Passport privacy invasion

[Escher]

Ok, so I just submitted my passport renewal.

I think a rectal probe would have been more enjoyable.

Ok, I expected (but was nonetheless disappointed) when they asked for SSN#. Apparently the IRS needs this info, and you are liable tax-wise if you don't. There's a workaround (send the IRS a separate letter saying you are applying for a passport), but I wasn't in the mood to bother.

So, all the normal stuff...when/where I was born, address, blah, blah, blah.

Then they asked if I was married. What does that have to do with my approval? Even worse, they asked her birthdate, birthcity, marriage date. What the heck? Uh, this is MY passport I'm applying for here. Of course, my wife is adopted from a foreign country, so this gets really tricky.

Then they go into my parents. Names, birthcities, birthdates, maiden names, the whole nine yards. Again, what does it matter-- I'm a citizen!

Then, seemingly just to frost me over, they go into my employment...what my job title is and where I'm employed. I swear to god, it was there. I tried to leave that blank, but NNOOOOOOOO!!! the **** govt drone insisted I fill out that area, too. I should have told her I'm independently wealthy just to watch her try to figure out what job code that should be. But what the hey? why would the state dept care? What, plumbers or used car salesmen aren't allowed to get passports or something?

I'm just one of those poor schmoes who doesn't like feeding out info onto gov't forms that are passed from one inept, overpaid govt worker to another for no apparent reason.

Can someone tell me a good, common sense reason why the state dept needs to know my: social security #(yeah, that's a lost cause), wife's birth city, parent's birthday, or my occupation?

Oh, and joy!, by the way the new passports are all RFID'd so anyone with a 90$ RFID reader can glean all the above info just by standing near me. Hello, swipe readers, anyone? What, credit card technology just beyond our govt's ability?

Grrrrrrr. Privacy is the first champion in democracy. I'm feeling very exposed.

[SheRa]

what a load of crap! this is really discouraging to me, because next year i'll be leaving the country for the first time (not including canada) for a honeymoon in may, and i'll hafta go through this too. and if they're asking for your PARENTS' info, that REALLY sucks, because my biological father (who i don't speak to) is from iran originally. i can only imagine the BS that i'll have to deal with...

sorry that you had to go through so much. and just to RENEW? wow!!

[Escher]

yep, it was a renewal of an expired passport.

However, the lady in front of me was very fishy.

First off, she "recently discovered" that the name she's been using all her life (she looked 25 or so) wasn't actually the name on her birth certificate. Whoops. She discovered this after her (immigrant) parents died and she was going through their belongings. (she also added she has no living relatives, for good measure) Oh, and the pictures she brought in apparently didn't match her face, as the government drone asked "are these you?"--to which she replied "yes, the joys of botox". I'm also trying very, very hard not to be prejudiced against her just because she's wearing a hajab.

So lets get this straight...new face, new name, dead immigrant parents, birth certificate was just a (non-certified) copy, but sure, we'll file this application anyhow.

If that application is approved I will absolutely lose all faith in the Dept of State.

[SheRa]

wow. i wouldn't have thought the first part was TOO weird, because my stepdad just found out that his last name wasn't what was on his b.c. after his mom died, but all that other stuff on top of that? SHEESH!!!

[Clover]

Can someone tell me a good, common sense reason why the state dept needs to know my: social security #(yeah, that's a lost cause), wife's birth city, parent's birthday, or my occupation?


Well, if you are suspected of using a stolen passport, you'd probably be asked these questions to see if you can give the same answers the original applicant did. And I don't remember everything that's been on the form in the past, they've always asked if you're married and what your occupation is. I don't like the RFID business either.

BTW, I've known several people who first got copies of their birth certificates as adults and discovered their given names were not what they used all their lives. In my case, the hospital certificate with the cute little footprint is filled out correctly, but when I got an official birth certificate from the state the first and middle names are missing altogether and my mother's maiden name is spelled wrong.

