Dog training questions

[krhm]

We adopted a 2 1/2 year old beagle/terrier mix about three weeks ago. Both DH and I had dogs when we were kids, but this is a first for our family, and I don't remember pet ownership being so complicated! Of course, I probably wasn't as bothered by poop on the floor when I was 7!

Overall, she's pretty well-behaved, but we have had some problems that I don't know how to solve, and I'm just not sure we're doing the right thing. She has had some "accidents" that actually seem to be on purpose, even right after she has been walked, and she chews up her harnesses and leashes (2 each, and they ain't cheap), even when we think we've put them up. We have bought her chew toys that she won't touch. She also won't eat unless it's one particular kind of wet dog food, and she takes off as soon as a door is open. I could name a few other issues, but without getting too long winded, my basic question is, can we train her ourselves with the help of a manual (and can anyone recommend a good one?), or should we go for obedience classes? Where do we go for obedience classes? And would they cover such behavioral issues?

[Aubergine]

first, i'd talk to your vet. and/or, you might want to consider utilizing a trainer for a few sessions. might seem costly, but, in the long run, your family's sanity and furnishings vs. an out-of-control dog...you do the math. around here it costs about $300 for a few training sessions, whereas the carpeting, furniture, uh, a whole lot more... it's ridiculous to allow a pet to soil your home, and it need not be so.

if you want to (foolishly, imo) attempt this on your own, there is something called "Cesar's Way," a book at the top of the best-seller lists; he is aka "The Dog Whisperer' on some channel or other, maybe Disc.

regardless, you definitely need to take control and confine him until he is trained, and/or be prepared to live with the consequences...

[melfitz]

We love the book "How to Be Your Dog's Best Friend" written by the Monks of New Skete. They are a group of monks who train German Shepards in upstate New York.

We took our dog to a puppy training class which was incredibly helpful, especially for us who were 1st time dog owners. (We had a Norwegian Elkhound who died a couple of years ago to renal failure.) I think it is possible to train an older dog without going to a class, but you have to be very diligent and consistent about your training.

One method which we used with our dog when he was naughty was to put him on his back, so that he'd be in submissive form. We did it firmly, but without aggression, accompanied with a very stern "No". This method is done to establish that the owner is the "alpha dog". We'd hold him down on his back until he submisses (basically his body goes limp), let him go, and give him a big cuddle at the end, just so he knew that we still loved him. This worked so well for us. Our dog knew who was boss.

Another thing we did while we were training our dog was to keep his leash on and when he'd jump up, out, try to run away, or any similar act, we'd step on his leash preventing him from getting away. So, he had free roam but had his leash on. For example, if you keep your dog's leash on and you open your door, if she tries to dart out, step on her leash immediately so that she can't go anywhere.

Regarding chewing, I highly recommend using a spray called Bitter Apple and spray it on the things she's been chewing.

Sorry this was so long. Just wanted to share a few training ideas that worked for us. Good luck!

[Aubergine]

melfitz, sage advice, but this is not a puppy, it's a 2-1/2 y-o dog who has not been trained from the get-go, at the time s/he should have been.

[melfitz]

I definitely think a 2-1/2y dog can be trained. As I said before, diligence and consistency is key.

[nancymaring]

It's NEVER too late to train a dog. I routinely adopt adult dogs only, and from day one, they are expected to follow the rules in my house. I make no excused for their past lives....dogs don't live in the past...
You are in MY pack now, and this in how pack members act in MY pack.

I won't get into training tips tonight....but briefly...more exercise...MUCH more exercise...'a tired dog is a good dog"
Do get a copy of Cesars Millan's book..."Cesar's Way"
And do check into classes and behaviorists.

I don't believe in the 'Alpha Roll"...rolling the dog over until he submits...good dog pack leaders don't do this. People don't use it correctly, it is confusing to the dog, and can actually cause more problems then it will solve.

More later, if your interested...nancy

[mcgeiger]

Here is an old thread (http://community.cookinglight.com/showthread.php?t=86216&highlight=FWIW) with books. Another not listed there is Leader of the Pack.

I think in this situation, I'd go for some basic training classes, just so you can get practice in good technique. Reading the books will be helpful and give you ideas of what is possible. And yes, lots of exercise!

