Anyone here do "crying it out"?

[misskitty100]

DD is 10 months old and STRONGLY prefers to sleep in our bed for all naps and at night.

Our doctor said we could go the "crying it out" route. Just wondering what others experience have been with crying it out?

[SDMomChef]

My kids are older now, but when they were younger, we did the "crying it out" at about that age for bed (it never seemed to work well for us for naps). It is hard - who can stand to hear their baby crying for 10 minutes?! BUT, after about a week, the crying stopped, and they did settled down in their cribs.

It is hard, but I would encourage you to try it.

[MinEaston]

Hi there...

I personally haven't done CIO (well, not consistently) but there are a bunch of moms over on the new moms/scooters/wobblers threads in the Healthy Living section. You may want to cross-post there, too.

Do you have the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, by Marc Weissbluth? It's worth reading, as it discusses children's sleep patterns and development, and has good suggestions for sleep solutions in the CIO arena.

Good luck!

[stacy7272]

This works great for some babies and is horrible for others. I don't know how one would tell the difference without actually trying. Ten months old is a great age to do this. (It is suggested that the baby be at least 6 months old.)

This worked wonderfully with my kids. We did DS at 9 months and he cried for 15 minutes - we checked on him (touched his back) every 5 minutes - he fell asleep just as I was going to open his door for the third check.

The hard part was when he awoke in the middle of the night. We just let him "cry it out" without checking on him and that was 40 minutes. :( But if you're going to do it, you do it. (I would set a limit for yourself so if your child isn't the type to benefit from this method you can stop - maybe an hour? - depends on how you feel.) The second night was identical to the first and the third night he fell asleep without crying and slept through the night (12 hours).

DD was a bit harder - she was 7 months when we did it. She cried for 40 minutes (we checked every 15 minutes - 2nd time parents and all ;) ). I can't remember much more than that but I believe she also took just 2 nights and was done.


I think the keys to success are to commit yourself to doing it - don't quit before you hit your limit AND to set a limit so you know going in that you won't make your child suffer too much if this isn't going to work for them.

I got this technique form Ferber's book - Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems. This book goes into more details on the method, like checking every 10 minutes the second night, 15 minutes the third night. Plus, it discusses naps (which I, like SDMomChef, didn't have as much success with). Here is a link:
http://www.amazon.com/Solve-Your-Childs-Sleep-Problems/dp/0743201639/sr=1-1/qid=1157564119/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-7563386-4362506?ie=UTF8&s=books

[IndyKF]

I tried it with my first, who was a horrible sleeper as a baby. I think one night he cried for about an hour. Maybe I'm impatient, but it just didn't work for us.

I guess it couldn't hurt to try it, and I'll leave you with the old saying "this too, shall pass" ;) (FWIW, I know your DD is still too young for this, but as soon as we moved our son to a bed - vs his crib, he slept on his own.)

[mgs]

I agree with the pp. It works for some kids and not for others. We did it for specific habits - when we stopped the paci, when he started standing up in the middle of the night (that was a 2 week ordeal of us going in and laying him back down. Once he learned how to sit back down we stopped going in) And for us we learned quickly that when we went in it made things worse. Dr Weissbluth states that the going in and patting on the back works well for 75% of kids. Well, not mine. It just extended the crying. So we didn't do that. BUT he rarely cried for more than 20 minutes. (the first time we went in to try to soothe him we were up to 2 hours!) He never really cried himself to sleep....usually just stopped crying would lay down and chat himself to sleep. But at least the crying stopped.

Now I have a friend who has a kid who it just never made a difference. they would do cio for 3 nights then a week later they would have to do it again over and over again. So they just gave up and eventually once the baby went down to 1 nap/day she was so tired that she just went quickly to sleep at nap and bed.

I don't really think there are too many people that feel it works well for naps. We had/have a huge issue with naps :rolleyes: but that doesn't seem to be your problem so I won't go into how to solve that.

We have had a lot of sleep issues - pretty much our son is "too excited to sleep" as I call it, and I have all the books memorized. if you are thinking about any other method just ask! I can give you a summary. :p

All in all my best advice is choose a method, stick to it for 10 days and if you see NO improvement move on, but stick to that one method consistently before you move to the next. Consistency is key.

Good luck

Meg

[zwieback]

We actually did something like that when DD was 3 months old. We let her cry for 5 minutes, soothed her but didn't pick her up, let her cry for 10, soothed her but didn't pick her up, etc. It's hard but, I think it is a necessary evil. Now, DD is 2 and she never fights going to sleep (well, only on VERY rare occasions), she'll only sleep in her bed (or crib at grandma's). She's a really good sleeper. I think we had her sleeping through the night at 3 months. We also never let her sleep in our bed, not once. Whether or not to do that is everyone's choice, I'm certainly not disparaging it or anything. It was just something we didn't allow and it worked for us.

