Can we please go back to the good old days??????

[kwormann]

I was watching an old rerun of I Love Lucy. Ricky is auditioning girls fo his night club act, and tells them they would need to be able to fit into the costume to have the job.


"You girls are all a size 12, arent you?"

Can you believe it? Dancers today would get laughed off the stage if they were a size 12...I wear a size 10 and feel (often) I am fat. Can we please go back to those days????

Kim

[emilycat]

I just wanted to point something out...I admit, thinness seems to be a little more important today than curviness, but sizes are really deceiving.
The clothing industry has hugely deflated the meaning of a size in order to make customers happier; Marilyn Monroe's "size 12" was actually what today would be a size 4...size zeroes and ones didn't come out of no where; they came from 2's and 4's which became 4's and 8's...and this is just in my lifetime.

Granted, I didn't see the episode, so I don't know what the girls looked like, but although I imagine they weren't waify, they probably weren't what we would think of as a size 12, either. Just a thought.

Emily

[This message has been edited by emilycat (edited 01-06-2001).]

[Laura]

Gee when I read your title I thought it was going to be something about when we had more people posting on this board http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/wink.gif. I do understand your frustration, I have a love hate relationship with Victoria Secret. I love all their lingerie but without some surgical alterations and extreme dieting, I will never look in their lingerie the way their models do. This year I am trying to set a realistic goal for myself that involves not only losing a few pounds but more importantly living a healthy life style.

[kwormann]

They were actually all "big" girls, wide hips (or what is vulgarly known as "birthing hips") and full chests. Certainly not waify..and I cant ever see Marilyn Monroe wearing a size 4 because of her chest size...even when I was at my smallest, my curvy figure prevented that.

My point was that at some time in the past, it was more acceptable for women to have curves like God meant for them to, and although DH like my curves, I always feel out of place when shopping for clothes and just in society in general because what is "expected" of me. For my body style, it just isnt realistic.

When I taught 5th grade last year, I had a beautiful girl who was more developed than the others, who were still "little girl" looking. SHe is going to have a curvy figure and although she was the fav of my boys, I know her mother (thin) was on her to lose weight (not necessary). I so worry about our girls when an adult like myself, who has a fairly healthy self esteem, still finds myself secretly worried about my body. They dont even to have the self esteem to help them realize they need to get over it!

Well, enough of my soapbox. Just trying to point out that it was more acceptable to look like a woman was supposed to look like back then and i bet there were less eating disorders.......

[emilycat]

I won't even get into the eating disorder thing, because I could rant about it for hours (I wrote a research paper once about how the media does not cause eating disorders) but although I don't mean to retract what I said in my last post, I think you are right in what society seems to deem as the ideal figure...then again, there was Twiggy... but also Cheryl Tieg, et al.

I have noticed lately, though, especially with some of the VS models, that voluptuous seems to being coming back into style. I do think that more movie stars seem to be slipping more into the thinner realm, but I think that aside from some of the runway stars, waifs are much less prominent now.

And I must add, too, that boys/men definitely prefer curves. I have been told by more than a few guys that I would look better with 5 or 10 (even 15, at which I scoffed) pounds on me. I say, screw (excuse my vulgarity) society...more men will give you approving looks(and women fewer dissapproving, resentful ones http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/wink.gif ) if you're not a willowly little weak-looking thing.

Okay, sorry, I'll stop preaching now. http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/biggrin.gif

Emily

[kwormann]

...plus, shouldnt your objective be to please yourself, not an obscure man????....

[Natasha]

Originally posted by kwormann:
...plus, shouldnt your objective be to please yourself, not an obscure man????....

Bravo, Kim! Most definitely, one s objective should not be to please an obscure (or specific) man, but rather yourself. Of course it s nice when men appreciate how your body looks the way it naturally is (I m unfortunately not THAT liberated) http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/wink.gif, but gaining approval from someone else is not the be all and end all. What counts most is whether I feel satisfied when I look in the mirror or when I see what my body is able to achieve (e.g., running or other physical activities).

About the so-called good old days, though, women were then largely judged solely on their appearance and culinary and domestic skills (not to mention their family background). I think we re all a lot better off now that women s personality and intelligence (esp. personality) count for a lot.

Wow, we cover all kinds of topics on this board! Far more interesting than the policy paper I logged on to the computer to write... http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Natasha (edited 01-07-2001).]