As for the dog food issue. They will eat when they get hungry. If you want to feed a particular food. Measure it (always measure food), put it down and leave it for 15 minutes then pick it up. Most adult dogs are fed either once or twice a day. This will help with behavior training and house training. Also, I'd look at crate training.

Good luck!

[Aubergine]

see whether your local 4H offers training classes. we did that with our feisty little guy when he was 8 mos. old, 8 weeks, 1 hour/week, for about $80. also, they recommended--and we found they were right--a choke collar with blunt pegs. it looked like an instrument of torture to me until the 4H very-experienced trainer put it on my thigh and taught me that it doesn't hurt. also, you can get a metal chain leash that he can't chew.

i am hardly a dog expert; only owned 3 ever, and the first two were very complacent. our 4-y-o Peke is stubborn as can be, so we have toddler gates (sigh) so that he cannot go upstairs, nor into the LR, b/c carpet=poop to him. i am planning to hire a trainer soon for a few in-home lessons, b/c i'm sick of the gates, but the real problem here, imo, is SO's indulgence...he about undid all of the training i did at 4H. HE is the one who needs training.

example: 4H teaches, "Fido, COME!" in a stern voice, and then a reward. i got that easily, but SO cannot/will not get it; to him, it became, "Fido, come here, sweetie..." in a sing-song tone.

other posters are quite correct: consistency is KEY. arrrgggh! thanks for letting me rant, but i hope it may help you in some small way. meaning, you both need to be united, same like with children.

[ecgrimes]

My fiance and I got our first dog - a 3-mo old hound mutt, about a year ago. I was concerned about training, so did a bit of reading in advance and revisited at a couple of the transition stages in the first year. I found the Monks of New Skete videos (books were always checked out) and Carol Lea Benjamin books interesting from a "philosophy of training" point of view, but didn't find all of their techniques useful in our home context.

I would, however, very highly recommend Brian Kilcommons. He follows the same philosophy as the above, but I found his training method clear, consistent, easy to understand and easy to implement. He specifically addresses some of the issues your confronting here - darting, food pickiness, chewing, etc.

[nancymaring]

Krhm....Ah...finally a few moments to write.
First, yes, you can do this on your own...it's not foolish to try. There are many, many good books and videos out there. However, the advantage of training classes is you get the distractions of other dogs and people. Plus, a good instructor will help you with timing your corrections, etc.

Obedience classes probably won't cover the issues you have. But it will teach you how to teach your dog to sit, walk nicely on a leash, stay, and come when called. All things a well-mannered dog should know.

You can take your adult dog to a puppy class. In fact, they probably WILL cover the chewing, darting out the door issues, more then a regular obedience class, as these tend to be puppy issues.

Keep in mind that one 8 week class, does not a well trained dog make. That would be like saying...."gosh, my kid finished first grade, why isn't he a brain surgeon)....continue with classes until you have a well trained dog...advanced classes are fun, as well as agility classes and other fun stuff you can do with your dog.

It's important to remember that dogs don't 'do things on purpose'. If he is having 'accidents', it is your fault. Use a dog crate. The dog is in crate when you are too busy to watch him, when you are in a room where you CAN'T watch him (in the shower, for instance) at night when you are sleeping, etc etc.
If you have taken him outside....and TAKE him out...don't just PUT him out...and he hasn't gone potty...place him back inside the crate. Wait half-an-hour and then try again. He doesn't get free rein of the house until you are SURE he is empty!
Learn to recognize his way of telling you he needs to go. Don't insist he go to the door, bark three times and then do a back flip! Most of my dogs just come to me and give me 'the look'....make it easy on him!

Food...as mentioned, pick a healthy food that is easy for you to use. Measure it...place on floor....WALK AWAY...(dogs don't like it when you stand around and 'whine' around their food. 'why is the pack leader whining...there must be something wrong here') whining is 'come on baby, heres something yummy..come ooooonnnnn....pleeeeaaase eat some dinner) so, put it down and walk away. if he hasn't eaten it in 15-20 minutes, pick it up and don't feed until the next scheduled meal time (and NO treats either) He'll be eating before you know it.

