rather disturbing article in the new issue of Shape magazine [Archive]

food girl

02-07-2001, 12:58 PM

I have not read the article, but I am sure that I have read similar things. I think that in our society we do not get enough activity. Small things like - a garage door opener, automatic windows, automatic doors at the grocery store, escalators, elevators, computers...need I go on? Rob us of calorie burning opportunities.

Our grandparents & great grandparents almost all had their own gardens and many had livestock as well. How many of you have ever hoed a garden for a whole summer? Have you ever dug up potatoes? Canned vegetables? Washed clothes by hand? Made your own clothes? Made all of your bread from scratch? (no bread machines or cuisinarts then) Walked to the store? All of these things at once?? Yikes!!

These are all things that my grandparents did when they were my age.

Did you all know that a "family size" soft drink in 1960 was 42 oz? A meal at McDonalds that was marketed toward a 'working man' in 1950 is now the equivalent of a happy meal?

When I give lectures on healthy eathing I show one of my slides for an instant, then I have people guess what the picture was. Invariably people say "a concentration camp". The photo is a beach shot of Coney Island in 1958. Everyone is thin, you can't find anyone who looks remotely obese. I also have a Myrtle beach shot (1995) that my audience says "it looks like walruses in bathing suits".

Hey, they said it not me.

I do this to make a point that our gene pool hasn't changed much, but our environment and our society has.

Don't even get me started on what we are doing to our children!!

I don't ascribe to the whole idea of being "fit & fat". That is like saying someone is "a healthy smoker". Sure, you may not have problems NOW, but we know what is down the road (diabetes, joint problems, increased risk for cancer) if people remain overweight/obese.

If would apologize for being so blunt, but obesity is an epidemic in our country.

Lisa

emilycat

02-07-2001, 02:08 PM

Okay, now I feel like a dim-wit...my post was unthoughtful and rash and entirely ignorant-sounding...Arrgh! I'm emulating the habits that drive me batty! I think I was just reacting to the implication that no one (including me) can battle the irksome factors of our society even with a healthful lifestyle, because I do think that it's possible.

I do agree that at the heart of the American obesity problem is the mentality of getting the most of something for the least amount of effort in the least amount of time...which equates to monstrous serving sizes, hamburgers that cost you only a couple bucks but also a thousand (not kidding) calories and any sort of gadget or process that requires the least amount of physical, and sometimes mental, effort.

I often bemoan how attached at the hip my younger brother is to the Internet...sure, I love the thing, too, but I have a great imagination and I've always known how to entertain myself. It seems as though many children today need some sort of technological stimulus to inspire them and that, more often than not, does not include getting a dose of the sun.

It also truly angers me that so many schools are prescribing to the "Back to the Basics" theory of no P.E. in order to get grades up...I don't think they realize how very counterproductive that is -- there was an excellent article in Runner's World several months ago on that issue. Kids have an opportunity to be active in school, and I think it's nothing short of a crime to take that privilege away from them.

That's better. http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/biggrin.gif

Emily

pmmahan

02-07-2001, 02:39 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by emilycat:
I think I was just reacting to the implication that no one (including me) can battle the irksome factors of our society even with a healthful lifestyle, because I do think that it's possible.

me, too, emily...that's the part of article that got to me...

Grace

02-08-2001, 08:08 AM

So well stated, Foodgirl!

My grandparents (who are still alive - 87/91 and still going strong!), did so much more than I ever do now, and I don't feel like a slug at all. They never had a car until my grandma was 65 years old (that's when she decided to learn to drive!!). I will never forget how she trudged to Calcagno's (the local grocery store) every couple of days and schlepped those heavy grocery bags back - the straps from the grocery bags dug into her hands so deeply, but she never complained. And they had a huge garden they tended to, plus my grandma cooked like a fiend, and they had no dishwasher. Every few years they painted the outside of their huge house (no aluminum siding back then), and that was a HUGE job. Anyhow, I could go on and on (and they were already in their late 50's when I remember all this - they emigrated from Germany in 1951 - their lives in Germany before they came here was even more difficult - war time, fewer "luxuries", etc.) The point is, I agree with Lisa that we are just about the laziest people on Earth here in the good 'ol U.S.! And it makes me sick. The experts say that 80% of disease in this country is basically self-inflicted (i.e, due to poor diet and no excercise, smoking, etc). 80%!! These things do not mostly happen to people by chance or because of bad genes, by and large. I love how the tobacco industry can get sued for "knowingly killing people". What about McDonalds? Why doesn't someone sue them? They are killing far more people (and they target little kids especially!!!!) than smoking ever did or will. The reality is, neither the cigarette industry nor McDonalds can kill anyone unless we buy their crap. People don't have to buy cigarettes or McDonalds, and with the plethora of information about the consequences of these things, I'm sorry, but I don't feel too badly for people who severely overweight, or have diseases from smoking. I don't hate these people, by any means, I don't wish them to be ill, but I don't feel sorry for them, either. We all make our own choices in life. I could see if no one knew the ill effects of poor diets or smoking, that would be another story. But most people simply don't care. They don't care to know, they don't care to find out, and when they do know, they still don't care. So why should we, who do care, and make the effort to stay healthy, pay exorbitant insurance premiums to pay for those that don't care at all? I guess this is MY pet peeve!! Sorry if I sound harsh - as most of you know, I try to remain neutral on most subjects and don't usually post things like this, but I just had to vent my frustrations!