There is a book called Healthy Sleep Habits, Healthy Child by Dr. Marc Weissbluth. It gives some good advice.

[ChristyMarie]

I think it is cruel. Think about what you are really teaching your baby - that when something is wrong and they communicate the only way they can, by crying, you are not going to come and help them. It eventually *works* because they realize you are not going to help them and they give up trying. How sad is that?

:(

[zwieback]

I think it is cruel. Think about what you are really teaching your baby - that when something is wrong and they communicate the only way they can, by crying, you are not going to come and help them. It eventually *works* because they realize you are not going to help them and they give up trying. How sad is that?

:(

But on the other hand, what are you teaching your child if you go to him/her every single time s/he cries? That you get what you want, whenever you want? I think what someone said previously about setting a time limit for yourself is the key. I doubt anyone here would let their child cry for hours and hours. Certainly, not every cry is a cry of pain or of something being wrong and I think if something was seriously wrong, a parent could probably discern the difference in the cries.

[sneezles]

I think it is cruel. Think about what you are really teaching your baby - that when something is wrong and they communicate the only way they can, by crying, you are not going to come and help them. It eventually *works* because they realize you are not going to help them and they give up trying. How sad is that?

:(

It's not really sad considering there's nothing wrong with the child other than he's upset about not getting his way.

[tbb113]

I attempted to do this with my second child...but he had an easy gag reflex and if he cried too hard, he puked. I decided that it wasn't worth it :rolleyes:

[DebGo]

i think you have to have the "heart" for it. i tried and couldn't do it. dh had to hold my hand and practically keep me in bed without getting out for very, very, very long 5 minute periods. it was too trying on me. like christymarie i felt it was cruel and i didn't want my child receiving that message from me. fwiw, dd sleeps through the night and has for many years. (she's 4 now). in my humble opinion, you need to stop the bad habits -- YES, but the crying out routine is the hard way to do it. there are many other tried and true ways with books to read (try The Baby Whisperer -- i didn't do this either, but friends did). i'd do some research first and give other options a try before i used the CIO routine

[stacy7272]

As someone who did this method (I posted above), I didn't like the idea either. But, after 9 long months of very little sleep - letting him cry it out was much better for him than what I felt like doing!!!!!

Sounds sad but I had a very difficult baby and we had to put him to sleep in our arms (1/2 hour process) only to put him down and have him wake up. The whole process would begin again. This would go on multiple times before he would finally stay down only to wake up in a few hours to go through this again. A human being can only take so much and as much as I resisted the idea of crying it out, I finally gave in and it turns out that was exactly what DS needed.

He was finally able get the sleep he needed so badly but wasn't getting and he was much happier as a result. I was much happier, DH was much happier and it was the best thing we ever did.

I will say that we were lucky that both my kids took well to this technique as not all babies do.

[Shechef]

Our DD is also not a good sleeper. We had tried everything, and cio was really the only option left. When the child won't sleep, and getting them up only keept us and her up, we had to let her cry, nothing else worked. At least that was the case with us. Now she is 2 and still does not sleep well. She still fights naps and bedtime.DH and I still don't know who she inherited that from, we love to sleep!
Good luck and HANG IN THERE!

[imloulou]

We let both our kids cry it out. It was VERY hard (especially with my first) but we stuck with it and it eventually worked. I am soooooo glad we stuck it out. I think it also set a base for our parenting style.

If you can...my vote would be to let them cry it out.

[DebGo]

we had to put him to sleep in our arms (1/2 hour process) only to put him down and have him wake up. The whole process would begin again. This would go on multiple times before he would finally stay down only to wake up in a few hours to go through this again

this was our dd#1 also... still didn't "feel right" about the CIO way. to be honest with you, i had to remember what a blessing this child was (don't get me wrong at 3am it wasn't always an easy thought!) and how lucky i was to be her mommy. that helped me through the longer nights after we chose NOT to continue the cio methodology. yes, there were nights i was up for 2-3 frustrating hours trying to put her back to sleep... but fast forward a few months later and DD#1 slept perfectly. we still have issues trying to get her to go to sleep on her own. we figure it won't always be like this.

we are starting to try the "love and logic" way of letting her choose, "do you want daddy to lay down with you tonight or do you want to try to go to sleep on your own?" that way when she chooses "daddy laying down with me" once a week daddy can say, "i let you choose all the other nights, now it's my turn to choose..." hopefully we can make the "daddy" choices become more frequent and maybe by the time she's 5 she'll be able to go to sleep on her own :rolleyes:
debbie

[bekki]

This blog has a lot of great info on CIO and other sleep issues. The best article is where she helps you figure out if your child is a fit for CIO.

http://moxie.blogs.com/askmoxie/

(post about sleep in particular)
http://moxie.blogs.com/askmoxie/2005/12/quick_and_dirty.html

[Beth Y]

Also, you need to realize that there is a lot more to Ferberizing, as it is often called, than just "crying it out". I strongly suggest that you go to the library and check our Dr. Ferber's book. The first thing he does is run you through possible actual problems which may be causing your child not to sleep by him/herself. Then, once you are satisfied that there is not a problem, but that they just need to learn to get to sleep by himself, then there is a very specific method to follow. It is not just "let them cry". When I read his book, I had a much better understading of what I was trying to do and felt much better about trying it. It worked for me, like a charm, for all three of my kids. Even the twins!!!!!!!!!!

