"Teens Have Unrealistic Goals"

[stefania4]

This article was on a local newsite (11alive.com). Am I the only one who thinks that the "self-esteem movement" of praising C-minuses and the simple act of showing up is at least partly to blame?

"According to a new study from the University of Florida, a growing number of high school senior have unrealistic goals. The gap between those who leave school with career plans and those who actually achieve their goals is growing.

That is one explanation for the largest nationwide drop in SAT scores in 31 years.

Researchers say too many students with ambitious goals took the standardized test but did not have the grades and academic backgrounds to perform well.

In Georgia, 70 percent of high school seniors take the SAT event though only about half go on to college or a technical school.

Researchers blame a decreased emphasis on grades, a weak high school curricula and an increase in students choosing community colleges over four-year universities.

In 1976, 50 percent of high school seniors wanted advanced degrees compared with 63 percent today. The number of students actually getting those advanced degrees has remained the same.

The University of Florida study can be found in this month’s journal of 'Social Problems'."

[lindrusso]

This article was on a local newsite (11alive.com). Am I the only one who thinks that the "self-esteem movement" of praising C-minuses and the simple act of showing up is at least partly to blame?

Ack, don't get me started.

Was it on these boards someone was talking about how schools weren't going to display honor roll students' names because it might make the others feel bad?????

The self-esteem movement is probably to blame for all the terrible singers that audition for American Idol, think they sound like Whitney Houston, and can't believe it when the judges tell them they stink.

[beacooker]

Yes, I agree with you stefania. A group of moms from my son's school meets weekly with a child psychologist, and this is one of his big issues that he talks about. That, and the elevated lifestyles people often give their kids, like spa days, perfectly decorated rooms, lots of toys, etc. He feels, and I agree, that by doing this, you are giving your child unrealistic expectations and also not giving them incentive to grow up. He says he is seeing a lot of older teenagers these days who don't have or want drivers licenses (bc mom will drive them anywhere they want to go), and who don't want to move out of their parents houses, because they are catered to so much at home.

[ellielk]

My son finally figured out that his 10-year old daughter wasn't working up to her potential because she thought that 'trying' was all she had to do. He realized that her years in sports and being told, 'Nice try,' made her think that she didn't have to get it right; all she had to do was try.

Once he pointed out the difference and how that would affect her grades, the grades shot up appreciably.

However, her other grandma now thinks that daddy is being too hard on her. And, other grandma is a teacher!

[sneezles]

While they may be partly to blame I think the overall cirriculum is very lacking. Around here the majority of the graduates do go to the local junior college for the first two years. My DSs call it High School Part Deux! And most are shocked when they get there how much they don't know! Especially basic stuff, like how to wrtie a paper! Neither son that graduated from our local school were required to write a term paper ever! Fortunately they spent most of their school years in private schools in Houston so college wasn't quite a shock to them!


BTA: all 3 sons went away to a 4 year school and two have graduated (the youngest is in his second year). While the older two have moved back (DS#1 lives in his own house but shows up frequently for dinner) both do earn they're own living. DS#2 just graduated this month but works for us so it may be awhile before he can afford his own place.

[stefania4]

My son finally figured out that his 10-year old daughter wasn't working up to her potential because she thought that 'trying' was all she had to do. He realized that her years in sports and being told, 'Nice try,' made her think that she didn't have to get it right; all she had to do was try.
I clearly remember a gymnastics meet where whoever was in charge brought half the number of award ribbons (1st - 3rd place) as were needed. So instead of having us compete with others at our level, we ALL competed for the same ribbons. And yes, a few of us scrappers at the lower ability level were able to walk away with the occasional 2nd or 3rd place ribbon, having beaten not just our same-level competitors but the ones more advanced as well.

Can you imagine the parental furor if that were to happen today? My sister had to leave the room when someone in her mother's group was considering taking her 10-year-old daughter to a psychologist because of the "trauma" of not being one of the 3 (of 20+) students selected to have artwork displayed.

[zwieback]

I agree with Sneezles. I went to a private, parochial high school and I barely had to study to get good grades in high school. They didn't teach me how to read well, how to write well. I wasn't prepared for college in any way. I went to a very good college and had my butt kicked once I got there. My high school just did not prepare me well enough. They did pass the star football player in classes he obviously wasn't passing because hey, he was a star and what potential he had! Well, he goes off to college and can't play because of his grades. He never got back on track. That's pretty sad. My high school could have worked more with him, even held him back if necessary. But hey, the school won 2 state championships because of him.