SusanD

02-08-2001, 09:09 AM

Grace, I couldn't agree with you more!

Nobody holds a gun to these people's heads and says "Smoke this cigarette", but yet when they become ill from a habit that THEY CHOSE to pick up, then they feel that it's their right to sue the manufacturer of that product.

It just goes back to my theory that we are a LAZY, LAZY, LAZY society...with the weight, health and financial problems to prove it. Yes, I bring finances into it because I work for the mortgage division of a bank, and you would not believe the problems that people get themselves into...and still insist on maintaining their chi-chi lifestyles. They feel they're entitled to that BMW or that mansion or that yacht but instead of saving for it as our grandparents would have done, they just run up another debt. Hey, it's the american way, right??

pammy

02-08-2001, 09:42 AM

I read about another astonishing by-product of our instant-gratification, supersize that please society in the paper on Sunday. The number of children diagnosed with type 2 diabetes has shot up dramatically. The doctors interviewed in the article (I think it was in the "Parade" section) said that used to be unheard of. But, because so many young kids are overweight and inactive, they have started to develop a disease of "old age". Horribly sad!

McSix

02-09-2001, 06:49 AM

As a sixth grade teacher, I am confronted daily with kids who moan about having to run in PE, talk about nothing but video games, and bring candy for lunch every day. There are families that are active and do try to eat well, but, honestly, they are in the minority. A very small minority. I blame the system, too, however, because the kids have pop and candy machines and a snack bar that sells junk as alternatives to the school lunch program. Our school has started an afterschool program to teach children to make healthy snacks--it usually has three or four out of 900 kinds participating. I wish I knew what the answer was!

Kristilyn1

02-09-2001, 07:04 AM

Thank you All!!

I mean that. As a mom of two young children I try to give them healthy foods, not too much tv, etc. but this has inspired me to try harder. We have one tv in our house and no video games. That is by choice. I'm perfectly happy to go over to my sister's and let my five year old play with their nintendo for a half hour--but we won't be getting it at my house! I realize that even when you try to be healthy, you can become somewhat complacent. I need to make even more of an effort to get my kids moving and out of the house and to play games that require imagination, not technology, and the best place to start is by example.

Kristi

food girl

02-09-2001, 09:28 AM

Whew! I didn't get to check back in until now and frankly I was afraid that I might have a you-are-being-too-harsh reply. Glad to see that you all agree.

Grace,
You are so right about McDonald's being just like cigarette companies. I have no doubt that they will one day be the target of a class action lawsuit charging them with the nation's obesity & diabetes.

An infuriating thing happened to me yesterday. At lunch I went for a little walk. As usual for Knoxville, there was no sidewalk so I was just walking in the grassy area beside the road. THREE people and A POLICEMAN stopped to ask if I had car trouble and offered me a ride wherever I was walking. They looked at me like I was nuts for JUST WALKING. It is insane that a person walking beside a road is such an unusual sight that a policeman would stop!

Thanks for understanding!!
Lisa

MrsReber

02-09-2001, 09:58 AM

Foodgirl, that is so funny that so many people stopped to ask if you needed a ride! (that would never happen in NJ! We are way too cynical) Anyway, I compeletely agree with everything here. My husband and I saw a tv show about Chinese children being overweight! Seems that our great American culture (fast food) is spreading to other parts of the world now.

Kristi- as a mom-to-be, I am inspired by how you curb tv watching and encourage your kids to go outside. Yes, we do learn by example. We only have one tv in the livingroom and one in the garage so my husband can watch the Nascar race if he's working out there. That's all I want. My mom wouldn't allow it when we were growing up. My father, on the other hand, has been overweight for years (along with my stepmother). They don't cook healthy meals at all, though they do try to exercise somewhat. They have about five tv's in the house and they had the nerve to yell at me about exercise and being overweight when I was younger. My dad's excuse? "It's okay to be overweight when you're 42". Uh, no, it's never OKAY. He has lost some weight and they make an effort to be healthy, but they eat so much bad stuff- and when we visit, there is so much food around all the time. My sister and I blow them away when we go there- going for bike rides, walks and using their weight bench.