[mrswaz]

I think it is cruel. Think about what you are really teaching your baby - that when something is wrong and they communicate the only way they can, by crying, you are not going to come and help them. It eventually *works* because they realize you are not going to help them and they give up trying. How sad is that?

:(

I agree with you to an extent. Babies don't just cry. They cry because they need something- and sometimes, all they need is comfort. I tried to CIO with my DD because "children are supposed to learn to put themselves to sleep, blah blah blah." It was awful. We lasted about 3 days. What she wanted was Mommy, and the comfort of Mommy's presence. And that is one thing that my children will always receive when they ask for it. Giving your children comfort when they need it as a baby is hardly a precurser to a demanding child later on. DD is now 6 and is an awesome sleeper. If she has a bad dream or is sick in the middle of the night, she gets Mommy whenever she needs it. DS was the same way- and I still find myself laying down with him for a few minutes most nights (he's 2.5). We both enjoy it.

I think that by doing the opposite of CIO you are showing your children that their needs are important to you. After trying CIO once, I vowed my children woule never, ever cry because they want Mommy and are being denied that.

[Terri_A]

I think it is cruel. Think about what you are really teaching your baby - that when something is wrong and they communicate the only way they can, by crying, you are not going to come and help them. It eventually *works* because they realize you are not going to help them and they give up trying. How sad is that?

:(

My DD used to cry when I made her eat vegetables...I guess that was cruel too??? Sometimes we have to make them sad/mad, etc to do what is best for them in the long run. It's not fun for anyone - them or us, but you do what you have to do.

I agree that CIO is not for every child, but has some merit with some children.

[DebGo]

Sometimes we have to make them sad/mad, etc to do what is best for them in the long run.

just your opinion...

They cry because they need something- and sometimes, all they need is comfort.

it's okay to comfort a child when he/she is crying regardless of the reason. to be able to say, "i'm sorry honey, i know you think those peas are yucky and would rather not eat them." at least validates their feelings and shows them their opinion matters. doesn't mean i'm not going to ask them to eat them anyway.

just my opinion...

[fancyn]

Okay, here’s my humble take on this, though I will admit it’s NOT right for every child!

At my ripe ol’ age of 27 :rolleyes:, I have a very old school thought on parenting. DH would have rather listened to nails on a chalk board then DS cry; but CIO was truly a miracle for us. I will admit, we did it at about 5 months vs. 6 mos- 1 yr. I don’t think it’s cruel or teaching them a sense of abandonment if you time it and keep it consistent – you’re reassuring “baby” that you’re still there, but won’t give into demands (d@mn they’re smart ;)!) Now, DS goes down for naps/bed without an argument and if he knows he’s tired and being “nasty”, he’ll tell mama it’s time for night-night (he’s 19 mos.) My most influential philosophies are:
- It’s my job as a parent to give him what he needs instead of what he wants (a good night’s rest v. wrestling in parents’ bed)
- It’s my job to make him a flexible, versatile adult who’s well adjusted.
- To give him all the love and the support to let him know self worth – without over coddling.

I may be a little self-righteous on this, but what we’ve learned has worked for us and has made a world of difference in our enjoyment of him and our lives.

[misskitty100]

Wow! Thank you everyone for your insight. It really helps to know that I am not the only one struggling with this!!

The Moxie blog is great too! I will start checking in there occasionally as there was a ton of great info!

[mgs]

I do think it is kind of selfish to do just for the sake of doing........I mean, OK the baby is 3 months - time to sleep through - we are crying it out. But to a certain extent you have to be the parent sometimes and even though they are young, you have to start teaching them. Like I said we did it for specific behaviors. And you have to really watch your child to get the timing right. Our son only cried a max of 20 min one night....20 bad min... but not the hours I hear other mom's go through. If your kid is crying over an hour then the time isn't right IMHO. will it work? yes, eventually, but maybe you shoudl just give up for a few weeks and try again.

And of course there are other methods that don't work as quickly like Baby Whisperer or the No-Cry Sleep Solution. They take a lot of work from you and a lot more time.