I don't have a problem with praising a kid for C minus grades if s/he is honestly trying and doing his/her best. I think the situation depends on your kid. Some kids say, "hey, I tried" and you know they half-heartedly tried. Other kids you know they really spent the time and worked hard but still couldn't get a better grade. I don't think, in that case, a child should be punished or what have you. It's certainly a judgment call for each child.

[LA98]

I clearly remember a gymnastics meet where whoever was in charge brought half the number of award ribbons (1st - 3rd place) as were needed. So instead of having us compete with others at our level, we ALL competed for the same ribbons. And yes, a few of us scrappers at the lower ability level were able to walk away with the occasional 2nd or 3rd place ribbon, having beaten not just our same-level competitors but the ones more advanced as well.

Can you imagine the parental furor if that were to happen today?

Agree completely! I was a competitive figure skater as a kid, and if you didn't place 1st, 2nd or 3rd, you didn't get a medal. And the groups were fairly large, based on ability. Yeah, there was disappointment if you didn't win a medal, but you got over it and it made you want to do better to get it the next time! I went to a local figure skating competition a couple of years ago. The kids were divided into groups of 3 at every ability level so that *everyone* got a medal! I think at the very lowest levels that can be good and a confidence booster, but as the kids progress I think it's very detrimental. It's certainly not going to prepare them for life's ups, downs, and disappointments, and isn't that one thing sports is supposed to teach?!

[funnybone]

Alysha - Our school district posts the Honor Roll students names in the local newspaper. This is for both middle and high schools. They list A and A/B students separately. I'm not sure if grading is consistant in the coutry, but an A is 90- 100%, B = 80 - 89%, C = 70 - 79%, D = 60 - 69% and an F is anything below 59%.

As for grades, I thought there was more emphasis on the kids to excel these days. Our district actually posted higher scores this past year. I'm not sure of the percentage, but most around here do go to a 4 year college upon graduation. I know 4 kids in the neighborhood who graduated in May, and each one has gone out af state. DS1 got one high C (78% last year) and we were not thrilled because we didn't think he put much effort into the class. It was his freshman year in HS and we basically told him it was a learing exerience. If he wants to get into a good college, he can't afford one C.

[cchhbb]

One reason so many students in Georgia take the SAT is due to the Hope Scholarship. The Hope Scholarship will give all Georgia students with certain grades a full tuition scholarship to an instate public school. I have been told that the Hope Scholarship has caused major grade inflation as many high school teachers are pressured to make sure that their students qualify for the scholarship.

Cheryl

[funnybone]

One reason so many students in Georgia take the SAT is due to the Hope Scholarship. The Hope Scholarship will give all Georgia students with certain grades a full tuition scholarship to an instate public school. I have been told that the Hope Scholarship has caused major grade inflation as many high school teachers are pressured to make sure that their students qualify for the scholarship.

Cheryl


When we lived in GA, the grade was a B, but it had to be mainted in college, if I remember correctly.

[krhm]

When we lived in GA, the grade was a B, but it had to be mainted in college, if I remember correctly.

Yes, that's true. And yet, almost half of the students who attend the largest community college in GA must take learning support courses, meaning that they have graduated high school but did not test into the collegiate level of work. So, they're on the HOPE scholarship with a B average, but they can't work at a collegiate level? :confused:

One thing I must say in defense of community colleges, however, is that in many cases, the curriculum for the freshman/sophomore level courses is the same as that of the four year universities. We use the same textbooks, same common course outlines, and have the same work requirements. And in many cases the instructors are more educated and more experienced than many of the TAs at four year schools. All of our courses transfer into the four year institutions because they're considered to be completely comparable.

[sneezles]

One thing I must say in defense of community colleges, however, is that in many cases, the curriculum for the freshman/sophomore level courses is the same as that of the four year universities. We use the same textbooks, same common course outlines, and have the same work requirements. And in many cases the instructors are more educated and more experienced than many of the TAs at four year schools. All of our courses transfer into the four year institutions because they're considered to be completely comparable.


I agree and our local is an excellent school my sons just called it Part Deux because that's where 95% or more of the graduates go. I told mine that staying at home wasn't an option. Learning to live without mom and dad is something everyone needs to learn when they're 18. Granted they are still supported by us at that time but they have to make lots of decisions on their own.