Sorry to rattle on here. People who make bad choices frustrate me. I used to be one of them ten years ago. I am so much healthier and happier now than when I was overweight. When I lost the weight, I said "why didn't I do this sooner??" and I wanted to kick myself. Everyone could use a little education and alot less junk and fad diets.

Kristilyn1

02-09-2001, 03:44 PM

MrsReber:

Thanks for crediting me with offering inspiration--but I can do MUCH better when it comes to the amount of tv my family watches and the food we eat.

Reading these posts have really renewed my resolve.

Kristi

Don

02-09-2001, 05:32 PM

One thing that I don't think is getting the attention that it should is the busy schedules that many people keep. We are working entirely too many hours and are obsessing entirely too much about keeping up with the Joneses. Most people I know are so exhausted after work (often a 12-hour day) that they don't have the energy to cook or exercise. The TV and McDonalds suddenly seem much more attractive.

As for not feeling sympathy for people who eat at McDonalds or who smoke, I think we need to stop and think before we decide that human beings are not worth our time or investment. I hear this all the time about AIDS patients. "They must have been doing something or they wouldn't be sick." I often wonder how many of these people realize the number of people, especially women, who were infected by an unfaithful partner through no fault of their own. You never really know the circumstances of how someone became sick with AIDS, or addicted to cigarettes, or obsessed with McDonalds. Very often we would be just like them had we had encountered the same circumstances in life. It's just too easy to assume how someone's condition or bad habit developed. A little compassion goes a long way.

Grace

02-10-2001, 12:31 PM

Oh Don, I think I understand what you are saying, but I sooo disagree (respectfully). Getting AIDS or HIV is not the same at all to me as smoking cigarettes or eating at McDonalds. The diseases that smoking and eating poorly cause can't be gotten by smoking one cigarette (or even one pack), or by eating at McDonald's once. One can certainly contract AIDS from just one sexual encounter with an infected person, or a blood transfusion, or as you point out, by someone who has an unfaithful partner. Those are completely different circumstances in my mind.

No, one has to smoke for a relatively long time, or be sedentary for many years, and eat lots of McDonalds for them to wind up in a hospital with diabetes or heart disease or stroke, or to become really obese. I realize we all aren't always raised under the best of circumstances (believe me, I know that PERSONALLY!! http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif ), but once you become an adult, I think the onus is on the individual to educate themselves, and to take responsibility for their own choices, despite how they may have been raised. In this country, with all the free information, programs everywhere you look, many of them free or low cost, there really is no excuse in my mind for remaining ignorant. I mean, someone who is obese or very sick had to be told at least by their doctor at some point to excercise and choose a healthier diet. Yet SOOO many people choose to ignore it. I know so many diabetics who eat whatever they want, and then just go give themselves a shot of insulin, and they think this is fine. Like I said, for the most part, it's laziness, and people just don't care. That's not at all how I feel about people with HIV or AIDS. Comparing apples to oranges, in my opinion.

I DO agree, though, about the fact that people in this country are just too busy. We work way too much, and put making money as a higher priority than anything else. In Europe, where the STANDARD workweek is 37-1/2 hours, and STANDARD vacation is 6 weeks, they laugh at us here. The stores there are close at 6 p.m. every evening, and all day Sunday (although that's slowly changing now....too bad). People live at a MUCH slower pace there, they get together with their friends and family ALL the time, they go walking as families ALL the time, they ride their bikes or walk everywhere, to me, their quality of life is sooo much better. They see America as like the land of Oz or something, but really, they are much smarter, I think. But my husband and I have chosen to try and adopt a similar lifestyle here. We absolutely flat out refuse to work more than a regular day (no staying late or weekends), we both have jobs that are close to home (some of my friends commute 2 to 3 hours a DAY!), we eat dinner at home at the table together, most nights, and we have had to say no to so many invitations and activities that we'd normally say yes to, just because we were so harried. We're much happier now. That's not to say that everyone should do what we do, but just that there ARE options and alternatives. There is no law that says you HAVE to work 12 hour days, run around and eat fast food because you have no time to cook, etc. That is also a choice in my opinion (barring extreme circumstances). So. Now I'll get off of my really BIG soap box, say that I hope I haven't offended anyone, and if anyone disagrees with me, I won't get offended at all. This is a great BB with great people, and I have total respect for each and every persons views and opinions. Just expressing mine here..... http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif

hhcowgirl

02-10-2001, 01:56 PM

Bravo, Grace!

emilycat

02-10-2001, 03:31 PM

I agree -- very well written, Grace! http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif

SusieO

02-10-2001, 05:29 PM

I think there are just too many excuses out there for not eating healthfully or exercising. My mother once explained to me that my sister couldn't help her weight problem as it was genetic. OK. Then explain to me why my brother and I are very thin (although one of us has to really work at it!), and why all of our cousins are very thin. It's just easier for her, as I'm sure it is for many people, to find a reason for being overweight that can't be fixed by eating right and exercising.