[mayre]

This is my current joy... Found this out when I got copy of my birth record to file my passport app.... My birth record with the state has the incorrect birthdate, it's one day off. The county has a correctly amended copy, but the state's record is official - and wrong. A copy of the county's record is meaningless, and since they have to print certified copies of birth records from the state's system, and it has the wrong date on it. If only I could find the old copy from back in the typewriter days, it matches my ID (and the date my mother and the hospital can agree that I was born).
In addition to the $15 I paid for an incorrect copy, I must fill out a ream of forms and pay an additional $40 to "amend" the state's incorrect record, and then another $15 for a corrected copy of my record. All before I cough up the $90 and turn in my passport app....aargh.

[Escher]

67$ to the State Dept
30$ to the post office for their share of the work (making me raise my hand and swear that I filled out the form honestly) :rolleyes:

plus pictures (15$ at the post office)

But better do it now, before the US/Canada border crossing rules go into effect in Jan, 2008.... Come Dec 2007 there's going to be a tidal wave of applicants....

[LA98]

BTW, I've known several people who first got copies of their birth certificates as adults and discovered their given names were not what they used all their lives. In my case, the hospital certificate with the cute little footprint is filled out correctly, but when I got an official birth certificate from the state the first and middle names are missing altogether and my mother's maiden name is spelled wrong.

I had to ask my mother to send me my birth certificate when I needed it to apply for my marriage license. (I don't know why I didn't have it before then!) I discovered, at the age of 29, that the middle name I'd been using my entire life is nowhere to be found on my birth certificate. My mother said she couldn't decide on a middle name in the hospital when the paperwork was done, and "just picked one later"...

[Ann1965]

Oh my! I need to get a passport soon, I've never had one. But, my first name is spelled differently on my birth certificate than they way my parents taught me to spell it. So, which spelling do I use? My social security card has the correct spelling.....am I in for a hassle? Also, I was raised by parents other than my biological ones and I have not earthly idea when their birthdays are. Uh oh, this isn't looking good!

[juliew]

Wow, I just renewed a few months ago and I don't remember having to go through all of this... I don't think mine has the RFID either. I was not at all thrilled when I read that they were doing that. Guess I'm good for another 10 years. I wonder what they'll come up with by then.

[funnybone]

I just applied for my Canadian passport a few weeks ago because it had expired. Unlike the US, there is no renewal allowed, just an new application, whether you've had one before or not. The questions are not as intrusive as the ones you describe. Here is a summary of the they want:


Name, address, birth place and date, if you are a citizen of another country, name at birth if different, date of marriage and name of spouse. You need to submit a BC or certificate of citizenship, have a guarantor who works in a one of the listed profession (Dr. Dentist, police officer, judge, lawyer, etc), who knows you personally for at least two years, sign the application as well as the back of one of your pictures (and "certify that it's the true likeness"). The pictures must be dated and stamped by the photographer. Plus, the guarantor has to sign a photocopy of one additional piece of ID (DL, SSN, etc). Oh, also they ask for names of two references - someone who isn't family, and someone other than the guarator. There were no questions about my parents, or their citizenship whatsoever. My kids forms, for those under 16, had to have both parents sign the application and they didn't need additional ID. And I thought these forms were a pain in the butt. :rolleyes:

I sent the applications by Fed Ex on Aug 17, and I just received my kids passports this morning via Fed Ex. I am hoping mine will come in a few days. Canadian passports are only valid for five years, so unless I become a US citizen in that time, it will be the same process all over again.

[MISSINDI]

Wow, I just renewed a few months ago and I don't remember having to go through all of this...

Same here. I got a new passport (old one was WAY expired), renewed my dh's and got a new one for our son, and don't remember any of this. SSN yes, but nothing on the application about my parents, or my occupation. This (https://pptform.state.gov/DS82/MainDS82.aspx) is a copy of the form if you're doing it by mail (we did ours at the PO).

