MrsReber's house selling saga (for those who are interested!) :)

[MrsReber]

I know some of you have been following my saga for a while now. Just wanted to post an update!

For those of you who are just reading my post- DH and I bought another house in VA over a year ago. We listed our house in May and found a buyer on August 25th. They wanted a quick closing, promised not to hassle us because they needed to get out of their rental. The only catch is that they only put $1,000 down and were financing the rest!!

This whole process is beyond frustrating. I was assured that we would see a mortgage commitment from the buyers by Monday. Still haven't seen it.

They sent 2 faxes to our attorney last month. The first was sent after they got the inspection report. I was expecting that. We responded the next day, telling them what we would address and asking them to sign off on the letter. We got nothing. Three days later, they sent a letter telling us that our water filtration system must stay with the house (although it wasn't included and we made it clear we weren't leaving it) and they also told us they were "having difficulty" finding someone to do a septic inspection so they wanted more time. Bear in mind that the inspection period ended on Sept. 15th and they asked for an extension on the afternoon of Sept. 21st! I contacted our attorney and told him that we weren't granting an extension or
negotiating any further until they responded to our letter and produced a mortgage commitment. He called their attorney, but then left for the day so I have no idea what they talked about. (can you tell I have no faith in this man?) I looked into switching attorneys, but the "new" attorney told me it could be costly because the first guy could ask for his entire fee and then I'd have to pay the new guy HIS entire fee. Anyway.....

Today we get a fax from the buyer's lawyer's office telling our attorney "have the seller's sign the attached form so we can do the septic inspection." Huh?? I am bewildered. We said no. Our realtor is furious. By the way, we have NEVER had a problem with our septic tank so we're not sure what their motive is - we think it could be a stall tactic. In any event, the inspection period is long over and our closing date is a mere 20 days from today.

DH called his sister's friend to come do an inpsection today (for us, NOT for the buyers). If there are no problems with the septic, we'll let the buyers waste their money. With only $1,000 down, we figure the more they spend on inspections, the more security we have that they won't walk away on the day of closing.

Each day, I hope for some shred of paper that will at least let us know that we're heading in the right direction. So far we have nothing but 10 open inspection items and they continue to ignore our requests for anything, though they continue to ask us for things. I've been refusing all requests, including documentation on any and all water softer, filtration, etc. (their inspector was at our house and documented all the systems in his report in addition to explaining everything to them during the inspection- as I know since DH was there) and requests for the contract between us and our propane delivery company (none of their business- we told them who we use and that's all they need to know- they can sign their own contract and negotiate their own terms).

Sigh. Thanks for listening and, for those who have been following- thanks for the advice and good thoughts!

[donleyk]

Susan, thanks for the update. You must be ready to pull your hair out. It would be difficult not to shelve the whole thing and start over! I hope you can somehow have a speedy finish to all this.

[lindrusso]

Ditto - Thanks for the update.

I hope that you're rid of these pests very soon, one way or the other!

What a headache..............

[Lauren]

Susan,

I just hope this deal goes through so you and your DH can move on ... literally. They are certainly the buyers from Hell!!!

Sending good thoughts your way! :p

[Terri_A]

Thanks for the update. Hopefully you are only 20 days away from these people being out of your life!!! I think perhaps there's something up with these attorneys and how slow they are!

[MrsReber]

I completely blame this on their realtor and their attorney. I sent a written complaint to their realtor's manager because of her rude behavior throughout this process.

As it turns out, there are no problems with our septic tank. I didn't think there were. We try our best to keep everything maintained and in good working order.

DH says if they want to waste their time and money on a septic inpsection, we should let them. :D

It's funny, though. I am becoming numb to all of this because it's been going on for a month now. It annoys me, but it doesn't get to me anymore. DH and I decided it just doesn't pay to be honest with people. We told them about everything, as required by law in the seller's disclosure statement, and they still prod like we're trying to hide something. DH went so far as to disclose a leak we had in our roof back in March (we had it fixed). There's no evidence of it now, but DH wanted the buyers to know to keep an eye on a certain portion of the roof after heavy rainfall. That's all over now- no more advice from us. They can do whatever they want. It won't be our problem.

I hope we're in the homestretch, too. I want everything worked out NOW so that we have time to focus on moving.

[Robyncz]

Are these the same buyers who were so annoying with their offer? The ones who wanted to close more quickly than you thought you could, and whose agent wanted to "present" their offer to you in person?