Don

02-10-2001, 10:07 PM

Hi Grace,

I have to say that a few years ago, I would have agreed with you. Now that I am working in the health field and deal with the real problems of every day people, I think it's far too easy to condemn rather than take the time to find out the entire situation of someone's life. My intention was not to compare a horrifying disease like AIDS to smoking or eating at McDonalds. The comparison that I was trying to draw (albeit, not very well) was that it's very easy to pass judgement when you don't have all of the facts of a person's life. I don't know what type of neighborhood that you live in, but I have dealt with a lot of people who do not have free nutrition classes or exercise classes in their neighborhoods. And even if they did, they wouldn't feel safe leaving the house at night to attend any such event. And what do you say to a single, working mother of three kids who tells you that the one or two nights a month at McDonalds is one of the few bits of happiness for her kids and the only place that is accessible and affordable so that she can take a night off kitchen duty. Similarly with smoking. Many smokers were hooked when they were very young. I don't know about your neighborhood, but you would be very hard pressed to find (if possible) a reduced cost or free smoking cessation class in a working or poor class neighborhood in this area. And if you did find the class, then you have the problems of getting transportation to the class or paying a babysitter while you're away from the home. Given that smoking is addictive, just like any other drug, it is not an easy habit to break, and the assistance out there, just as with drug addictions, does not even come close to meeting the need. That's not to say that I excuse everyone who doesn't take proper care of themselves. But I don't think it's a coincidence that it is the poorer classes of our society who are the biggest smokers and diners in fast food restaurants. And saying that you should educate yourself is fine if you have been educated. Unfortunately, there is a dearth of materials or programs aimed at low literacy populations. And don't even talk to me about the Internet. I have heard so many people say, "well, all they need to do is look it up on the Internet," as if everyone in the world has a PC and access to the Internet. Of course, even if they can get the Internet at a local library, they still need to read well enough and understand enough to find and use any available information. I don't think we give people a blank check. But I do think we have to take the time to listen if we are going to condemn people. Perhaps listening will enable us to figure out how to help people escape their demons. No one should be convicted without a hearing. http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif

Grace

02-11-2001, 12:11 PM

Very nicely put, Don. Definitely a different perspective, and it's something I will think about. I would like to add though, that I come from a poor family (my mom raised 4 of us on $9,000 a year salary by herself), but I didn't grow up in a poor neighborhood, so I would agree that that would have an effect on how I look at things. I also don't want to "condemn" anyone, and by no means do I believe that people who don't take care of themselves are not worth any time or investment, but on the same hand, I don't like the idea of poor people as "victims", and that they have no control over their destinies or surroundings or actions. I would be happy to invest my time and my energy helping anyone who wants it - the frustrating thing to me is that many people simply DON'T want it. Like I said, the countless people who are not poor, go to the doctor regularly, and have plenty of money to join a health club, are some of the most obese people there are, and care the least about their own health.

My parents/grandparents came from Germany after the war. During the war, my grandfather was imprisoned in a work camp because he was a Baptist minister who spoke out against the Nazis from the pulpit. He was lost from my grandmother and father and uncle for 3 years. During those three years, my grandmother narrowly escaped a Russian invasion (and occupation) of the town in East Prussia where they lived. She lived in strangers' homes, they stood in soup lines with one tin cup that they owned and had to refill three times (once for each my gma, dad and uncle), and basically "wandered" until after the war, when they eventually found my grandfather and were reunited. They emigrated to this country in 1951, and had NOTHING. I mean nothing. My grandmother, while college educated, worked in a factory for 25 years to pay the bills. My grandfather, who had contracted Typhoid fever in the work camp, and was permanently disabled, could only work menial office boy type jobs that paid very, very little, so he was of little help. I didn't grow up though thinking, "Oh, poor us ..... we're so poor", and my grandparents were basically alone in the world. They had no family whatsoever to help them (just the church), and it was do or die. I have always had a positive message from them, though. They never complained, and I got my love of food from them. We'd go to a farmer's market, or just the grocery store, and my grandmother would be in heaven. She just felt soooo lucky and sooo rich being able to buy the little she could buy.