At the parents center I go to the woman who runs it once said to a mom of a 1 year old who was still up at night......"I don't know a single person who tried cio who didn't come back to me later and say I wish I had done it sooner" Well that is a huge endorsement for CIO - but I beg to differ. Like I said, for my friend I was talking about - her baby didn't cry much at all - she would only cry 20 min or so maybe 30 tops for 1 or 2 nights but the problem would come up again in a week or 10 days. So after a while she thought what was the point? (And it didn't bother her to hear her DD cry) and eventually the baby just simply grew out of it.

Sounds like most of the ladies here who tried it had good experiences, and I believe most do....but some don't and some babies just won't respond to it.

My one thought about your situation is that it might take a little longer only because your baby is still in YOUR bed. So you might want to try going a little slower, like teaching just enjoy the crib first. Play in the crib with toys... then a nap in the crib maybe with you in the room........ The babywhisperer teaches that sometimes you might have to sort of 1/2 get in the crib - maybe put your head on the mattress - until the baby is asleep. This wasn't our issue but hey when you are despereate for sleep you will try anything, and let me tell you when you are only 5'0 getting any portion of you in the crib is hard. :D I used to lay my arm down next to him and pat his butt and sh-sh-sh....

Oh! and put an article of your clothing in the crib. Could one of your t-shirts that you have worn and not washed fit over the crib sheet? Or your bra? I hear this works wonders for babies. I slept with his little baby for a couple of nights then put it in his crib with him.

Good luck.

[Mpenny1001]

We never had to do this for nighttime sleep with DD as she slept through on her own since about 8 weeks. We did do CIO for naps when she was 5 or 6 months. Prior to that we just held her for all her naps. At 5 months she stopped being able to fall alseep in our arms and she also wouldn't sleep in her crib. She became seriously overtired, and that isn't healthy. The CIO took one day and about 10 minutes total of crying. I would absolutely do it again in a heartbeat. It was awful to hear the crying, but she had been crying anyway and not sleeping, so this certainly seemed like the better option. If you do CIO, there are some things that will help - be sure you already have a bedtime routine established, be consistent, etc. I recommend the Weissbluth book "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child". He talks a lot about sleep patterns and the biology of sleep, and if you decide not to try CIO, you can use some of that info to help come up with another option that will work for your particular family.

[KristaMB]

The babywhisperer teaches that sometimes you might have to sort of 1/2 get in the crib - maybe put your head on the mattress - until the baby is asleep. This wasn't our issue but hey when you are despereate for sleep you will try anything, and let me tell you when you are only 5'0 getting any portion of you in the crib is hard. :D I used to lay my arm down next to him and pat his butt and sh-sh-sh.... Yes, when you are desperate for sleep you may try anything, like climbing completely into the crib. Uh, not that I've tried that or anything. :o

With DS I had the best luck patting him and shushing him. We did do some CIO, but he did really well getting to sleep on his own after the first few minutes. DD was in our bed on and off until about 4 months old, and I had a harder time transitioning her. She is one of those babies who didn't stop crying after 10 or 20 minutes. There is a futon in her room, and for about two weeks I slept in there, brining her onto the futon with me when I was too tired to deal with her crying in the middle of the night. After she had fallen asleep with me on the futon, I would transfer her to her crib and try again.

I think since your DS is older, you will probably have a bit of a harder time. I wish you the best of luck and a ton of patience as you go through this transition.

[ChristineVA]

I did it. It worked for both of my kids. Of course I did it when the were 9 months old. Each of them still insisted on a once-a-night waking at that age, and I had had enough. We did it and after one week they were sleeping through the night.

It is very hard and I don't agree with it for VERY young babies. I think the Ferber method says to wait until the baby is 6 months old.

I think 10 months is the perfect age to start!
Christine

[LaraW]

We have done CIO with both of our kids. DD had a very hard time learning to go to sleep on her own, and we did CIO with her for a few days when she was about 4 months old. I don't think she ever cried more than 10 minutes at a time, though, but before that, getting her to sleep could and often did take hours. We'd rock her, walk with her, sing to her, and she'd wake up as we were putting her into bed.

I think we've only had to CIO with DS once or twice. He's been a good sleeper, but when he learned how to roll onto his tummy, he was doing it in the middle of the night, and would get "stuck". He'd cry for one of us to flip him back, and when we did, he'd be on his tummy again and fussing before we got out of the room. I couldn't do this all night, and so we just decided to let him cry and he is fine, and now sleeps on his stomach pretty exclusively.

Both of our kids would soemtimes cry as we were putting them down, just kind of protesting being put in bed, but they both would realize soon that they were tired, and would just go to sleep.

[sparrowgrass]

My MIL thought I was wicked because I did not rock my babies to sleep. I tried it, with both of them, when they were tiny. The instant their heads touched the crib sheets, they woke and began to cry. Both of them seemed to need that little bit of crying (less than 5 minutes) before they went to sleep.