[BarbaraL]

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this. I truly don't understand how the buyers can keep pushing for things, when they haven't supplied something as basic as the mortgage commitment. It sounds to me like they're stalling; maybe they're trying to scrape together more funds, or hoping that you'll give in on some points in order to make the sale and be done. Or, could they possibly be trying to back out of the sale and don't want to forfeit the deposit, so they're trying to get you fed up, so you'll call off the deal?

It's especially irritating that you evidently can't count on your attorney either. Does he work for a firm, with a manager to whom you can complain? When I was selling my mother's house, my lawyer communicated with me, I never dealt with the buyers' lawyer directly.

Hope this all works out for you soon. Good thoughts coming your way!

[Gracie]

I guess I didn't realize you could commit to buy a house with $1000 down and no other commitment.

I agree with Barbara - can you contact someone in your attorney's office that's higher up than he is? I would go all the way to the top just to get resolution.

Is there any way you could refuse to sell to these people and relist your house or is there some type of legal commitment or too much money in it already to start over?

Whatever you decide, I hope it's resolved to your satisfaction soon!

Loren

[MrsReber]

Robyn- yes, these are the very same buyers! I almost didn't take the offer because of the realtor's behavior. I made that very clear to the realtor's manager.

Well, my attorney's ears must've been ringing. He finally sent out a letter to the buyer's attorney that shows some back bone! Hopefully they respond. He asked again for the mortgage commitment, told them that he made it clear we wouldn't be signing any form for a septic inspection, told them that we are keeping our water filtration system as we told them- but will offer at $1,000 credit for them to buy one of their own-, and made it clear that we expect them to close on the 23rd. We'll see what happens!

Barbara, all those thoughts are going through my head. They backed out of another deal prior to signing the contract with us and I still wonder why. They say there was termite damage and someone overfilled the oil tank in the basement. But then they claim they didn't notice those things until the inspection. The termite damage I can understand, but wouldn't it be blatantly obvious if someone overfilled an oil tank? Maybe not, I don't know. The bottom line is that they only have $1,000 to lose. They don't even speak English and the wife is on all the financial papers by herself. Her husband doesn't appear on anything- as if she were buying the house alone. The whole thing seems so fishy to me. It didn't feel right from the start so it won't surprise me if it falls through. It's just hard to plan around all of this.

[Dfen911]

Wow...I mean what else can I say? This is just ridiculous that's it's gone on this long.

I work for a Century 21 real estate office here in S. Calif and I've been sharing this thread with a couple of the realtors here and they cannot fathom how this got so out of control with the buyers.

I am so sorry you're going thru all this :( I so hope it gets resolved soon!

[mst]

Susan- keep us updated. I can't believe that all they gave you was $1000. Argh.

[zackaboo]

Susan,

Sorry to hear that things still aren't going very smoothly for you. And I thought that you would be getting settled into my old hometown by now!

Sending good wishes your way!

[Beth]

I can't believe you can't get the finance committment or terminate this nonsense. Sounds like you've adapted and will move on with less stress no either way. That is definitely for the best. Good luck.

[MrsReber]

Basically, I have a plan if we get stuck here and, of course, we have our plan if we're truly leaving. It was the best way for me to deal with all of this. That way, we'll know what we're doing in either case.

Our realtor is with Century 21, too! She and her co-workers can't believe all of this, either.

We got a call from the financial folks, who told DH that it'll be a day or two before they get the commitment because they need more information! It's been 12 days since I told them no commitment, no deal. Does it really take that long? Especially since they claim they already had a commitment on another house? They said it was no big deal to transfer it over to our property. I'd hate to see what a "big deal" was if this is how they treat "no big deal."

Sally, I wish I were there! DH keeps going to the house with stuff (mostly the stuff from his garage!) then he calls from there to tell me how beautiful it is!
Actually, I need to ask you about something for the kids there so I'll be sending a PM shortly. I can't wait till you move back in the area- that'll be great!

We'll see what today brings.

Yeah, $1,000 down, finance the rest- nah, we're not concerned about the commitment. No problem if you don't have one! :rolleyes: .

[Curiosity Hears]

Thank you for the update Mrs. Reber.

What a complete mess. Sounds like you and dh are handling it well.

Not sure how it is in your state, but in California the listing agent would submit a Demand for Performance notification. Usually these are written in such a way that the buyer has 24 hours to perform the required act or they quit. It is binding and can be written in such a way that the deposit is to be forfeited as well. Does NJ have such a thing?

Best wishes.

