Pot Pie Crust Driving me Potty!

[KateH]

The Curried-Chicken Potpie from the May issue has quickly become a favorite meal in this house, but I'm having trouble with the crust. My only previous pie crust experience was when I was eleven, and it was a real downer.

The instructions begin:
"To prepare crust, lightly spoon floor into a dry measuring cup, and level with a knife. Combine 1/4 cup floor, water (3 tablespoons iced), and vinegar (1 tbls) in a small bowl, and stir with a whisk until well-blended to create a slurry. Set aside." -- At this point my question is, what consistency is a slurry supposed to have? Is it supposed to be runny or doughy? Mine has always turned out to be quite thick and doughy.

Then it goes on to say:
"Combine 3/4 cup floor and salt in a large bowl, and cut in shortening (1/4 c.) with a pastry blender or 2 knives until mixture resembles coarse meal." The first two times I did this I really cut the shortening quite a bit, but then I read that to get a flaky crust you want pea sized bits of shortening. Is this right?

Then it says to:
"Add the slurry to flour mixture, and toss with a fork until moist. Press the mixture gently into a 4-inch circle on heavy duty plastic wrap, cover with additional plastic wrap. Chill 15 minutes." Okay, here's where I really run into trouble. Toss "until moist"? I seem to be always tossing until dry. (What do they mean by toss, anyway?) This mixture seems very dry, and in order to get it into any kind of circle I have to really mash it together with my hands. Even then, it looks like a conglomeration of little bits of dried out dough. I figure at this point I've pretty much undone any potential flakiness from my bits of shortening.

Then you "Roll the crust into an 11-inch circle, and place over mixture." Here I run into two problems. The dough sticks to my rolling pin and makes little holes in my circle, and then when I'm done the circle sticks to whatever surface I have rolled it onto. Should I flour the pin and the working surface? Roll it out onto a sheet of plastic or parchment? Last time I took each broken piece and put it back together in the casserole. It looked like all the world's continents, pushed back together!

Any tips would be much appreciated. I'm about ready to give up and just use Bisquick!

[This message has been edited by KateH (edited 07-10-2000).]

[Grace]

Ok Kate, there's a lot I don't know and a lot I learn from this board, but I would consider myself a piecrust expert (and so would all my family and friends). It's one of my favorite things to make, and I have a ton of variations on it, and it is definitely a technique. I think Cooking Light designed that "slurry" idea to make it easier, but I tried it and it turned out terribly, so I always go with the traditional way to make pie crust.

I would measure all of the flour called for and all of the shortening (which should be very cold, by the way) in a bowl. I would then cut in with a pastry cutter, and as you found out, combine until you have pea sized chunks. Then, I would fill a small glass with ice water, and start by adding the 3 Tablsp. called for, and "toss" (basically lightly stir it around). At this point, almost every time I make any kind of pie crust, I find that the amount of water called for is just not enough (usually due to the different levels of humidity in your home, how much moisture is in your flour, etc.) So start adding 1 more Tblsp. at a time more ice water, "tossing" each time, and then pinching a small amount of the crumbs together to see if they'll stick. If they don't stick together yet(too dry), then keep going with another Tblsp. until they do. You don't want the dough to form a ball by itself - it should form the ball only when you squeeze all the crumbs together. When I get to the point where the dough is moist enough but hasn't formed a ball yet, I dump out the sticky crumbs onto a sheet of plastic wrap, and then fold the sides of the plastic wrap up and squeeze the crumbs (this way the crumbs don't stick to my hands). When it all comes together into a ball, you should wrap it all up in plastic wrap and pat it into a disk. I would probably refrigerate it for 15 or 20 minutes at this point, to let the shortening firm up again, even though this particular recipe doesn't call for this step.