I got some good advice when I was a new mom--a older friend said, "Decide, right now, which one of you is the mom, and which one is the baby, because somebody is gonna be in charge, and it really ought to be you."

Babies can train you to do their bidding--if they get hugs and kisses and songs and something to eat when they wake up at night, they will wake up every night. (You would too!)

If they get a quick check to see if something is wrong, and no attention, they will figure out that fussing in the night is not worth the trouble.

Of course, I am not talking about leaving a hungry baby to cry if he is not big enough to make it thru the night without that 2 am feeding, or if he is sick. But most moms (and dads, too, I suppose, though not my ex :mad: ) learn which cry means hunger or hurt.

[KimKelly]

Sleeping is a behaviour that sometimes needs to be learned. If you teach your child that every time they wake up you will come to them and soothe them then they will not "learn" to put themselves to sleep. Everyone wakes during the night, but most of us don't even know it.... because we just drift right off back to sleep. This gives us a good, quality sleep. If you got up every time you woke up your sleep would be interrupted and not as restful.

I think we actualy help our children if we can teach them to go to sleep on thier own.

I can speak from experience......my son woke up every 1 1/2 -3 hours for the first 18 months! I "enabled" him. He was my first child and I wanted him to be happy and comfortable, so every time he woke I would go and nurse him. He finally got to the point that he would only nurse for a minute or two and then go right back to sleep. He finally got to the point he needed to nurse to go back to sleep! After 18 months of no more than 3 hours straight of sleeping I let him cry (I was absolutely exhausted...). I sat outside the door and cried too for 56 minutes until he went to sleep. He woke up 1 1/2 hours later and cried again....this time for only 1/2 hour. We made it thru the night and by night 5 he was only waking up once, fussing a bit and then he would go to sleep on his own. We had a few set backs over the years, like when he was sick, he became a good sleeper.

It's a difficult decision, and I felt to blame for his not being able to go to sleep on his own. All I can say is that it worked for us.

Good luck to you,
Kim

[Farhana]

I think it is cruel. Think about what you are really teaching your baby - that when something is wrong and they communicate the only way they can, by crying, you are not going to come and help them. It eventually *works* because they realize you are not going to help them and they give up trying. How sad is that?

:(

I agree with you. It is cruel. I have an almost 3yr old who didn't sleep thru the night until she was a year old. Sometimes she would wake up upto 5 times when she was around 3 months and she was only BF until she turned 6 months, so yes it was painful sometimes but I can't imagine letting her cry for 10 minutes just to teach her how to sleep on her own. They learn it anyways but if you try CIO they also learn mommy won't be there when you need her, maybe all they need is just the smell or warmth of mommy and I can't put my sleep first before my child's needs.

They learn from you and don't blame them if they ignore you when you're 80, live all by yourself and call them asking for a hug and advised to get used to get that from you cat. Now, that's sad.

[sparrowgrass]

I agree with you. It is cruel. I have an almost 3yr old who didn't sleep thru the night until she was a year old. Sometimes she would wake up upto 5 times when she was around 3 months and she was only BF until she turned 6 months, so yes it was painful sometimes but I can't imagine letting her cry for 10 minutes just to teach her how to sleep on her own. They learn it anyways but if you try CIO they also learn mommy won't be there when you need her, maybe all they need is just the smell or warmth of mommy and I can't put my sleep first before my child's needs.

They learn from you and don't blame them if they ignore you when you're 80, live all by yourself and call them asking for a hug and advised to get used to get that from you cat. Now, that's sad.


What a crock. Yes, they do learn from you, and what you teach them by catering to their every whim is that THEY are the center of the universe, and no-one else's needs matter. That is ok behavior when they are tiny infants, but it is your job to help them grow out of infancy.

Nobody is talking about tossing a kid in a dark room for 24 hours a day. We are talking about a healthy family, where children sleep and parents get some much needed alone time.

Making the baby the boss, as in getting up with him every 2 or 3 hours for a year, is guaranteed to cause family friction and creates a mama who is tired and cranky all day.

BTW, my kids are 23 and 27, busy with their own lives, but they still love their mama, even though she cruelly left them to cry for 10 minutes decades ago. Of course, I didn't let the problem build until they were toddlers and were capable of crying for hours.

[ourthreegirls]

I just love CIO "discussions".
I agree it's cruel at say, newborn to 6-8 months. I myself couldn't do it until they were at least 9-10 months. Very young babies do not know how to "manipulate" mom and dad. As they get older, they "figure out" they can get mom or dad to do certain things by crying. Take my friend Heather for example...she has 6 year old twins, a 9 month old, and is due with her 4th in March. That sweet baby is a mama's boy through and through. He wakes up NIGHTLY, screaming his head off. Dad goes in to comfort him and nothing helps until Heather comes and picks him up. In a split second, the crying stops, and baby gets a big ole' smile on his face. You can't tell me that's not a manipulative 9 month old. In an effort for everyone in the house to get some sleep, she ends up ON HER BACK (which you're not supposed to do the farther you get in a pregnancy) with him on the couch...on top of her. That's certainly not going to work when she's got a big belly! So she is thinking of trying CIO. Is that cruel? What choice does she have?