[badunnin]

At our professional development this year we were looking at the new state requirements for graduation in Michigan, which includes 2 years of a foreign language. However, the way the state words it they need 2 years of foreign language "experience". And I think that's what much of high school is these days - it's not about mastery or learning, it's about exposure and experience. Now, I don't think that someone can master a language in 2 years, but there are certain concepts which can and should be mastered after 2 years in a classroom. Which I'm all for, in certain regards, but if we keep talking about the "high school experience" as opposed to learning, I think we will keep slipping further in the wrong direction.

[Goin' Coastal]

but an A is 90- 100%, B = 80 - 89%, C = 70 - 79%, D = 60 - 69% and an F is anything below 59%.



Back a few decades when I was in high school, we had a stricter scale. An "A" was only 95% - 100%. B = 85 - 94%, C = 75 - 84%, D = 65 - 74% and an F is anything below 74%. It was a school geared for the college prep student as 95% of the kids went on to college. During the years I taught high school, the school was geared to the general student as very few went on to college - I found standards were not nearly as high. I'm not sure what the answer is - all kids are not college material and they deserve an education which will prepare them for a successful adulthood. Everyone loses when standards are set low so no one fails.

[cminmd]

I think a bigger culprit is the celebrity/ fashionista/ star culture. Every kid wants to be a rock star, actor (Brad Pitt level not some mere character actor), heiress (too late!) or pro athlete. Good idea to obsess over the .1 percent of jobs with 90 percent of the cultural focus. Teens are demanding 7 jeans, D&G shades and Burburry bags. They want to live like celebs even from their parents basements. With the constant attention of people being famous for being famous it never even occurs to kids to be bakers, mechanics or nurses.
I knew America was in trouble when The Simple Life came on. In past generations the show and audience would have a laugh at the incompetence of silly rich dilettantes trying to do an honest days work. When the show instead mocked the honest average people who opened up their homes, yikes. Trouble!

[funnybone]

Back a few decades when I was in high school, we had a stricter scale. An "A" was only 95% - 100%. B = 85 - 94%, C = 75 - 84%, D = 65 - 74% and an F is anything below 74%.


Wow - when I went to HS in Canada (I graduated in '82), we were graded by actual marks in % and not by letters. Anything below 50% was a fail.

[stefania4]

I think a bigger culprit is the celebrity/ fashionista/ star culture. Teens are demanding 7 jeans, D&G shades and Burburry bags. They want to live like celebs even from their parents basements. With the constant attention of people being famous for being famous it never even occurs to kids to be bakers, mechanics or nurses.

IMHO, it's the parents' job to give their kids a reality check. The media can yak all they want, but if the family refuses to indulge it then its power is dramatically lessened, e.g. "We know you want to play professional basketball someday, but the truth is that very few people get to do that. Now go do your biology homework and THEN you can shoot hoops." When kids are praised for every last thing they do no matter how well (or poorly) they do it, then of course they're going to think they make the grade. During my brief foray into teaching elementary school, when we were told to praise everything from pencil-sharpening to using a napkin at lunch, I often wondered how these kids would cope when their 2.3 GPA didn't get them into Harvard as they fully expected.

I was so proud of my 5-year-old niece the other day. I asked if she was going to take ballet again this year. She said she would, and that "I'm not a very good ballet dancer, but it's really fun and I get to see my friends and it's good exercise. I'm better at soccer, but soccer doesn't start until springtime." Fair enough.

[hlao23]

Back a few decades when I was in high school, we had a stricter scale. An "A" was only 95% - 100%. B = 85 - 94%, C = 75 - 84%, D = 65 - 74% and an F is anything below 74%.

Just wanted to comment that the scale does not automatically make grading strict. One of my college professors had a scale where 80-100% was an "A" Everyone was so excited...until our first exam. Very few people made "As" After I'd had her for one class I was able to manage "As" but they were usually not over 90%.

[Curiosity Hears]

Years ago I remember reading that the child is well served to be praised when doing well in something for working hard and not for being super smart. The first way reinforces the reality of having to work hard to achieve a goal. The latter approach can even backfire and the child may start to think he/she is smarter than he/she is or than other people and therefore they shouldn't have to work as hard to achieve goals.



(is this worded so that it makes sense? It was a long article read over twelve years ago).