Anytime you're dealing with the government, it can definitely turn into a hassle, but at least passports are good for awhile. ;)

[stefania4]

Can someone tell me a good, common sense reason why the state dept needs to know my: social security #(yeah, that's a lost cause), wife's birth city, parent's birthday, or my occupation?
I loathe the idea of an RFID on my anything.

As for the other questions, the occupation might be because of work visas... but that would make more sense on a visa application than a passport. The SSN, I'm guessing, is to differentiate the 4,230 David Thompsons of the US from the one David Thompson on the no-fly list (making this up here, folks, just picking a random, common name). I have one friend whose name is so common that just here in town there are 17 other people with his name; two of them with his exact birthdate. That and locating medical records to identify remains. Unpleasant thought, but true.

The other questions could possibly come in handy for making sure your loved ones really are your loved ones in the event that the person traveling is taken hostage. I guess. Last names aren't necessarily an indicator of a relationship; I didn't take my DH's last name, and his last name is different from his mother's since she remarried.

But even that doesn't fully hold water. A passport is good for 10 years. A lot of marriages aren't. If something happened to my DH and I remarried 5 years later, my passport would - until renewal, I imagine - still list my DH's birthplace as Texas, whether my then-DH hailed from the Lone Star or not.

Sorry, guesses but no answers...

[Sookie]

67$ to the State Dept
30$ to the post office for their share of the work (making me raise my hand and swear that I filled out the form honestly) :rolleyes:

plus pictures (15$ at the post office)

But better do it now, before the US/Canada border crossing rules go into effect in Jan, 2008.... Come Dec 2007 there's going to be a tidal wave of applicants....
I just checked and mine expires January, 2008!! :eek: Can I renew mine sooner or do I have to wait until then? DH lost his passport. That should be a nightmare.

[Escher]

They also asked when/where I was planning to travel.

But I honestly told them I have no travel plans, I just think it's a good idea to keep a passport valid in case I decide to travel.

The agent acted like I was odd, but that's just how it is. That and I was hoping to get a passport before they all are RFID'd. As it stands now, only some processing centers have the RFID, but they will all have it before the end of the year. Maybe I'll get lucky.

SookieI rather suspect you can renew early. FWIW, a lost passport had a checkbox that you needed to check and guestimate when/where, but if you have other documentation didn't seem to be a big deal.

[Clover]

have a guarantor who works in a one of the listed profession (Dr. Dentist, police officer, judge, lawyer, etc), who knows you personally for at least two years, sign the application as well as the back of one of your pictures (and "certify that it's the true likeness"). The pictures must be dated and stamped by the photographer. Plus, the guarantor has to sign a photocopy of one additional piece of ID (DL, SSN, etc). Oh, also they ask for names of two references - someone who isn't family, and someone other than the guarator.
My goodness, this seems like way more trouble than answering a few questions about my parents. What if you don't know anybody in the listed professions? The only one from the list above that I could use would be my dentist, but although we're quite friendly in his office, he doesn't really know me "personally." I could be a criminal or a terrorist, for all he knows. And what if you're kind of a loner, or move a lot--I don't think I'd want to be a reference for somebody I didn't know very well, and maybe get dragged into something.

[Escher]

And good thing there's no such thing as a crooked police officer or doctor....

at least they have lawyers included.... everyone knows a lawyer will do or say anything for a buck...after all, that is their job, right?

[funnybone]

And good thing there's no such thing as a crooked police officer or doctor....

at least they have lawyers included.... everyone knows a lawyer will do or say anything for a buck...after all, that is their job, right?

LOL - I know it's crazy too. You can have a document "in lieu of guarantor" signed if you know no one. I guess the professions are the ones that are either licensed of those who have sworn an oath.

[Leslie Ferguson]

They also asked when/where I was planning to travel.