As for me, I did it with all of my kids. My oldest is only 14 months older than my twins (they are 7, and twins almost 6 now). There was NO WAY I could keep rocking my oldest (who was about 10 mths at the time) to sleep with a big double-sized pregnant belly. And then with the twins, well I think that speaks for itself. I am only 1 person.

I guess my point in all of this is that there are REASONS people resort to CIO. Nobody WANTS to do it. It's really really REALLY hard to listen to your babies cry. And it really just doesn't work for some families. But, like with my friend, when you KNOW your baby is "workin' it" so mommy will hold him, something's gotta give :)

Jennifer

[DebGo]

[QUOTE=sparrowgrass] Making the baby the boss, as in getting up with him every 2 or 3 hours for a year, is guaranteed to cause family friction and creates a mama who is tired and cranky all day.
QUOTE]
although i was definitely sleep deprived and tired all day, i wasn't cranky all day. for me it was a choice. i didn't want to model "cranky" to my child, so i chose to model "not cranky". imho it depends on the mama's attitude. i was certainly tired, but at the same time grateful to be a mommy. so grateful. i felt it was my job as a grateful mommy to meet my child's every need (at those tender young ages). i by no means don't do that now. dd#1 is 4-1/2 and when she tells me i'm not her friend, i tell her i was put on this earth to be her mommy, NOT her friend.

[leebee]

I did CIO with both of my children. Before anyone calls it cruel, maybe you should really understand what it is about. It should NOT simply plunking a child down one day out of the blue and letting them scream until they fall asleep or not. When used correctly, it is part of a process. I did CIO with both of my children. My son is 5 yo, and my daughter is 19 mos. Both of them are great sleepers. And I don't mean that they never wake up. They do. When they need me, I go to them. But, when it's bed time, I just announce, "Bed time!" and they both say, "Okay," and run around kissing everyone else goodnight. Then off we go. I can't remember the last time I had a whine or an argument about bedtime. We have created a loving routine around bedtime, and they are great about it. When they were infants, I picked them up all the time when they cried ("But you'll spoil them" was something I heard all the time). But with both of them, at one point, enough was enough--they just didn't want to go to sleep when they needed to, whether I was with them or not. I co-slept w/ both of them for a few months, and then intermittently continued for months after that. I nursed both of them, so was up quite often. A child needing a nightime feeding is vastly different from a child simply refusing to go to sleep. My daughter needs 9-10 hours of sleep at night. If I left it up to her, she wouldn't get it. I can give them choices where they are appropriate, but at some point I need to do what is best for them. And that includes eating at the table, picking up toys, not watching TV all day long, not going outside alone, and lots of things they wouldn't choose on their own. I'm the parent--it's my job to see to their needs and to create a safe, nurturing environment for them. That's more loving, IMHO, than teaching them that they have leverage in every decision and will always have a choice. They don't always have a choice about things. And my kids are the most loving, sweet little things ever. They are secure and affectionate. What did my son say to me a couple of weeks ago? "Sometimes it's like there's a million hearts in me, and a million hearts in you." Yeah, he really has been damaged by the five or six nights it took him 15 minutes to cry himself to sleep.

[hlao23]

I just love CIO "discussions".
Very young babies do not know how to "manipulate" mom and dad. As they get older, they "figure out" they can get mom or dad to do certain things by crying.

I just wanted to chime in that CIO is very much a form of operant conditioning that can be done with almost any living creature. We train rats like this in undergrad. The "manipulation" by the baby, toddler, adult, or any other living creature is almost never a conscious choice...it's just what we're used to and how we've been "trained". We ALL have ways we've been conditioned on some level. It seems to me (though I'm making assumptions based on what's been written here) that CIO might be just a way of making the parent aware of what effect their behaviours have on the behaviour of the child and showing them that they can make changes.

Just using your quote as a way to interject what I think is an important point. :)

[ClaraB]

To those who say CIO is cruel, can you not see how incredibly offensive that is to those who have used it? How would you like to be accused of being cruel to your kids? It is certainly possible to get your point across without resorting to namecalling, but I suppose you couldn't express your smug superiority that way :rolleyes: .

I used Ferber's method with my youngest when he was about 1 1/2 (I think - that time of my life was a sleep-deprived blur ;) ). I'm not comfortable with using it on an infant, but a healthy toddler is completely cabable of sleeping through the night, and if he doesn't, it's because he's becoming manipulative. Toddlers absolutely NEED limits set for them, and that is our job as parents. My DS may have screamed when I wouldn't let him play with knives, so does that make me a bad mother as well?