So, while I agree that I don't have any idea what it's like to grow up in a "poor" neighborhood, I also don't think it's fair to insinuate that I must have grown up "rich", and that's why I'm educated or have a sense of personal responsibility (I paid for my own college education, thank you very much!).

But I will give consideration to what you've written. I don't want to be closed minded or compassionless. And by no means do I think I am condemning people, or "convicting" them. Just saying that I am frustrated with the lack of personal responsibility in this country (and that stretches beyond just poor eating/health habits!) I guess I'm just an optimist, and believe that a person can do anything if they really want to. I am living proof of that. I won't go into my story, but as I mentioned, I didn't grow up with money at all, and now I really have everything I thought I'd never have, all on my own. I didn't have parents to help me financially, or even support me emotionally, necessarily. But I'm happier than I ever thought I would be, and I have a real sense of accomplishment, pride and confidence that I'll always be able to take care of myself if I had to. I guess I just believe that if I can do it, anyone can. I believe that I'm no better than any other person out there (poor, or otherwise). I'm no special genius, and all the cards weren't stacked in my favor either, but persistence and hard work always pays off. I really don't think anyone in this country needs to feel like there is no hope. There is no other country in the world that has as much opportunity as this country has, it just takes a little fortitude to take advantage of those opportunities.

Oh well, looks like I've gone on again, but I appreciate your response Don, and like I said, I will think about it. I have volunteered at a homeless shelter (my brother has been a homeless person for 16 years on the west coast somewhere, so I have always felt especially compassionate for homeless people), but maybe I will consider volunteering in a poor neighborhood to help kids or single mothers or something. Thank you for presenting your perspective on the whole thing, it's given me good food for thought!

[This message has been edited by Grace (edited 02-11-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Grace (edited 02-11-2001).]

hhcowgirl

02-11-2001, 01:49 PM

Don,
I must respectfully, but wholeheartedly, disagree with you. It does not cost a thing to watch one's intake of food and attempt to reap the benefits of moderate exercise. I think one would be hard-pressed to find anyone out there who is not aware of the benefits of these beneficial and much-hyped practices. I also think, in response to your "single-mother-at-McDonald's" illustration, that one or two nights a week at a fast-food place with one's children is not enough to render one obese; it is the overall mentality/lack of initiative that these individuals have that deals them their fate. I, for one, probably do live in "that kind of neighborhood" to which you refer, the kind with access to all kinds of information and programs, etc. but I still cannot comprehend how one's socio-economic status can be used as an excuse for laziness.

MPHenderson

02-11-2001, 04:03 PM

Thank you, Don, for your comments. I would like to add a bit. As a former smoker, I don't absolve myself completely of becoming an addict; however, I do give a larger share of the blame to the tobacco producers and the government that allow this deadly and addictive drug to continue being marketed.

I started smoking at a young age. I would not hold anyone responsible for a decision made in their teen years. I became addicted to cigarettes as a teen.

I was able to quit (after three tries) 10 years ago, largely through tremendous support from my husband. Quitting was the most difficult thing I ever did. It was physically, emotionally and mentally painful. I would have given anything to have some sort of support group during the first few years.

The changes to my life during the quitting process were unusual and significant. One minor example: prior to quitting, I was an avid and very fast reader. It was not uncommon for me to finish a large novel in a day. When I quit smoking, I could no longer read...I had the cognitive ability, but I couldn't concentrate anymore. It was two years before I read a book. And then I could only read in the bath (didn't associate it with smoking). Ten years later, I am just beginning to read again.

I am sorry to go on for so long, but I do think we have to be careful about blaming people for making poor choices that are hard to change.

I think there is a connection between weight and early poor choices/options early in life. We all know that it's very hard to lose weight and keep it off...the body is not designed to lose weight. Moreover, many things that are marketed as weightloss tools are really keeping the weight on (for example, transfat in lowfat crackers or aspartame in diet soda).

So, I can only say "there but for the grace of God go I" when I see an overweight smoker...because I used to be both.

