles suggestion of having your water tested. Depending on how long that tank has been buried, I'd consider having the ground tested to see if there's any contamination. If it's a new tank, it's ok. Older tanks can corrode and leach stuff into the ground. (don't want to poison your cute neighbors...or your well water)

Sneezles is right about the delivery scheduling. If you wanted, you could also have gas logs put in and piped back to your propane tank. My parents had that at their beach house for extra heat in the winter.

[VictoriaL]

Hope you're settling in, Joe!

We've had a septic system since moving to a rural area 23 years ago. I used to put an "additive" into it (via the toilet) to increase its efficiency but I read numerous articles which advised against that. Add some old "baking" yeast if it expires and you want to get rid of it, but otherwise the bacteria in human waste is all that is required to break down the other waste products.

As for a disposal, I was told that using it is okay except for very fiberous things (banana peels, etc.) and eggshells. Those tend to resist the bacteria's attempt to break them down into the liquid that is expelled into a leech field.

You may want to have a company come in and pump out the septic tank to "start afresh", as it were... ;) We've only had to have ours pumped out once (that was after 19 years here).

We have spring water and our county repeatedly refuses to test it since the qualities can change from day to day. However, we tempered that by installing an under-the-kitchen-sink filter which we use for our drinking and cooking water.

We have horses being boarded next door- alpacas would be much cooler!!! :D

[clairea]

The well water I can't help with. It has been a long time since I have had a septic tank (although it is a possibility when we move to TN in a few weeks). I remember always having to use single-ply toilet paper so that there would be less "bulk", and also having to be a mindful of running too much water if the ground was really wet (I still think twice about doing laundry when it is raining a lot). I'm not sure if these are really significant issues you need to worry about, or if my dad was just being extra-cautious though (he has that tendency).

You are correct about how the heat pump works. Most of the time it will provide your heat, and the gas furnace is just a backup. There is a switch inside your thermostat that allows you to change the temperature differential for when the gas furnace kicks on (you will have to take the cover off the thermostat to see this). There is also a switch on the front of the thermostat for "E/M" heat. This is your emergency mode. If the heat pump ever goes out, you should be able to flip this switch and run on just the gas furnace. I really like having the heat pump as it makes a definite difference in the gas bill and I don't have any trouble with it heating the house adequately.

[JanetB]

Re: Septic Tank - check household cleaners to ensure that they are septic safe - I am particularly freaked by the idea of our septic going south - so I won't even use a little bleach. Note that a LOT of cleaners aren't septic safe.

Re: well water - don't know about your state - but here - the water had to be tested before the sale - as part of the sale we had the sellers put in a PH neutralizer to adjust that level which was slightly off - note the sellers thought it would make a difference to me if they told us that they had been drinking the water for years and it was fine. We also found upon moving in that we have hard water - so we have a significant water softner system as well - and I too still have hard water rings in the toilets. Looks nasty.

[CompassRose]

If you have a well and a large family, you may want to implement some water conservation measures. Ask around in the neighbourhood, find out if your well ever dries.

My parents have a well, and so does everyone else there. Mysteriously, my parents' well never has dried (strange, since they're at the very top of the hill), but many other people down the lane will go dry during hot dry summers.(Then they're up with water bottles asking my mum for emergency water.)

At my mother's house, you do NOT shower every day unless you have really good reason. And you don't spend more than ten minutes, tops, in the shower, either. "If it's yellow, let it mellow," is not the kind of thing my mother will say, but if you are only in the bathroom for a minute and automatically flush, you will get the "Don't flush for just that!" as soon as you come out. (In fairness, though, one of those supersaver toilets would probably be just as good.)

Wells simply aren't unlimited. And all of this all helps with the septic tank, too, of course.