Then, to roll it, you DEFINITELY need to flour your surface and your pin, but LIGHTLY. Start by putting the disk of dough out onto your floured surface, flour the top of the dough (again, lightly) and with your rolling pin, press down lightly all across the dough (don't roll - press straight down, move the pin a little, press down again, move the pin a little, etc.). Turn your disk 1/4 turn and do this again. Turn your disk another 1/4 turn and do this one more time. Then turn your dough and start rolling lightly, picking up the dough, turning it over, and putting more flour out on the surface and on your pin. The key is to not give the dough an opportunity to stick by constantly shifting it around and using more flour (but in small amounts). As you roll, keep turning the dough so that it rolls evenly in a cirle. When you have it the size you want it, fold it in half, then fold it in half again, and it will be easy to pick up and move (without tearing) onto your pie. I know this sounds kind of complicated, but don't give up, and keep practicing!! That's really the key to good pie dough - experience which comes from practice! You will get to a point where you will know when the dough has enough water in it, etc., and it will be so much easier. But I have never had good luck with that "slurry" technique either, so don't feel bad! I hope this helps, and if you have any further questions, or I didn't make myself clear enough, please ask and I'll try to clarify! GOOD LUCK!!!

Grace

[KateH]

Grace,

Thank you so much for your incredibly clear instructions! I've printed them out to keep in my cookbook.

Kate

[Cindy Armstrong]

Wow,that is a great list of instructions for crust! just in case you were looking for a recipe as well, here is a low fat one for you.
1 cup white flour
1/4 tsp salt
1/4 tsp baking powder
4 tbsp soft margarine(Becel works well)
~1/4 cup skim milk
Mix dry ingrediants together, cut in margarine until little "peas" appear. Add milk until soft dough is formed.(will be soft). Chill. You can either press into a pie shell or it can be rolled out. My advice is to roll it between two sheets of saran wrap(to soft to roll on board. this recipe makes 1 single crust.

[Laura B]

Thanks, Grace! Pie crusts have given me much trouble in the past. The last time I attempted to make one, it was late at night and I was realizing how long it was going to take me to do this (based on my inexperience, chilling time, blind baking time, etc.). I said to my husband that I didn't think I was going to make that pie to take to his parents' house for Thanksgiving after all. At this point, he calmly asked hadn't I looked to see how long this was going to take and shouldn't I have started earlier? I (not calmly) scooped everything up and slammed it into the trash can. http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/frown.gif

Anyway, have put your instructions in MasterCook and will refer to them next time I attempt this!

[Grace]

Ugh - poor Laura! Aren't husbands just wonderful sometimes???!!!

Anyway, I hope you all have great success next time you make some pie crust, and don't feel bad if it still doesn't turn out exactly perfect - just keep trying, and experimenting - eventually you'll have a perfect flaky crust!

I have a wonderful free-form tart recipe that is probably my "signature" item - most requested, most oohed and aahed over - that, and my Grandmother's Kolacky recipe (which she can't make worth a darn anymore, so it's a good thing I learned, cuz no one else in the family bothered to learn!), both of which are "flaky pastry" recipes where the technique is just like pie crust. If anyone's interested, let me know and I'll post. The free-form tart recipe comes from the Baking with Julia cookbook if anyone has that one already. It's absolutely fantastic, and I almost always keep a round of the dough in the freezer just in case someone pops over or I am requested to bring something on short notice.

Grace

[BethR]

Grace -- Oh, yes yes -- please post those recipes! I still have mixed luck with pie crusts -- I make them only occasionally. I'm in a mood to give that free-form a try after reading your great description (I too, will cut your post into Mastercook). Thanks in advance -- Beth

[Grace]

Ok, here are the recipes...

Berry Galettes

From Baking with Julia Cookbook

Galette Dough

Makes enough for two 8-inch galettes. The cornmeal in this wonderully buttery dough not only gives it a bit of crunch, it makes it crisp enough to stand up to soft and syrupy fillings and sturdy enough to be rolled to extreme thinness. You can use this dough to line a tart pan, but it is particularly well suited to rustic tarts called galettes - flat, open-face, free-form tarts whose edges are folded over the filling like the ruffled top of a drawstring purse.

The dough is made quickly either by hand or in a food processor and produces enough for two galettes.