[Kelly]

I would like to add one more "good ole days" thought. Remember when women were expected to stay at home and raise the kids - volunteer at the school, help the elderly neighbor next door? At the risk of getting slammed by all the women who worked so hard to get into the workplace, I have days when I really wish society was still like that. My husband and I both work full time and we raise 2 kids. I hate the fact that school vacation is coming up soon and I;m stressing about care for the kids. I would love to be able to skip work for the week and play.... I do know that we make the choices for ourselves... My family does not live extravagantly, we don't have many extras - we both work to pay the bills. I envy the people that have figured out how to live on one income.

Any thoughts? Please don't slam me on this one - I've had a horrible week already.

[Laura]

Originally posted by Kelly:
Remember when women were expected to stay at home and raise the kids - volunteer at the school, help the elderly neighbor next door? At the risk of getting slammed by all the women who worked so hard to get into the workplace, I have days when I really wish society was still like that.

I for one won't slam you. Although, I think it is about time that women can enter any occupation they desire, I wish I had realized that the one occupation I really wanted when I was sending out all my applications to law school was to stay home with my kids, volunteer more, and take care of my home. A friend of mine (who was also an attorney) used to lament that she was very well educated and knew enough to wish she could stay at home.

I have derived pleasure and respect (and obviously financial gain from my job) but it is nothing compared to the pleasure I get from being with my kids and volunteering my time.

My mom did not have the opportunity to go to college because between she and her brother it was obvious that her brother would be the one to go. I don't regret my college education at all. I do regret going to law school however. I want my daughter to keep all her options open and, if after having gone to college, she says I want to stay home and be a wife and mother, I hope she will have more courage than I did. If she wants to go and save the world and not have kids that's okay too. If she wants to do both, I will try and prepare her as best I can for the sacrifices that end up being made.

Phew! Okay I will now step down from this very large soapbox I have been on and unfortunately get back to work.

[LindaHentzen]

Any thoughts? Please don't slam me on this one - I've had a horrible week already. [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm right there with you, sister! After a month of watching old Christmas movies - It's a Wonderful Life especially, where the "old days" were always perfect, it's so easy to wish for that world.

Actually, I'm a stay at home mom who does the playgroup and PTA scene. I have 4 kids now, but back when I just (!) had two kids and a part-time job, I had many days wishing I could just quit and be at home. I felt like I wasn't doing anything well - work or home. I was very lucky to have an infinately accomodating employer, but eventually my husband an I felt it would be better for me to quit. The second we put that into words I felt an incredible weight lift. But, I didn't "need" to work - so I don't think I have any pearls of wisdom about making it on one salary. I do know though, that there are many days when I miss my job (and that was 8 years ago!) for the different intellectual pace it offered. Maybe it's the "grass is always greener" thing.

What it comes down to is you are a homemaker even if not in the old sense of the word. You are helping to make a home for your family and that will always be something to take pride in.

If your job gives you any sort of sick day, mental health day or other way of skipping out for a day - by all means take it and don't give it a second thought! You need to recharge your batteries. Plan your day in advance - make one of those recipies you've been dying to try, go help out in your kid's classroom, help out at a Scout meeting or play a board game with your kids when they get home from school. Whatever you do - enjoy it without guilt! http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif

[Natasha]

Kelly,

No slam from me. It s a point very well taken. I can certainly understand the desire to stay home with your children though I m not a mother http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif

I hope this week turns out better for you. Hang in there!

[This message has been edited by Natasha (edited 01-07-2001).]

[MrsReber]

I will be a mom, come May and I am already agonizing over having to work. We are not extravagant, either, but in order to provide a decent life for our kids, we're going to have to both continue to work (or win ten million dollars, which I would prefer). Kelly, I am with you all the way- I'd love to be able to stay home and volunteer, but it's just not possible for us unless we want to live in a one room shack in a bad neighborhood.

As far as the weight issue, I went from a size 16 to a size 6/8. In both sizes, I was never wanting for a boyfriend because I kept myself looking decent and dressed nicely and I was just myself. As a matter of fact, I lost twenty pounds AFTER I met my husband and he loved me either way. Right now, I have gained about 20 pounds being pregnant and he is as attracted to me as he ever was. He also gained 20 pounds in the past four years, but it just doesn't matter. I am very conscious of how I look and I hate gaining weight with being pregnant, but it's simply a fact of life- and well worth it in the end. I am more concerned with being healthy and doing the right thing. It seems to me that one of the side effects of exercise and healthy eating is maintaing a lower weight. All women are concerned with their looks, we can't escape it!