[GingerPow]

How about septic systems - are there specific things we want to avoid when using the kitchen disposal? I've seen ads about products you are suppose to flush to keep the septic "going" - is that something we need to be doing?
I primarily use my disposable for cleaning out the sink, and any small bits that remain after washing pots and pans. The larger food items go into the trash can. A garbage disposal for a septic system should have a small bottle attached to the unit that dispenses an enzyme that helps break down the waste.

Also, make sure people don't throw WADS of toilet paper and flush. It can clog the pipes to the septic tank. (As I constantly remind my family after each time the guys come out to clear the system).
We do have some Alpacas as neighbors now which have kept us entertained as we unpack at least!

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5983/1265/1600/Alpacas8-1.jpg

How cute!!
Enjoy your new home!

[lindrusso]

Alpacas - how cool! I keep seeing ads for them on TV here.

I'm sorry they didn't take the paper - what a pain!

We moved from city services to well/septic when we moved in Indiana and we have well/septic here as well.

A lot about well water will depend on what kind of water you have. Our water in IN was horrible - it smelled of sulphur (rotten eggs) and was very high in iron, so it left a yellow/orange stain on everything. My toilet in one bathroom was like tiger stripes or something!

We definitely needed a water softener in that house, but in this house the water seems fine. It tastes fine and doesn't seem to leave hard water stains, so I think we're okay here. I don't miss the sulphur and iron!

Men won't need this info necessarily, but if you have any women visiting, you can't flush any feminine products with a septic - just something that might be worth knowing. :o

To be safe, I don't use my disposal for too much - just the small bits on the plate that don't get scraped into the garbage. Even on city sewer, our pipes were always getting clogged on the kitchen sink, so I'm just very wary of putting too much down the disposal.

And just in case it's not obvious (it wasn't to me) - if your power is out, you don't have water, so you might want to stock up on water - we keep containers around, but you can also fill up tubs and such as a storm heads your way, just in case. Can be very handy for flushing toilets, etc.

We have oil heat here - I know nothing about it at all.

When we re-do the kitchen, we'll probably have a small propane tank installed so that I can finally have a gas range again. At least your tank is buried - I hate it when houses have those big old tanks sitting above ground!

Rural living takes getting used to - we're further from town than we were in Indiana and I'm having to get used to not being able to run out for that forgotten ingredient, etc. Better for not eating junk food and forcing me to cook, though. :)

Take care.

[mkc]

We live out in a fairly rural area and as engineers, probably dig a lot more into the system operations than most :o

Definitely have the well water tested, if it wasn't done as part of the closing requirements. Usually the required test is just for fecal coliform. You can also have the hardness, pH, etc., tested but try to get this done by a county/state agency or independent lab, NOT a place that has a vested interest in selling you a water softener or other treatment system. Keep in mind that in many/most cases, wells require electricity to pump the water, so if the power goes out you will have just a small bit of pressure reserve.

Septic depends on what kind you have. Grease/oil is never good for any kind of septic since it doesn't get broken down. Traditional tank and leach field probably means nothing significant into the disposal. Aerobic can handle small amounts of food waste (except things like potato peels). Aerobic trash tanks are typically smaller than traditional tanks and may need to be pumped more often. Aerobic systems often have chlorinators if the liquid is treated and sprayed back onto the property, and you have to add chlorine tabs to the chlorinator every now and then. Some places (our county in Texas is one) require you to have a maintenance inspection contract if you have an aerobic system (also called an "On Site Sewer Facility", or OSSF). You would have been informed of this at closing if it was required for your. Also keep in mind that for aerobic, the bacteria need to be kept "fed". We were told that if we were going to be headed on vacation for more than a few weeks, to flush some canned dog food (of course, check with your local septic expert). Septic is definitely sensitive to the type of toilet paper you use. Either choose one marked "safe for septic" OR do the test yourself - put a square in a small jar of water and shake. If it doesn't break up into little bits quickly, it's not septic safe. (this is also how you test to see if the TP is OK for RV use).