[Beth]

I would expect something like that too since a term of the contract from the beginning was that they already had a financial committment. They don't still. I'd be talking to the attorney about terminating the contract for failure of one of the critical terms. But if they can get it pulled together and you can move on... that's what you really want, and that's what makes the difficult situations that much harder.

[funniegrrl]

Earnest money is different from a downpayment. Around here, $1000 earnest money would be pretty standard, but it is really whatever the buyer and seller agree upon. The buyer forfeits that money if they back out after the offer is accepted and the property is under contract. A downpayment is part of what is provided at closing.

[MrsReber]

Generally, you'd have your earnest money (the $1,000) then, about 10 days or so later, the buyer would put down an additional few thousand ($5,000 or so) to make the sellers comfortable. I asked for that, but was told they don't have any money so they're financing 100% of the rest!!

I have never heard of a Demand for Performance letter, however, I think they're realizing that we're not playing around here and we expect them to close on our house. Still no word from them today, but it's interesting that the buyer's realtor's office is calling us with updates on the mortgage commitment!

Beth, you're right, what we really want is to just close this deal and move on. However, the lack of communication and abundance of demands is a bit worrisome. But, like I said, I can't dwell on it. I still have a house and 2 kids to take care of and a job to perform. It's the logistical problems (when do we move, how do we move our stuff, etc.) that are causing us problems.

[MrsReber]

Okay, so we are 2 weeks from the closing date on Monday. We still haven't heard anything. Our attorney's office for some reason thinks that our buyers are "shopping" for a new lender!!!!!! :eek: !!! What in the world...???

Today, DH was driving off and he stopped to talk to our neighbor. They sold their house maybe 2 weeks before we had a buyer. Through a Weichert office. Their buyers "lost" their mortgage commitment because there was some "question about thier legality." Their buyers didn't speak English. Our poor neighbors already moved all their stuff out of their house and they're ready to close on another house!! DH and I are now wondering what's going on. Our buyer's agent is from Weichert. Her buyers don't speak English.

The Weichert broker (their realtor's boss) assured me by email on September 29th (8 days ago) that we'd have a mortgage commitment issued "no later than Monday" - meaning Monday October 2nd. Still not here, apparently. So today I sent a "nice" little email to the realtor AND her boss telling them that they need to communicate with us- let us know if there's a problem, if they need more time, if they're not planning on buying our house, etc. Then I told her that if I don't get this resolved QUICKLY that I will have no choice but to notify the state of the fraudulent contract and their blatant misrepresentation of their clients. I also told them that we are prepared to file claims against them for moving expenses incurred, loss of profit on our house due to the declining market and any other expenses resulting from this sham of theirs.

I mean, really, we have 15 days until the closing and they haven't responded to one thing- they sent us 4 peices of correspondence- a demand for us to fix or issue credits for the inspection items, antoher demand for us to leave our water filtration system, then a letter saying that they need an extension for a septic inspection, and, lastly, a form for us to sign so they can do the septic inspection (after we told them NO EXTENSION). I have NOTHING in front of me to make me believe we're moving.

So, here's my question- if we claim the contract was entered into fraudulently, does that give us the leverage we need to sue the Weichert agency directly for damages? I don't see why not. I know we wouldn't get the deposit money, but we'd make a lot more suing Weichert directly. Just a thought. Personally, through all of this, we still have a shred of hope (maybe foolish hope) that we'll close as per the contract on October 23rd. Sigh. Why me?

It's not my intention to threaten these people, we just need someone to be honest with us. We're fine with giving them more time if they need more time, but they have to TELL us first! This is the most frustrating thing.

Thanks for listening and thanks for the advice and kind words.

[newtricks]

Wow, Susan! I wish I had some answers or a good strategy for dealing with these people. This must be so very stressful. Just wanted to say hi and I'm sending good vibes your way. :)

[Beth]

If I were in your shoes, I would assume the deal will not go to closing.

As for damages, you need to look at the contract as see whether the earnest money is specified to be liquidated damages. That could be beween you and the proposed buyers only and leave open the issue of a suit against the agent and brokerage, but it may not.

Keep in mind that if you assert that the contract has failed for want of consideration or fraud in the inducement, yuo will probably have to return the $1000 or have that asserted against you as a counterclaim.

To consider legal action, you need to evaluate what your financial damages are and whether consequential damages are allowed and to what extent in your state. Your anger and frustration generally doesn't amount to much in damages and dollars. You are right that you could stand to collect more from the brokerage and the agent that the buyers who can't seem to get financing, but you will have to show dollar damages and possibly a pattern of dealing. Does the neighbor have a copy of the contract from that same borkerage? Does it have the same handwritten language about the financing? Can you prove there was anyone who didn't buy your home because they thought it was already sold? And so on.