3 Tablespoons sour cream (or yogurt or buttermilk) [I have used all three - whatever I have on hand - all of them are good]
1/3 cup (approximately) ice water
1 cup all purpose flour
1/4 cup yellow cornmeal
1 teaspoon sugar
1/2 teaspoon salt
7 Tablespoons cold unstalted butter, cut into 6 to 8 pieces.

To Make the Dough by Hand: Stir the sour cream and 1/3 cup ice water together in a small bowl and set aside. Put the flour, cornmeal, sugar and salt in a large bowl and stir with a fork to mix. Drop the butter pieces into the bowl, tossing them once or twice just to coat them with flour. With a pastry blender, work the butter into the flour, aiming for pieces of butter that range in size from bread crumbs to small peas. The smaller pieces will make the dough tender, the larger ones will make it flaky.

Sprinkle the cold sour cream mixture over the dough, 1 tablespoon at a time, tossing with a fork to evenly distribute it. After you've added all of the sour cream, the dough should be moist enough to stick together when pressed; if it's not, add additional cold water, 1 teaspoon at a time. With your hands, gather the curds of dough together. (You'll have a soft, malleable dough, the kind you might want to overwork). Turn the dough out of the bowl and divide it in half. Press each piece of dough into a disk, wrap in plastic, and refrigerate for at least 2 hours.

To Make the Dough In A Food Processor: Stir the sour cream and 1/3 cup ice water together in a small bowl; set aside. Put the flour, cornmeal, sugar and salt in the work bowl of a processor fitted with the metal blade; pulse to combine. Drop the butter pieces into the bowl and pulse 8 to 10 times, or until the mixture is speckled with pieces of butter that vary in size from bread crumbs to peas. With the machine running, add the sour cream mixture and process just until the dough forms soft, moist curds. Remove the dough from the processor, divide it in half, and press each half into a disk. Wrap in plastic and chill for at least two hours.

Storing: The dough can be kept in the refrigerator for a day or two, or it can be wrapped airtight and frozen for a month. Thaw, still wrapped in the refrigerator. It is convenient to roll the dough into rounds, place parchment between each round and freeze them wrapped in plastic, this way you'll need only about 20 minutes to defrost a round of dough before it can be filled, folded into a galette and baked.

Berry Galette

Makes 4 to 6 servings. This, as heirloom cookbooks used to say, is a a keeper It is so simple and inviting and so enjoyable to construct that you'll find yourself turning to it frequently (that's true, I do!!). It's called a galette because it's flat, open-faced and free-form - the crust is rolled into a circle, the filling is piled in the center and the edges of the crust are turned in and ruffled. The filling can be mixed berries, peeled soft fruits like peaches or apricots, or in fall and winter, tart apples or sweet pears.

1/2 recipe Galette Dough, chilled
1-1/2 cups mixed fresh berries (or cut-up peeled fruit)
1 tablespoon plus 1 tsp. sugar
1 tablespoon cold unsalted butter

Position a rack in the lower third of the oven and preheat the oven to 400ºF. Line a baking sheet with parchment paper.

Put the dough on a lightly floured work surface and roll it into an 11-inch circle that's about 1/8" thick. Since the dough is soft, you'll need to lift it now and then and toss some more flour under it and over the top. Roll up the dough around your rolling pin (or fold it in half twice like I do) and transfer it to the prepared baking sheet.

Spread the berries over the dough, leaving a 2 to 3 inch border. Sprinkle 1 tablespoon of the sugar over the fruit. Cut the butter into slivers and scatter it on top of the fruit. Fold the uncovered border of dough up over the filling, allowing the dough to pleat as you lift it up and work your way around the galette (Because you're folding a wide edge of dough onto a smaller part of the circle, it will pleat naturally - just go with it.) Dip a pastry brush in water, give the edge of the crust a light coating, and then sprinkle the wet crust with the remaining teaspoon of sugar.

Bake the galette for 35 to 40 minutes, or until the pastry is golden and crisp. Transfer the baking sheet to a cooling rack and let the galette rest on the sheet for 10 minutes. Slip a wide spatula or a small baking sheet under the galette and slide it onto the cooling rack. Serve warm or at room temperature, cutting the tart with a pizza wheel or a sharp knife.