Heat pump - works as both A/C and heat, generally heats OK in moderate southern climates, struggles to maintain comfort level if outside temps are close to or below freezing, so you're in luck that there's a furnace as well. Propane is (right now) usually more expensive than electricity, so using the furnace for back up is better than using it for primary heat.

Buried propane tank - you might want to see if you can add a BBQ stub to the house gas lines easily - no more 20 lb tanks to refill! Auto delivery is very convenient.

We have well, OSSF, and buried propane tank and have for 7 years now. With the exception of the well pump burning out and dropping due to a multi-day freeze (we didn't have the well head adequately insulated, and have a 1500 gallon storage tank so we didn't know the pump wasn't moving anything) no problems. We do have a chlorinator and softener on the water coming to the interior faucets because the water here is very hard and has a lot of dissolved sulfur (the storage tank also helps evaporate that off). We had heat pumps in our previous house and had some performance issues with them in the winter, but then we didn't have a furnace for back up. The aerobic septic really isn't an issue at all, and even though we have to pay for a maintenance contract, to me it's peace of mind that our septic gets inspected every 4 months so the likelihood of a "surprise" is greatly reduced.

Michelle

[HealthyinMN]

Thank you! Lots of great information here for us to sift though!

Unfortunately, they did not run a gas line up to the kitchen... They only had one going to the furnace and one to the dryer, but they then switched the dryer to electric. We will be gutting the kitchen after the Phoenix house sells so we may try and see if something can be done... I would love to have a duel fuel range/anything!

It never occured to me that we would not have water if the electric goes out... thanks for that tip! We are not too close to grocery stores either anymore, so it definitely different trying to make sure I have everything I need on hand for recipes.

I believe we did have the water tested, but the only thing we were told was that it was "just fine" and have not seen the results yet. I've been waiting to see what exactly was all done and will look into getting the other tests done if needed!

Thanks again for all this info, I'm sending it to Jeff to print out so we can look into these things!

[Valerie226]

Regarding the septic tank; you should plan on getting it pumped out, depending on family size and usage and how big the tank is, maybe every 6-8 years. there are people who say you "never" need to pump it but if it fails it is very expensive to rebuild. biologic wastes will provide all the bacteria you need. I've never read a reliable source recommending assorted additives to make it work. Make sure you know WHERE the tank is and mark the perimeter if possible. the people who pump the tank need to find it to pump it out. it should be easily accessible, maybe under 8-10 inches of dirt. make sure you know where the drain field lines are. the drain field is quite large and extends usually 50 -100 feet with 3-4 "lines" past the tank. ( i don't know if every part of the country does things the same) the building plans and probably the county will have diagrams but if the owner knows where things are that's easier. You should make sure*** no one drives vehicles or heavy equipment over the area nor excavates or digs up stumps etc in the drainfield. lawnmowing is fine if grass is over it. you don't want to disturb or compact the drain field. I have been told not to overload the system by doing too many heavy water things in a row, like several loads of wash, the dishwasher and showers all in a short time. space it out a bit to allow the water to process. 15 years ago I was told not to get a garbage disposal because they are not compatible with septic. I've since been told that there is no problem but I do check cleaning products etc to be sure they are septic safe. I don't put anything down the toilet except for the basics that belong there like toilet paper. I think don't think tampons, female sanitary products and diapers should be flushed although I will admit flushing tampons with no ill effects.

We have a heat pump as our sole heat source. they work sort of like a reverse air conditioner. They extract heat from air and use it to heat your home, in addition to in our case, electric. even 30-40 degree air has heat that can be extracted and used. the colder it is the less heat is available. ours is also an air conditioner in the summer. it cut our heat bills dramatically. Ours has a series of electronic filters that need to be cleaned annually. just in a sink with dw deteregent but make sure you know where they are and how to remove them for cleaning. we keep a log taped on the furnace. we get the furnace/heat pump serviced about every other year.