Then you need to decide whether it makes sense for you to spend months in small claims court (if this type of action would be allowed in small claims court) on possibly years in state court. Under most small claims court systems, a defendant can move to transfer the suit to the regular courts -- requiring attorneys, more time, expense and delays. The realty firm is more able to afford that than you are -- and the attorneys may well be paid by their E&O insurance carrier. For them, it would be near painless (unless and until you prevailed), but they could make it miserable for you.

I would definitely make some further inquiries and I would make a complaint with the entity governing realtors in your state -- possibly the attorney general or district attorney as well.

[MrsReber]

Beth, thanks, I was hoping you'd offer some advice. I really appreciate it. IU'll have to talk to our neighbors. I think I'd have to claim that the contract was not valid. It's Weichert's contract, which specifically says that we're only entitled to the deposit (the whopping $1,000) and that Weichert gets half of it! So, basically, the buyers only have $500 to lose since Weichert could easily put the money back in their pockets.
Thanks for mentioning the attorney general. I'll make a complaint to any agency I can think of. I should urge my neighbors to do the same. I think the realtors get away with this because nobody complains.
Like my DH said "they're messing with the wrong woman."

I told DH last weekend that I really don't think we're closing and I'll be awfully surprised if we do. Most of our stuff is supposed to be moved next week, though, and we already paid a $400 deposit for that. It makes me so angry to think about it because the buyers aren't going through any of this stress and probably don't even realize the mess that's going on.

As far as them still wanting a septic inspection, that's really just a stall tactic from my point of view. We'll offer up DH's friend's report on Monday. I had a bad feeling about this from the start and I'm really thinking that their realtor didn't properly explain everything to them. The contract is written in English, after all. They can't read it themselves. They have to rely on interpretations. I'm not sure if their lawyer even speaks Spanish.

[sassysu3]

Sorry to just be tapping into this, I on visit the boards from time to time. I am a realtor in the Atlanta area, and I'm sure I missed a previous explanation, but how did this transaction ever get this far without a pre-approval letter? No letter, no accepted offer. If I am a buyer's agent, I don't move ahead with the home-buying process unless this portion is secure. Otherwise, it can be a waste of my time as well.

I also advise my clients who are on the buying side, if you're serious about your offer, include a serious earnest $ amount to let the seller's know you really are interested in purchasing the property.

Do you have a contingency with the house you are purchasing (sorry, you may have already gone into this explanation)? And did you get to the point of a binding contract, or were you able to keep your house on the market until they have all their ducks in a row?

So sorry for all the stress you've been subjected to. Hope this can come to a resolution soon!
Susan

[MrsReber]

I was surprised to see this thread come up again!

Here's the story- I'll try to be brief- we got an offer on our house in August- a very rude realtor who refused to write up the offer at all until we had committed to a closing date (she insisted on a 3 week timeframe). Her clients had just backed out of another deal for reasons unknown to us. I told our realtor to tell them that until we know what the offer price is, we're not committing to anything (i.e. I won't negotiate a contract with you when I have no contract in front of me). She grudgingly agreed, presented us with a low offer and flew off the handle when we didn't immediately accept. They came up $10k and we said we'd think about it. She got mad and stormed out, offer in hand. She didn't even want to give us one night to discuss it without her standing over us. She yelled at my DH and our realtor, called us "crazy" and "obstinate." I complained to her broker, who turned out to be as useless as she is.

By the way, we are in no hurry. We already purchased our other home a year ago and we've been paying 2 mortgages. It's tight, but not killing us. They only put $1,000 down because they're financing the rest :eek: ! I asked for at least $5,000, but they said they couldn't do it. DH and my brother talked me into accepting. DH is dying to just get out of here and get on with our lives.

So, they give us the contract, which states "already have mortgage committment" since they went through underwriting already for the previous house. We begged them for proof of this committment. It took them 40 days to get us a committment- and they sent one with all kinds of contingencies! They also refused to close unless we allowed them to do a septic inspection. They brought this up well after the inspection period was over. We said "no, let's just close" and provided them with documentation from our septic guy that the system was in working order with no problems. They still insisted and said they wouldn't close without bringing in their own inspector because we are "trying to hide something" as stated in their attorney's letter to us!!!!