Gosh,...an ounce of prevention...hang those leashes, or place on a high surface. I doubt he's jumping on the kitchen counters to get the leash so he can chew on it.

Lots and lots of exercise...and that does not mean, 'toss him in the backyard', that means a good walk twice a day for at least an hour.

There is a program called 'nothing in life is free'...I don't have the website handy, but can find it....basically, it is, your dog has to sit for everything...go out the door, put on the leash, get fed, get pets, get brushed, get in the car. get play time...everything....this, along with the walking will help you soooo much. It establishes your roll as pack leader. And in a pleasant way.
However, do make sure you have him sit EVERY time..if you don't, they learn you are not a strong leader..and that 'sometimes' they don't have to do what you ask.

Good luck on your new baby...nancy

[luv2cook]

I understand. It can seem overwhelming in the beginning. You always wonder, What am I doing?!?!? Hang in there. You've gotten some great advice (as usual) from this board.

I was going to suggest the crate training. Just remember to be consistent, too. No isn't no one day and okay the next. Your whole family should be on the same page about that, too.

It will get better. AND it will get a LOT better w/some work on the front end on you and your family's behalf.

jake was about 2 when I got him and I was able to train him (with the help of a trainer) because he had some issues I wasn't used to. he's a fantastic dog now.

[nancymaring]

Aubergine....consistency in training does not mean that EVERYONE in the household has to do the same thing...although, it certainly helps. It means that the INDIVDUAL is consistent.

If your dog is not coming to your firm voice commands...it's because, YOU have not been consistent with your corrections. The first time you called the dog, and he decided he didn't have to come, and you decided that you weren't going to walk over and MAKE him come, was the first time your dog thought "oooohhhhhh, I don't HAVE to come when she calls". It has nothing to do with your SO.

Dogs are smart enough to know that "I have to act this way for this person...and I can act that way for the other person"

So, no one 'undoes' your training except yourself.

cheers...nancy

[TwinMom]

nancymaring - Is this the Pack Leader Website you were talking about???

http://sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm

It has some great information about sitting before everything, being the pack leader, etc.....

Has some great advice...

Good luck!

[nancymaring]

TwinMom....google "Nothing in Life is Free" and it will come up.

I'm terrible at the whole computer thing, so can't give addresses...but it's information does come up when googled....the program is similar to "Leader of the Pack".

cheers...nancy

[luv2cook]

just remember, the crate is NOT punishment, it is for safety, training and security...

[Terrytx]

just remember, the crate is NOT punishment, it is for safety, training and security...
Have to jump in here and ask a question of those who know- I have a new puppy and am having a hard time with the crate training. She does feel that it is punishment and whimpers and whines forever. I am the considered "the leader of the pack" (even she feels that way) and agree with
nancymaring about

"consistency in training does not mean that EVERYONE in the household has to do the same thing...although, it certainly helps. It means that the INDIVDUAL is consistent.

she will do stuff for me that she will ignore if others try it. What do I do to get her to see that the crate is her "little space", and I guess I have to add that I have an older dog that isn't trained at all, but well behaved. And that we have a back yard that they stay in most of the time. Sorry to run on so (or hijack the thread), but this is my first time to try to train a dog. (my bad-I usually let them run wild in the back yard) Any help would be appreciated.

[Grace]

Hi Terry!

Congrats on the new puppy! I have two dogs as you might already know, and trained them both from 8 weeks old. The crying and whining is not because the puppy is feeling punished, it's because it's a puppy and wants to be with you. They get over it. I promise. If possible, you can bring the crate into where you are. That helps a lot. But my dogs are definitely house dogs, and since I treat them like children (yes, I'm one of those ;) :p :D ), I never left them in the yard, ever. So I don't know what I would have done if I wanted them to be outside dogs.

I would recommend a couple of books - SUPER helpful. One is from the Monks of New Skeete (I forget the name, but if you go to google or amazon you can find it easily), and the other is by a guy named Brian Kilcommon - Good Owners, Great Dogs. I love this book. Great advice and it also gives a lot of information about the mindset of dogs (a lot different than what I thought - I always tried to project my human mindset onto them - it doesn't work).

Also, a lot of people like Cesar Milan's book, but that wasn't around when I got my dogs years ago, so I haven't read it.