[kwormann]

Mrs. Reber..Isnt it nice to have the most wonderful hubbys? When we started dating I was 110 lbs, and after my father died, I got up to 155. Im up and down between 132-138 right now, with the hopes of getting to 120 (I was way to skinny at 110 for my body type). Every now and then I get depressed and tell him I dont understand how he could be attracted to me when I am so much heavier than I was when we started dating, but he informs me he doesnt even notice (he is either wonderful or very smart, or both!)_

I feel very fortunate to have him, because even though I dont judge people by their weight, body size, etc, I always feel Im being judged ny the xtra 15 lbs I carry. Im so insecure that if I werent married I probably wouldnt have the nerve to go out!

Kim

[Jessica]

Just to go back to the beginning. It is true that sizes have inflated, but I don't think today's four is yesterday's 12--I don't see Marilyn's bust in waif attire. Still, the emphasis is always the same--someone else deciding how women should look, whether it is curvy or slender. I doubt we will ever get away from this completely.
On a related topic, it seems I read someplace about clothing companies conforming their sizes in 2002. Has anyone heard about this?

[SusanD]

Kelly - I hear you loud and clear. I'm in the same situation as you & Mrs Reber - I'd give anything to be able to stay home with my baby (due to arrive in late April) but it's just not financially possible. I've heard all the lectures from women of both my generation and my mom's about how women who put their children in daycare aren't "real" moms, and my reaction is generally to either blow up at them or burst into tears (thanks in part to these raging hormones). However I have plenty of friends & relatives who DO have their kids in daycare and they seem to be perfectly well-adjusted kids. I guess it's all in how you handle the situation you're given. My husband is neither a doctor nor a lawyer, nor does he come from a wealthy family (as do many of our friends whose wives are stay-at-home moms). But he is a loving, caring person who is going to make a wonderful father. So even though our finances don't allow for the "perfect" situation, I can still count my blessings for what I do have and just try to be the best mom I can be!

[pmmahan]

a point of reference for the size thing:
in 1955, when my mom was 21, she was 5'4" tall, 117 pounds --- and a size 10. sizes realy have become inflated, especially over the last few years. when I was 19, I bought Banana Republic shorts in a size 6 - they fit perfectly, then and now. I have Banana Republic pants in size 2's now, 4 years later. Hmmm...and I haven't lost more than 5-7 lbs.
Oh, yeah. I am the same height and weight as my mom.

[This message has been edited by pmmahan (edited 01-08-2001).]

[emilycat]

Originally posted by BarrieCov:
I would still like to know what on earth a size zero is supposed to be. Invisible?


I actually wear I size zero, and I'm definitely not invisible. I'm also 5' 2", 103, and used to wear a size 4 at the same size. Those fours I wore at Banana Republic, too, are now zeroes.

[Natasha]

Ohhhh, Emily, where ARE you?!? That s so funny about being invisible - it reminds me of when my sister used to joke that when she came to pick me up at the train station she wouldn t be able to find me because I was so tiny as to have become invisible...exaggerating, of course, but it s still a family joke http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif

Bit of trivia for you: You know how Europe and the U.S. use different sizing systems for clothes & shoes, right? If you look at clothes sizes in the U.S. and Canada, though, they look identical, but I understand that they aren t always. A U.S. size 0 may well be a Cdn. size 2, a U.S. size 2 can be a Cdn. size 4, etc. I don t know if this is always the case, but it certainly has been in my experience (I love to buy clothes wherever I go!) http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/redface.gif It never works vice versa, either - as far as I know, the Cdn. sizes are either the same as the U.S. ones or smaller. Anyway, like I said, that s your trivia for the evening http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Natasha (edited 01-08-2001).]

[BarrieCov]

I would still like to know what on earth a size zero is supposed to be. Invisible?

[SusanD]

Can I add my two cents? I have always been fortunate enough to not have to worry too much about my weight (5'8" and 125-130 lbs.). However, I have often been made to feel like "less" of a woman because of my lack of a figure. I have a very small bust, straight waist, no hips. I hate wearing a bathing suit in public because I feel like I look like a 12-year-old boy. I'd give anything to have a bustline that was at least in proportion with the rest of my body. I guess my point is, we're bombarded with images and ideas of what the "perfect" woman should be - yet no matter our body type, it seems like very few real-life women actually fit within those specifications. Wouldn't it be nice if society started setting standards based on the women we see in our everyday lives? We can only hope that someday...