[Laurielee]

one more thing on septic, get toilet paper made for septic systems, thats what we use, I get it at both costco and the grocery store, they are labeled "Safe for Septic"

I have not heard those additives are not good for the septic. we use them all of them time


Laurie

[lindrusso]

My Cottonelle TP is labeled "safe for septic" - can I assume it's safe?

Please don't tell me I have to give up my soft TP! :eek:

[sneezles]

My Cottonelle TP is labeled "safe for septic" - can I assume it's safe?

Please don't tell me I have to give up my soft TP! :eek:

We use Northern and it's marked safe for septic so I wouldn't worry too much!

[CompassRose]

I'd say stay away from Charmin though. I bought that cos it was on sale, and it wouldn't even go down my regular toilet happily! :mad:

[lindrusso]

I'd say stay away from Charmin though.

I gave up on Charmin - nice and soft, but too much lint. :)

[Laurielee]

I will have to search for the cottonelle and northern that are septic safe, I really dont like costco and the store brand, but they were the only ones I could find septic safe

laurie

[sparrowgrass]

Septic tank additives won't generally hurt your tank, but they don't do any good, either.

You get all the bacteria you need just from normal use of the toilet and sinks.

If you live away out in the country like me, one thing you can do to help out your septic system is to drain your "grey water" elsewhere.

Grey water is water from the tub, sink, washing machine. It might have some soap in it, but no nasties.

I am growing a 'rain garden' using my grey water. Right now, with our lack of rain, that is the only green spot on the lawn.

For more info on septic tanks, talk to your county extension agent, or wade thru this septic tank site (that doesn't sound good, does it? :eek: )

http://extension.missouri.edu/explore/envqual/eq0401.htm

[Vanessa]

Hi!
I live in Md too (Sykesville) We have well, septic and propane for heating and hot water tank. I really love it. Before we had electric heat and DH was always cold. Because this is a new house (we had it built) we went thrtough permits inspections and all. Our water thankfully is really great tasting. We are only 4 houses in our private road and 9 in the road leading to ours & I believe everyone is in diffrent aquifers? or they drilled at different depths. Anyway we did install a all house filter (Home Depot) installed by a plumber. We change filters @ 3 months or so. So far so good. WE also have an expeler in the basement because we have 2 bathrooms there we have septic and I was told not to put clorox grease rice or anything difficult to "break down" We have a big garbage disposal but I use it not often. MY parents had their septic clean and the guy said depending size of house people in it etc clean it every 3 yrs or so.
Some can go to 5 yrts it depends what kind of septic you have.
I cook with electric and really like the propane for fireplace and hot water.
I am used to electric cooking but some have propane cooking. We have a 1,000 gallon tank buriad in the yard and they come and refill or "top it off" .
Like you our stores are not close so we got a second fridge (basement)
and we have a pantry so we don't have to do not necessary trips all the time.
I think the tip would be to coordinate trips like going to church then close by a run to lets say grocery or whatever.
As you propably know theres a huge controversy over the hefty electric increase in MD. In the BG&E tips they suggest doing things at high savings time. You can get those rates or times with your BG & E.
We have a very open rancher & finished basement. I was just thinking of taking advantage of cool 70 degrees in the basement putting another MBedroom there and a tv area. This year I have not turned the ac there just upstairs but still its very nice downstairs. We put ceiling fans in all bedrooms and FRoom and it does help a lot.
I hope you guys enjoy living in this state & welcome to MD

[Varaile]

Something else that came to mind with the exploding bottle of detergent. It was recommended to me to use only liquid detergent with a septic system, as powder detergents leave a nasty cake type residue within the holding tank that can plug things up. This came from a fellow who has lived his entire life with a septic and from a septic guy.

And not dump large amounts yeast down the septic as it can also clog your system (this was off a home brewer site/magazine). The bakery out by us has to re-do it's tank every 5 years or so because of the amount of yeast product going down the drain messes up their system.