Originally posted by Don:
You never really know the circumstances of how someone became sick with AIDS, or addicted to cigarettes, or obsessed with McDonalds. Very often we would be just like them had we had encountered the same circumstances in life. It's just too easy to assume how someone's condition or bad habit developed. A little compassion goes a long way. [/B]

Jen

02-11-2001, 04:35 PM

I've been following this topic but have been reluctant to join in, but I do agree with much of what Don said. I had a very nice middle class upbringing and never for a second would I claim to understand the difficulties or hardships of being "poor". I'm university-educated in science and work with people of similar or higher academic background, and I'm constantly amazed by the lack of knowledge that even these people have about nutrition and health. None of the people I work with are stupid by any means, but some people just haven't picked up on the basic message - "eat better, exercise more". One woman - beautiful, smart, generally knowledgeable about current events, etc. - has been on every diet known to man, each time losing five pounds and gaining seven back. She'll say "oh, I'm trying to lose weight this week" so she'll bring a salad for lunch - but drown it in several tablespoons of "light" salad dressing (from a bottle). Even the light dressings are full of fat and preservatives - she's probably adding 10g of fat to her salad right off the bat! Not to mention that her lunch contains no protein or grain products. Several other people at work have been on the "high protein, low carbohydrate" diet several times. I'm just in shock that people with so much education (in Science even!) can be so dumb when it comes to eating right. So I think for a single mom with three kids, working two jobs, living in a lousy area, having the time/energy/financial resources to (a) read a paper or magazine and learn about nutrition, then (b) shop for healthful foods and (c) actually cook a healthy meal at the end of the day would be next to impossible. Not impossible, but next to. When you're worried about your job, kids, how you're going to pay your rent, and when you're going to be able to get some sleep, I think the dangers of the McD's cheeseburgers you're feeding to your family pale in comparison.

The other issue is that all of us here are interested in food - obviously, since we spend so much time here! We have chosen to make food a priority in our lives since we enjoy it, and we don't mind putting aside the time for it. Lots of people would rather be doing other things and really aren't that interested in food in general - they just want to eat for sustenance and get it over with. I'm not saying that that's an excuse for unhealthy eating, or being obese, or whatever, but we should remember that eating just isn't a priority for many people. One last thing...I know all this stuff about nutrition, and try to eat healthy and exercise, and I'm STILL overweight!! (I've lost 30 pounds but have about 20 more to go). If it's hard for me (and many of us here) imagine how hard it is for people who are starting with absolutely no knowledge of healthy eating at all! I think Don's main point is that we should avoid judging others without knowing their individual situations...and I think that's a good rule of thumb for life in general!

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest...hope I haven't offended anyone!

Jen

food girl

02-11-2001, 09:13 PM

It sounds like we all agree that there are problems that are new to our culture that make eating healthy and exercising difficult for all of us, and possibly harder for those w/ low education. What can WE do?

I really try my darndest to educate people in my job, not just my patients, but my co-workers. I have given my entire lunch to a coworker who wanted to see what "healthy" food tasted like. I ate her chik-fil- a YUCK.
Want to see some majorly obese people? Look at the staff in the hospital!

Since I work at a cancer center I am all to aware of the dangers of smoking. I talk to those kids you see smoking outside of the mall! They all think that they will quit smoking when they are 20 and their bodies won't suffer. I really think the tobacco companies have circulated some literature to this effect as often as I hear it. I encourage them to think about quitting, and for gosh sakes, not to encourage their non-smoking friends to start. Most kids are really nice and appropriatly grossed out when I tell them about my patients that don't have tongues, or the roof of their mouth because of cancer.

Today while I was riding my bike I was thinking of why we all feel that we need to indulge ourselves? I indulge myself as a 'reward' after a hard bike ride, and if I have had a bad day, or if friends invite us over...when I start to think about it I INDULGE every other day. I think people of all socioeconomic levels do this. That may be the McDonalds 'treat' someone refered to earlier. I don't think our grandparents were into self-gratification as much as we are now.

Just my little mind...off wandering..

Lisa

Kristilyn1

02-12-2001, 09:36 AM

This has been a great thread!

While I respect Don's opinion as well--and think that certainly, for some--it is true that they lack the resources to understand the complexities of food and weight--I do think these people are by far the minority. Having lived for several years in a "housing project" being raised by a single mom--I will tell you that trips to McDonalds were too expensive to be accomplished often. I know poverty--and have lived amongst poverty. I think it is more of an apathy towards life in general that is more at fault here than a lack of funds or understanding. Is this apathy due to poverty? Maybe, I think that question is much more likely to have an individual answer that is more complex. I'm also a reformed smoker and I'm sorry--if you started smoking after say 1978--then I really don't think you have any excuse to not understand the health risks--you "fall for" the advertising of a product that says right on it that it causes cancer? C'mon! If we can't understand a message put so simply--I despair that we will continue to get larger and larger as a nation until people start dying of obesity in the kind of numbers of an epidemic in a third world country! I quit several years ago and I simply stopped. I say simply, but of course it was incredibly hard. I think that most people who indulge in multiple bad habits--do so because they just don't care. That of course is an opinion that can only be based on my own experience--but the fact that some people can rise above their circumstances--prove that it can be done. I feel sorry for people that don't care enough about themselves to take care of themselves--I don't think they deserve my scorn--but I do believe that they are worthy of my expectations of them--as soon as they believe THEMSELVES worthy--they will change and not a minute before.