And in regards to the size issue, can I just tell you how many times I've bought pants - size 4 - that I've had to have SHORTENED! And I'm one of the taller women that I know...what are these manufacturers thinking???

[hhcowgirl]

Gosh, I feel like all I can do today is play devils advocate, but I must put my two cents worth in on this, from sort of a different perspective: as the child, not the mom. I was fortunate enough to have a stay-at-home mom. She was always available to help me with homework, to supervise and nurture me after school, to shuttle me from one enriching activity to the next, and to prepare nourishing foods for my siblings and me. And I cannot tell you how much I value and apprecaite this fact. I, for one, plan to never have children unless I can afford to stay at home with them. I am in an amazing law school, about to embark on a great career, but I will give it up in a second for the sake of my future children. And this is because I witnessed so, so many of my peers (who grew up without a stay at home parent) "take te wrong path," either as a result of a lack of supervision (so that they could get into trouble after school) or a lack of guidance as to making the right academic or moral decisions. All I am saying, I guess, is to PLEASE consider spending as much time with your children as possible--I know I am SO much better off for it. Sorry if this has offended anyone, that certainly was not my intention.

[MrsReber]

hhcowgirl, I am not offended at all by your post. My mom worked out of necessity and back then (20 years ago) there were no "daycare" options for us. We just went home to an empty house and took care of ourselves. Yes, I wish my mom was there to help me with homework and make a nice dinner every night, but she did what she could. I can't say I'm much worse off for having grown up like that. I think in our situation, it made my brother, sister, and I become high achievers because we saw my mom and her attitude ("don't ever give up"). She refused to accept handouts and be on welfare, she got a job and supported her kids when our father failed us. It all depends on the kids and their own personalities. My sister has 2 kids, one in daycare and one in kindergarten and she cut her hours at work to be home with them in the afternoons. They are such wonderful, sweet, caring children. Sure, she wishes she could be with them full time and she's looking into options, but it's just not feasable for them at this time. There is no right or wrong, it's what each of us is capable of. I love my husband to death, but it's not often you find a machinist job that pays enough to support a whole family- especially not in NJ. If it came down to it, I'd rather that he stay home with the kids since it doesn't matter which parent is at home!

[lindrusso]

Originally posted by Kelly:
My family does not live extravagantly, we don't have many extras - we both work to pay the bills. I envy the people that have figured out how to live on one income.
Any thoughts? Please don't slam me on this one - I've had a horrible week already.

I'm a SAHM so I won't slam you http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif . Have you ever sat down with a financial consultant to figure it all out? If you are REALLY serious about it, I would recommend it. I've read many an article that says that once people figure out how much they spend on daycare, lunches out, work clothes, etc. - they are VERY surprised to learn that they actually CAN make it on one income because they are bringing in far less than they realized (once you subtract the expenses of working).

It does require sacrifices - we waited longer for our house, our house is smaller than we'd like, we waited longer for the new car, etc., etc. It may also involve finding an area where living expenses are not horrendous - $50,000 a year salary (just throwing numbers out) will get you a lot more in rural areas than in urban areas.

I just wanted to point out that it's not as impossible as many think. My husband makes a good salary now (but we're by no means wealthy), but didn't always. Somehow you get by. If this is something you're serious about, you might want to look into it further. Even if you find out you can't do without your salary, at least you'd have the peace of mind of knowing you tried.

There are many other options as well - a part time job, a home-based business - other things that would allow more time with the kids. As I've said on this board before - I don't know of anyone who would get to the end of their life and say "Gee, I wish I had spent more time at the office and less time with my kids".

Of course, it's much easier to sit here and make suggestions than to actually do it....

[Jessica]

I had to get my three cents (inflation) in on this one. We don't have kids yet, and if we do, I would like to stay home with them. But I can see the other side as well.
My mother got divorced when we were small and she had three kids under 7, a full-time job and a few part-time jobs. She was there whenever I or my brother or sister needed her, and we are all financially stable, hardworking and independent adults now. I see friends my age (I am almost 30) who still live at home or are dependent on their parents. Don't get me wrong; I love my mother and depend on her love and support, but I think the circumstances made me a strong and independent person. I also had friends whose mothers stayed home, yet they got less attention from their parents than I did and often came to MY house for the love and attention they craved.
My point? What matters is that kids know they are loved and supported, and that is created by the parent and not by the situation.