But I honestly told them I have no travel plans, I just think it's a good idea to keep a passport valid in case I decide to travel.
Straight from the horses mouth when I got my passport a couple years ago - this isn't required information so I didn't give it.

Their estimation of why travel information was important was to potentially provide some sense of urgency but that's what the express processing is all about right?
Les

[mbrogier]

They also asked when/where I was planning to travel.

But I honestly told them I have no travel plans, I just think it's a good idea to keep a passport valid in case I decide to travel.

The agent acted like I was odd, but that's just how it is.

Um, you live what, 20 minutes from the Ambassador bridge? You might just want to brave the 3 hour long line for some bbq, cheap medications, and pot. :D

I'm just thankful that my adoptive parents went through all the red tape to get my birth certificate to have their names on it. Makes everything a lot easier.

I need to go ahead and get my passport renewed. I missed a last minute trip to Amsterdam because I didn't have a valid passport. (Dad was going to send me over to pick up some dogs.)

I'm wondering if all of these questions are being asked now because the government realizes they messed up and let all these people into the country that shouldn't be here. I guess they're hoping they'll slip up when they come in to renew their passports. ...but then again, that woman in front of Escher had suspicious written all over her.

[funnybone]

I'm wondering if all of these questions are being asked now because the government realizes they messed up and let all these people into the country that shouldn't be here. I guess they're hoping they'll slip up when they come in to renew their passports. ...

Impossible as anyone getting a US passport is a US Citizen already. Unless they start revoking citizenship, there is nothing for anyone to slip up on - unless they are trying to assume someone's identity. I have a green card, but have to have it for 5 years before I can even apply for citizenship.

[Lauren]

[QUOTE=funnybone]My kids forms, for those under 16, had to have both parents sign the application and they didn't need additional ID. And I thought these forms were a pain in the butt. :rolleyes: [QUOTE]

In the US there are strict rules around both parents signing and witnessing the applications for minors. Guess it reduces the number of parents kidnapping their kids and leaving the country. :o

We got the kids passports last year when they went to Africa and DH and I took a day off from work so the four of us could make the trip to our town hall and be done with it. :D

[oceanjasper]

My goodness, this seems like way more trouble than answering a few questions about my parents. What if you don't know anybody in the listed professions? The only one from the list above that I could use would be my dentist, but although we're quite friendly in his office, he doesn't really know me "personally." I could be a criminal or a terrorist, for all he knows. And what if you're kind of a loner, or move a lot--I don't think I'd want to be a reference for somebody I didn't know very well, and maybe get dragged into something.

You can submit a notarized declaration in lieu of guarantor.

I am in one of the professions that can be a guarantor and have received calls from the passport office to verify specific information on the applications I have signed. Luckily, I have only had people I know well ask me to sign for them. :)

[Angelina]

What is an RFID?

I am glad I am still an Italian citizen. Yes, I have to deal with the obnoxious people at the Italian consulate, but they don't ask anything and they definitely don't verify anything. I told them I wasn't married because I couldn't find my marriage certificate and I changed names (hyphenated with my husband's last name). They didn't check or care.

They all act too bored and superior to worry about it. ;)

Angela

[Canice]

OMG, your post cracked me up! Having dealt with Italian beaurocracies both here and in Italy, I know just what you mean. When I was going to go to school there, I went to the consulate to get a visa - they just raised their eyebrows and asked why. When I told them it was because I'd be there longer than legally permitted without a visa they just shrugged and said, "no one cares". And this was back when you had to register with the police when you moved in!

[Escher]

What is an RFID?


RFID, I believe stands for Remote Frequency Identification

It's the same sort of technology that is used to deter shoplifters... put a small tag on an item and when it passes near a device that can read it, it will send out it's hard coded signal. The readers basically continuously send out a signal that says "are you there" and the tag, when close enough, says "yes, I'm here, and this is what I have to say:"

In the case of passports, it will send out a response that includes all the data in your passport.