Kristi

Maelynn Cheung

02-12-2001, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by McSix:
I blame the system, too, however, because the kids have pop and candy machines and a snack bar that sells junk as alternatives to the school lunch program. Our school has started an afterschool program to teach children to make healthy snacks--it usually has three or four out of 900 kinds participating. I wish I knew what the answer was!

Just FYI - For those of you interested in helping your local schools' administrators, educators, and dietitians get more involved with getting the kids more excited about being fit and healthy, eating better foods, etc., check out Cooking Light's non-profit efforts from around the country at www.HealthyKidsChallenge.com (http://www.HealthyKidsChallenge.com)

mandarin2j

02-12-2001, 05:45 PM

I've been thinking about what a lot of posters have been saying about "no excuses," and I have to agree with Don. I think that a more "there but for the grace of God go I" attitude might be more helpful when it comes to considering people who are overweight. There are probably thousands (if not millions) of intelligent, well-informed people who are overweight. A recent study stated that diet success or failure is not wholly dependent on the dieter's will power, so it's not as though everyone who fails does so because they're lazy.

I think there are multiple factors at play-and maybe the only flaw in Don's argument is that he brings up poverty and (often) attendant ignorance as a cause for obesity, which brought up postings from people who could say "yeah, we were poor, but I'm not fat, so those other people who are poor and fat have no excuse." (That's what I'm hearing, at least, and I'm sorry if that's not what you mean by that) His point, that people standing on the outside have very little way of knowing what causes an individual to be fat, is a very good one.

I think part of the problem is the societal emphasis on appearance. While I think that emphasis is shifting toward a stronger emphasis on total physical well being, there is a real looks-oriented emphasis on why one should eat right and exercise. If you already look "right," then there's less motivation to eat right and exercise. To get anecdotal, the other day I was telling a friend that my hairdresser was doing "Body for Life." My friend responded that "she looks great-why is she on a diet and workout kick?" Eating right and exercise are not universally seen as an end unto themselves. They are the means toward achieving that end (the "perfect" body).

Many people (myself at age 18 included) think-"Hey, I'm already there, cool. I must be one of those people who can eat whatever they want!" Guess what? I was thin at age 18 because my mom was a big fan of fish, veggies, and complex carbohydrates, and I ran 6 miles a day as a member of my school's track and cross country teams. Seems intuitive that one would see the connection, but I really thought I could eat whatever I wanted, not exercise, and remain thin. Add to that the fact that junk food was absolutely banned from our household and I couldn't wait to be on my own and really eat whatever I wanted.(*interesting quote from a recent article on this as a postscript) For 2 years (one of them spent working at a French bakery-trouble!) my "I can eat whatever I want" theory held water. Must've been my muscle mass doing the work. Then the weight gain began. Not much, just 5 pounds a year. When I turned 25, it became absolutely horrifying. So then came the cycle of crash diet, weight loss, and subsequent weight gain with interest (as I like to call it). And always in the back of my mind with every diet was "when I'm done with this diet, I'm gonna have (fill in the blank) dream meal." Kind of like that guy featured in Cooking Light recently.

What it really took for me was being scared that I wouldn't be fit enough to continue to enjoy the activities I love, like hiking and cycling, in 10 years because I'd be too fat to do them without significant joint pain. So now I've made a priority of moving around in some way every day, drinking at least my minimum daily intake of water, eating at least my minimum daily intake of fruits and veggies, and limiting desserts and fatty meals to the weekends. There's other stuff, too, like no fast food, but you get the gist. Because of the crummy way I've been eating over the past 11 years, it is REALLY difficult to change those habits. The hardest part, though, is giving in to the idea that I will not see results in my appearance for a long time. When you're dieting (and I'm kind of an expert there), measurable results are what inspire me to keep going. And plateaus are what drive me to give up.

Anyway, sorry to be so long-winded. I think most overweight people are terrified of poor health, but all the effort in the world is wasted until one finds what really motivates one to become healthier. Fat people are often accused of thinking there's just some magical prescription out there for weight loss, but after reading the above postings, I think fat people aren't the only ones who can oversimplify (I hope that doesn't come off as snippy-I just mean that the "it's the diet and exercise, dummy" attitude is not exactly helpful. http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif ).