I also firmly believe that it is possible to become so sleep deprived as a mother that you are no longer a good, or even safe, parent. When I hear stories of parents who forget to drop their babies off at daycare, and the baby dies of heat in the car while the parent is at work, I wonder just how sleep-deprived the parent must have been :( . Sleep deprivation also impairs a driver as much as drinking does, so why do we accept it as something the parent of an older baby or child just has to put up with?

[leebee]

My DS may have screamed when I wouldn't let him play with knives, so does that make me a bad mother as well?



I THINK you're supposed to offer a choice: "Honey, would you like to play with those knives and go to the emergency room later, or would you like to give them to mommy to put away?"

[mgs]

Sadly, an unsafe parent is exactly how I would describe myself for those first 6 months. I don't have family close by, friends that are SAHM's, or a husband who is able to just take off work whenever. He is a resident and his hours were/are haywire. It was pretty much just me for the majority of the care. There were weeks when DH was on nights and would sleep all day. I could have never predicted how poorly I dealt with the sleep deprivation. Since this board is (mostly) anonymous I will say that I did had visions of falling down the stairs with my son in my arms, him getting hurt, and my only thought was, "At least I could get some sleep" :( That is so sad and horrible for me to admit right now, but I think that before the name calling gets the better of us we all need to understand there are always 2 sides to every story. I didn't even do full blown CIO, even through all of the sleep deprivation, I didn't have the tolerance for it. Neither did my husband.

There are people who, I feel, do it for possibly convenience when they feel that their job as a parent ends at bedtime. I truly do believe in nighttime parenting but as a PP stated, if you can't get more than 2 hours of sleep straight and you are crying all day long, then what good are you to your, rightfully so, needy infant? An example of this is my sister who did CIO with her kids simply b/c her maternity leave was up and she needed to sleep. I can understand needing the sleep, but it was way too early IMHO. But just to reiterate my point, who really knows how she dealt with that sleep deprivation except her?

Not every parenting situation is the same and not every baby is the same. Let's just all take a deep breath and please accept that for the sake of some families health, this might be a necessary evil. No one enjoys hearing their baby cry. No one thinks this is great.

Meg

[mrswaz]

CIO is a lot like BFeeding. It's a hot button topic, and people are either very pro or con. I had intended on staying away from this thread, because I am very passionate about my children, and I know I am very anti-CIO. But that was for me. I felt is was cruel FOR ME to do that to my child. I am a stay-at-home Mom, and for me, CIO was selfish. My role in life was to be there 100% of the time for my child. Had I been a working Mom, or had another child on the way, I don't know if my thoughts would have been the same.

I believe the original poster was just asking people's thoughts and experience. I decided to share my experience because it wasn't all glorious sleep and roses- it was quite the opposite.

And for the OP- your child won't sleep with you forever. :) DS slept with me and DH until he was 2 yrs old. That was completely my fault, DH was working out of town for the first 18 mos of his life, so it was more convenient to have him in bed with me, and reduced the likelyhood of disturbing DD during the night. When he turned 2, we put him in his big boy bed, and never looked back. There are still nights when he comes running to sleep with us, but they are few and far between. And in fact, most times I miss my little snugglebug. Especially when DH crawls out of bed in the early AM, and I still have several hours to sleep.

[ChristyMarie]

Babies can train you to do their bidding--if they get hugs and kisses and songs and something to eat when they wake up at night, they will wake up every night. (You would too!)

Last night I realized that my DS not only gets hugs, kisses and food but *gasp* a clean diaper and is rocked back to sleep. Guess he is just ruined for life. :rolleyes:

[sparrowgrass]

Whoa--peace, folks. I have been out of the mommy biz for quite some time, and didn't realize what a controversy this is.

My kids grew up to be happy adults--DebGo, I am sure yours will too. One thing you can say about kids is that they are resilient, and overcome most of the "mistakes" we make, as long as we love them.

leebee-- :D :D :D :D You were being funny, but how many times have your heard parents offer a choice just like that?

hlao23-you said "It seems to me (though I'm making assumptions based on what's been written here) that CIO might be just a way of making the parent aware of what effect their behaviours have on the behaviour of the child and showing them that they can make changes."

Absolutely. I said earlier that if someone patted my back and sang to me and cuddled me and gave me a snack every time I woke up, I would probably continue to wake up every night.

(No, I wouldn't. Don't bother me when I am trying to sleep. Just like I told my kids. :D )

[Terri_A]

Okay...can we all now just agree to disagree. I don't think you're a bad or better parent whichever way you do it.

Parenting is a VERY PERSONAL issue. Children are not cut with cookie cutters...neither are parents. Everyone go do whatever fits your life and your child best....

...and now back to our regularly scheduled programming! :D

[tbb113]

Every child is different...every parent is different. What works for one child may not work for the second child. What works for one parent, doesn't necessarily work for another parent.