I believe there are many troublesome aspects to this... not only your name address and date of birth, etc are given to potential identity thieves with the scanner, but imagine a scenario where, say, terrorists are looking for Americans to abduct in a foreign country.... simply walk around the coffee shop and "ping" when you get a response, there's your American....

The benefit to it is A) allows electronic tracking of when a passport is used (I'm not sold that this is a "benefit") and B) displays to the border guard the electronic picture/data submitted with the passport to expedite processing.

Personally, I think all the benefits could be obtained with a credit-card like swipe strip, that must be physically presented to be read (IE, can't be read from a distance)

The Dept of State says that the passport can be protected from being read at a distance by enclosing it in a metal case, but what % of people will know/bother?

[lindrusso]

Personally, I think all the benefits could be obtained with a credit-card like swipe strip, that must be physically presented to be read (IE, can't be read from a distance)

I totally agree. When I first read this, I was thinking that was what RFID was in the first place and didn't see a big problem with it. However, if you can read these things from a distance, certainly there is potential for all KINDS of trouble.

So Escher, you need to invent something you can house your passport in that shields it from these readers until you are ready to present it to someone. :)

[Escher]

So Escher, you need to invent something you can house your passport in that shields it from these readers until you are ready to present it to someone. :)


Well, my folks think I wear a tin-foil-hat anyhow, maybe I can store it up there...

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/afdbhead.jpg

[Sookie]

In Europe don't you have to hand in your passport when you enter a hotel or casino? That could be problematic!!

[sneezles]

In Europe don't you have to hand in your passport when you enter a hotel or casino? That could be problematic!!

No, I've never had to hand it in though you might have to show for ID purposes. I'd never turn over my passport to anyone other than at the port of entry for verification.

[funnybone]

No, I've never had to hand it in though you might have to show for ID purposes. I'd never turn over my passport to anyone other than at the port of entry for verification.

We've had to turn over our passports to the cruise line, but I think that applied to everyone that didn't hold a US passport. I was reluctant, but that was the rule. We got them back before we left the ship. This was for both NCL and RC, and pre 9/11 too.

[sneezles]

We've had to turn over our passports to the cruise line, but I think that applied to everyone that didn't hold a US passport. I was reluctant, but that was the rule. We got them back before we left the ship. This was for both NCL and RC, and pre 9/11 too.

How odd! I mean if you get in trouble while you're on a shore excursion what happens then?

[funnybone]

How odd! I mean if you get in trouble while you're on a shore excursion what happens then?

Not sure. Fortunately it didn't happen.

[Robyncz]

My favorite conspiracy-theorist friend (who, besides being a little bit nutty is bonafide brilliant, and who travels all over the world on business) strongly recommends microwaving new passports to disable the RFID. . .

[sneezles]

My favorite conspiracy-theorist friend (who, besides being a little bit nutty is bonafide brilliant, and who travels all over the world on business) strongly recommends microwaving new passports to disable the RFID. . .


ROTFLMAO! Oh Robyn, thank you so much for that laugh and valuable piece of information. It truly made my day! LOL!!!!!

[HejazSunKat]

My favorite conspiracy-theorist friend (who, besides being a little bit nutty is bonafide brilliant, and who travels all over the world on business) strongly recommends microwaving new passports to disable the RFID. . .

LOL...Excellent! Did you ask him for how long and at what temp? :D

[Escher]

which would be great, except it's a crime and a sure-fire way to get the attention of the border patrol who can arrest you on the spot with possession of a tampered passport.

Therefore the Attorney General, in the name aforesaid,accused the aforementioned Lin Yi guilty of forging,altering or tampering with a passport or using or having inhis possession a passport which he knew to be forged,altered or tampered with; demanded that the said accusedbe proceeded against according to law and that he besentenced to the punishment of imprisonment for a termfrom six months to ten years in accordance with theprovisions of article 5 ...