We allowed them to spend $1500 of their own money on the inspection- and, of course, nothing was wrong. We had to push the closing date back THREE times because of them. The lastest was on Thursday when they said they couldn't close because our buyer was illegal!!! Her work visa expired. I called everyone under the sun - regional VP, the owner of the entire business (which spans 3 states), the broker, etc. They cleared the problem up in one day- partly because of who I work for (largest employer in the state) and partly because I threatened to sue. I WILL make complaints to the NJ State Realtor Commission and the Attorney General's office- I believe they oversee the commission.

Just so everyone knows- I got a call from my realtor about 15 minutes ago to say they closed! Their realtor tried to pull stuff at the last minute. Apparently they wanted a seller's concession (they financed their closing costs) but they "forgot" to tell us about it. Aren't they supposed to put that up front in the contract?? In any event, we wound up getting $1100 more than we were supposed to get because Weichert once again screwed up- at least this time it was in our favor!

Now I just need to make sure the money is properly wired to our bank!

[Lauren]

Susan, that's great news!!!! Did you move to VA over the weekend? Be sure and report back on the new house, move, etc. Do you and your DH have jobs lined up?

[Beth]

Yipee, Yee Haw and Woo Hoo!!!

May your enjoyment of the new home more than repay you for all your challenges in getting there.

[Terri_A]

Susan-

I'm sooooo excited for you that this hell is over finally. I hope you, DH, and the kids will soon be snug in your VA home!

[Robyn1007]

Finally! :D :D :D

[Wendy w]

At last!

Congratulations! :D

[donleyk]

Susan,

That's great. Thanks for the update and glad it's over finally!

[Kyra]

Susan, I've been keeping up on your saga, which has moved me to laughter and/or tears more than once. I can't imagine how you and your family are feeling right now. Best wishes for no more problems, a safe move, and a happy and healthy life in your new home in VA. Please keep us posted about how you're doing.

Hey, everyone, should we throw Susan and her family a housewarming party?

[Kristilyn1]

Susan,

I am SOOO happy for you and your family!!! I know you've been talking about wanting to move to VA since you started on this board, and finally the last hurdle is done. Good luck with your move and keep us posted!

Kristi

[Canice]

Great news, Susan!
And, sorry to say it, but given some of the things you've shared about your neighbors...sounds like these folks will fit right in! ;)

[Beth]

Great news, Susan!
And, sorry to say it, but given some of the things you've shared about your neighbors...sounds like these folks will fit right in! ;)

Maybe that's the best silver lining of all. :p

[MrsReber]

Thanks, everyone! We're still here in NJ at my mom's house. It's not even 6:00am yet. We went trick or treating last night at my brother's house (his town does it a day early) so that the kids wouldn't miss out. I'm getting our stuff together this morning and then we're driving down today.

It all seems so weird. I have never left a job without having another one lined up!

DH submitted an application on line to a machine shop that's about 15 minutes from our house. They called him as soon as he sent the application in. They told him they weren't hiring, but they want him to come in right away because they have a job for him! DH was a little disappointed- he wants to take a few weeks off to do some things around the new house. He has to work out the details with them, but it looks like he can make pretty close to what he was making here in NJ.

As for me, I told my boss that I don't want to leave them with a mess. My company was going through a merger and it fell apart last month. Meanwhile, there were tons of contracts to be renewed and re-negotiated. So they agreed that I could come on as a contractor, working part time from home at least until the end of the year. My paperwork is all in, we just need to figure out my start date. They took my salary and divided it into an hourly rate, which is fine with me! Even if it's 20 hours a week, it'll be great pay. Plus, I have a few people who are trying to keep me on longer, so we'll see how that works out.

In any event, the money was transfered to our bank account. DH and I are stunned. We have never had this much cash. We're not stupid about it, though, so I know we'll be just fine. Just need to figure out how to manage it propertly. We've been in touch with our financial guy.

And yes, the family that bought our house will fit in just fine!! :D As a matter of fact, the guy across the street from us said he's putting his house up for sale soon. Doesn't surprise me!

I'll be back on line in a day or so! I'm playing on my mom's computer while she gets ready for work. She's so sad, but she knows this is a good thing for us. We're already planning Thanksgiving. My mom wants to move out of NJ when she retires. I sure will miss her, though. Dont' know what I would've done without her all these years.

[newtricks]

Yay Susan! I'm very happy for you and your family. :)

[BarbaraL]

Susan, I'm so glad that this nightmare is finally over for you! Best of luck in your new home. I hope you follow through with reporting the buyer's realtor to the appropriate authorities - no one should be subjected to what you went through.