My older son was (and still is at 17 years old) a great sleeper. He slept through the night, went down for naps, etc, no problem (actually my only problem now is getting him UP in the morning :D )

Younger son didn't sleep through the night until he was 12 1/2 YEARS old. Yes, you read that right YEARS not MONTHS. He would come into my bed sometime in the middle of the night and then fall immediately back to sleep. As a single parent (with a king size bed) who needed my sleep to function at my job...I lived with it. I just kept changing my mantra from "no one goes to kindergarten still sleeping in their parent's bed" to "no one turns 10" to "no one goes to college" :) He now sleeps like a champ (early to bed, early to rise).

[misskitty100]

I think the CIO is going to work for us. We tried it 2 nights ago and after some crying (off & on) DD fell asleep in her crib. She woke up around 1am and Daddy went to get her and bring her into our bed :o .

Last night there was much less crying and she sleep ALL NIGHT in her crib. She did wake up a bit here and there but she went right back to sleep after a minute or two.

For right now, I am not doing anything different with naps. We will tackle that down the road.

[LA98]

misskitty, I'm glad CIO seems to be working for you. I was avoiding this thread too, knowing it would get heated at some point. I tried CIO, and even though I felt pretty bad about it in theory, the bottom line was that I would have given *anything* for it to have worked for us. DS never, ever slept and I was so far beyond sleep-deprived it got downright scary. Aside from being completely unable to form coherent thoughts, I hallucinated several times (saw things move in my house, not fun) and worst of all, closed my eyes once for a second while driving. We tried it for 3 weeks, DS simply would not give in to CIO, to the point where it *did* become cruel to try and force him to give in. So we stopped. If it had been the scenario where he cried for 30 or 45 minutes for a handful of nights and then learned to sleep through till morning, I would have gladly done it, for his sake (learning how to go to sleep and soothe himself back to sleep when he woke) and for my health and sanity. DS just turned 3 and still cannot go to sleep by himself, wakes up in the middle of the night every night and climbs into our bed. It frustrates me each and every night!

[Jessica]

I think there is a spectrum here. Everything I've read says a baby younger than 6-8 months cannot manipulate you. S/he cannot distinguish between needs and wants and if the baby is crying, he or she needs something.

I can't speak for older children. My DS is only three months and I would never think of even trying CIO with such a young baby. We will leave him in his crib if he is awake and sleepy but if he cries, we comfort him. We are trying some of the techniques in the No-Cry Sleep Solution and so far, they work for us and our child. The Weissbluth book lost me when he talked about letting a baby cry till he threw up. That, to me, seemed unnecessary.

As for sleep-deprivation, I got to the hallucinatory stage twice. It is really scary.

[ChristineVA]

I think there is a spectrum here. Everything I've read says a baby younger than 6-8 months cannot manipulate you. S/he cannot distinguish between needs and wants and if the baby is crying, he or she needs something.

I can't speak for older children. My DS is only three months and I would never think of even trying CIO with such a young baby. We will leave him in his crib if he is awake and sleepy but if he cries, we comfort him. We are trying some of the techniques in the No-Cry Sleep Solution and so far, they work for us and our child. The Weissbluth book lost me when he talked about letting a baby cry till he threw up. That, to me, seemed unnecessary.

As for sleep-deprivation, I got to the hallucinatory stage twice. It is really scary.

I don't think anyone ever suggested doing it on a very young baby since the OP's child is 10 months old. Most recommendations are to wait until at least 6 months of age.

I tried it at 6 months and it did not work AT ALL. I tried it at 9 months and it worked like a charm!

[Farhana]

What a crock. Yes, they do learn from you, and what you teach them by catering to their every whim is that THEY are the center of the universe, and no-one else's needs matter. That is ok behavior when they are tiny infants, but it is your job to help them grow out of infancy.

Nobody is talking about tossing a kid in a dark room for 24 hours a day. We are talking about a healthy family, where children sleep and parents get some much needed alone time.

Making the baby the boss, as in getting up with him every 2 or 3 hours for a year, is guaranteed to cause family friction and creates a mama who is tired and cranky all day.

BTW, my kids are 23 and 27, busy with their own lives, but they still love their mama, even though she cruelly left them to cry for 10 minutes decades ago. Of course, I didn't let the problem build until they were toddlers and were capable of crying for hours.


I used to work in a kindergarten where kids used to tell me how they feel about being left alone in a room alone, a little girl once told me she had a monster nightmare last night and she went to sleep with mommy and how she was shown there was no monster in the room and had to sleep there by herself. You teach them to be independent alright and are "loved" by your children but CIO is the begining of forcing kids to grow up and be on their own, way before they are ready to it. Teaching kids discipline is one thing and make them do something to show they are old enough to do is another.