But don't give into that whining and crying. I know it's heart breaking (believe me, I had the WORST time with that), but ultimately it IS for their protection to be in the crate. They chew things that they can choke on, or swallow and can become obstructions, or they chew through an electrical cord and get zapped, or they become entangled in something and basically hang or choke themselves to death accidentally trying to pull out of the entanglement (I know someone personally who had this happen to their dog). Horrible things happen to unsupervised and unrestrained puppies.

Another idea is to keep your other dog in the same area as where you have the puppy crated. The puppy is just lonely and dogs are social animals and just don't like being alone. You can also put some safe chew toys (nothing that they can pull apart and swallow) in with them.

Lastly, lots of exercise will tire that puppy out so she (is it a she?) wants to sleep and will be much happier and content in her crate.

Post some pictures when you have a chance! What kind is it? What's its name? I love puppies! :D

[Terrytx]

Thanks Grace, duh, I hadn't even thought of actually putting her in the room with me (just like a baby). I can get her to go to the crate to eat and do chew toys and stuff, but if I walk away, she comes out. This is my first time to be the "sole owner of a dog", and I am excited. I am doing online training by a guy named Dean Rankin.

I'll check out the books, but have to brag. In 5 days I have got her to do 3 commends. I am so proud of her (and me)

she is a boxer puppy

[krhm]

Gosh, so much good information! Thanks everyone! I posted my question and then went away unexpectedly for the weekend, so I haven't checked in.

Two things that we did over the weekend that were suggested on the board and really helped were getting her more exercise and buying the bitter spray. It has been soooo hot here that while we were walking her frequently, no one could stand to be outside for longer than 20 minutes and not at a very fast pace. We were in a cooler place this weekend and took her for a 90 minute, 3 mile walk yesterday (plus others) and she was quiet the rest of the day!

The bitter spray was recommended by Pet Smart, and it has also worked well. We were hanging up her leash and harness and she was pulling them down (the last time, it was on a table and she got it). I felt like she was trying to tell us something specific since she was going to such lengths to find and destroy these particular items.

I think I will try the Brian Kilcommon book and go from there. We do have a crate and we will have to reconsider using it.

Kari

[nancymaring]

Terry...as stated, she is crying because she is lonely...puppies do that. I know it's hard, but don't give in.

A few things that help...

LOTS of exercise...as already stated. Remember: "A tired dog is a good dog". A tired dog will also sleep in the crate.

Hide yummies in the crate. Then show her during the day, that there is something yummy inside the crate, if she just goes in and looks.

Feed her in the crate and shut the door. If she is whining, and not eating, don't fret. Give her 15 minutes, if she hasn't eaten, take food away and don't feed till next meal time. She will be FLYING into that crate before the week is out.

Let her out WHEN SHE IS QUIET!!! Plan this for times when you can do this...(a puppy that has been sleeping, and starts whining, needs to go potty...a puppy that is just whining non-stop is being a brat. So, those 2 a.m. whines need to be answered by you with a trip outside)
Anyway...when you put her in the crate..during the day, when you can't watch her...and she is whining..let her whine. But AS SOON as she is quiet for 5-10 minutes, LET HER OUT...they pick up on it quickly that a QUIET puppy gets to get out.(you are rewarding the behavior you want!) Of course, praise her for being quiet..go for a potty break, maybe a small treat and then back in the crate if you can't be watching her full time. Repeat.

Don't be concerned if she doesn't use the crate as a resting place...preferring the floor, (or couch) near you. In all my years of having dogs, only my Bull Terriers have gone to sleep in the crate when it's not bedtime. All others prefer to be by me...however, EVERONE is crated at night..it's their bedroom...and of course, crated in the car (crates equal seatbelt) in motel rooms, at my moms...how do people live without dog crates!

Kari...sounds like things are looking up. Keep up the good work...on those hot days, it's helpful to exercise BEFORE it's hot outside (at Oh-God-thirty!) or if you have a treadmill, teach your dog to use that. They work wonders.

cheers....nancy

[Terrytx]

thanks for the info-I will try it. It will be hard to hear her whine, but I really want her to learn to be comfortable in the crate.