The galette is best eaten the day it is made (if you're able to keep any for longer than a day, I would say you live with zombies or something!)

Sorry that was so long, but I copied it word for word out of the book! My Grandma's recipe is very, very short!

Kolacky

There are 1,000 different varieties of these cookies, I always say they are the Ukrainian version, since my Grandma is Ukrainian, but Grandpa is 100% German, and I don't know where she got the recipe from. So I don't know for sure, but I know they're not the polish or czech kind, but they are GOOD!!

1 cup flour
1 stick butter (unsalted)
3/4 pkg (6 ounces) regular cream cheese (won't work with light cream cheese)
pinch of salt

Cut the butter and cream cheese into the flour and salt, when it's all crumbly, reach in with your hands and smoosh it all together into a ball, and do not knead it at all (this is coming out of my head - sorry it's not so "professional" sounding!)

Divide the dough in two, wrap tightly in plastic, and refrigerate for several hours, overnight is better.

Roll one half of the dough at a time on a lightly floured surface, to about 1/4" thickness. Using a 1-1/2" or 2" buscuit cutter or juice glass, cut rounds and place them on an ungreased cookie sheet. If your kitchen is warm or you aren't real fast, put the cookie sheet with the cut rounds into the fridge or freezer while you roll the rest. Form the scraps into a ball, roll one more time, and cut as many more rounds as you can from those scraps. The rest of the scraps have to be tossed at this point - rolling more than twice makes terrible tough cookies.

Make a thumbprint in the center of each round, and put a 1/2 teaspoon of filling (your choice, but my family's favorites are always Apricot (Solo brand in a can) and Raspberry, but you could do poppy seed, prune, whatever) into the thumbprint. Bake right away in a preheated 425º oven for about 8 to 10 minutes. Watch them carefully, but don't open the oven too much - the oven needs to stay really hot. Take them out when they are lightly golden. Remove them to a cooling rack, and when they are completely cooled, dust with powdered sugar. It will make approxiimately 3 dozen cookies, depending on the size of the rounds you make. Good luck keeping these from being eaten before you can finish making them!

Grace

[This message has been edited by Grace (edited 07-11-2000).]

[Cathy]

Thank you, Grace. Your instructions are so thorough! The recipes sounds wonderful too!

[Grace]

Gosh, I really am verbose....can you tell I'm a salesperson??!!!

[BethR]

Thanks Grace! I can't wait to try these recipes.
Beth

[Anne]

thanks for the great crust instructions Grace. I had never thought to put the crust back in the fridge to recool after just starting to roll it, thanks for the tip. Does rolling the dough on stone help much? I am thinking of getting a marble or granite 'cutting/dough board'.

[Grace]

Hi Anne...

You know, my mother gave me a piece of marble a couple of years ago - she found it at a garage sale. I like it a lot, particularly because the marble stays cool, and my kitchen tends to get hot (I have two gas ovens and a small convection oven - they often run all at the same time!!). Anyhow, while I like my piece of marble very much, it definitely isn't necessary, and I made perfectly wonderful pastry before I had the marble. So I guess I would say if you have room and can get one inexpensively, go for it, but it's not a "change your life" item in my opinion!

Grace

[JennyLiz]

Grace- thanks for your very detailed instructions. I've always had luck using a special flour for pie crusts called "Pie and Pastry Blend" from King Arthur Flour. (They can be found at www.kingarthurflour.com) (http://www.kingarthurflour.com)) My husband teases me that flour doesn't really make a difference, but believe me, if I'm going to all the effort to make something from scratch, I'm going to use quality ingredients! I think the Pie and Pastry Blend does make a superior piecrust.
-JennyLiz

[Grace]

JennyLiz

Funny you should mention that - I order stuff from King Arthur all the time, and have been meaning to order that flour, and keep forgetting. I agree with you that flour can/does indeed make a difference, and everything from King Arthur is of such high quality, and they really do know their stuff, that I never doubted at all that their pastry flour would be better for pie crusts, etc. So thanks for the reminder and the "testimonial" (!) and I will make sure I order some on my next order!!

Grace