-Amanda

*In yesterday's newspaper commentary section, Geneva Overholser wrote about how banning junk foods in one's home altogether can cause kids to go overboard once they are old enough to do whatever they want. A quote from her piece:
"Take a recent 'Personal Health' column in The New York Times, in which Jane Brody tells us that parental control efforts will only backfire.
The child, writes Brody, 'will covet the very foods her mother forbade or used as bribes, and she may reject the more nutritious fare her mother tried to force her to eat.' In the words of Penn State's Dr. Leann Birch, 'Restricting access to palatable snack foods prompts kids to overeat those foods.'"
Hmm. Food for thought.

MrsReber

02-12-2001, 11:45 PM

Wow, this thread is getting really deep. I think everyone has made some good points. I was very overweight at one point. I didn't realize how easy it was to lose those pounds until I stopped making excuses and decided to exercise and eat right. The problem is that everyone is looking for a quick fix to their weight problems. It doesn't exist in this world. I just saw something last night about pantyhose that are supposed to reduce cellulite. Yeah, okay, but somebody out there is going to make a ton of money. So I can see that some folks who maybe can't read or speak english well just simply don't know that there is help out there, but also, alot of these people aren't looking for help.

And the exercise equipment they market? Guaranteed firm abs? I think not unless you include a cardio workout and change your eating habits. But people fall for this all the time and want to know why they don't look like the model who promotes such a product.

My mother drives me crazy with this. She has been thin most of her life, but now that she is in her 50's, she has gained weight and can't seem to take it off. I have told her at least 100 times "eat right and exercise" yet she continues to go on diets and tell me she has no time to exercise. Come on!! I get home later than she does, I am six months pregnant, and I STILL get myself to the gym. I lost 20 pounds while I was working a horrible, demanding job (about 65 hours a week) because I still knew that eating right and exercising were important. And yes, we do have choices. I quit that job because I was sick of the stress and the hours. I run into so many people who just don't understand that they have all the power- they are in charge of their own lives, not someone else- not McDonalds, the tobacco industry, and not their employer. They have the power to push the dish away when they've had enough or to choose to eat a peice of fruit instead of 10 cookies (though I'd much prefer the cookies!!) http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by MrsReber (edited 02-12-2001).]

Kristilyn1

02-13-2001, 07:52 AM

In response to Amanda's newspaper quote--just because it's in print, doesn't make it true.

I know that it seems mean to not feel sorry for people but feeling sorry doesn't help anybody. I think I understand pretty well the complexities behind people's reasons for being overweight, but my comments were directed toward the theory that people who are poor don't understand or don't have access to the information about weight and weight loss. Feeling sorry for people is not going to decrease the incidence of children with diabetes or people who's quality of life is like that of a sick 85 year old man--because of poor health. Personally--I think deigning to "pity" someone actually is telling them that they are not worthy of anything else. Please, I hope that does not offend anyone--but I honestly believe that. Before I get labeled as some harsh unforgiving person--keep in mind that I have volunteered as a Big Sister, I'm involved with the United Way, I raised $4,000 for the Leukemia Society, and I try to channel my energies into solutions for society's problems. I have a full time job and two small children, but I make the time. I should probably do more, I know I don't do enough to qualify for sainthood anytime soon--but I at least didn't want to come off as someone who only thinks about herself. I care--but I like to think I care enough to believe that anyone can do what I do.

Kristi

pammy

02-13-2001, 08:38 AM

Wow, I have been watching this thread as it has evolved into a really interesting discussion of the socio-economic factors that impact the health of Americans. Another factor that has been touched upon which I think bears emphasizing, many people have access to information about how to live a healthy lifestyle. In order to be motiviated to change bad habits, a person must feel that they as a person are worth the effort. If someone cannot show the person that the struggle to quit smoking, eat better and exercise is going to impact their lives in a positive way, why bother? And why bother if you feel that you are worthless or powerless? I am not proposing this as an excuse or explaination for people to be unhealthy. I put it out there as kind of a companion to Food Girl's assertion that, o.k. we have identified a problem, now what are we going to do about it? I think that many of us know people who are unhealthy. We can mentor and support these people in a way to help them realize that it is worth the effort and they deserve to feel the way we do about ourselves. No easy task, but if we are going to take the time and energy to discuss the problem, take action, even in some small way, to impact a person who may need some help.

hippiecups

02-13-2001, 10:46 AM

Thanks Don for saying all this. I definitely think we need to try to change our society. However, we don't ever know another person's individual circumstances so I don't think it does any good to go on about what "those" people do. By many people's standards, I could be seen as one of "those" people.
So I should start changing one person today - myself. I can have a positive infuence on those in my family (I have a spouse & a 5 yr old), but I can't control them. I'm lucky if I can control myself sometimes!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Don:
[B]Hi Grace,

I have to say that a few years ago, I would have agreed with you. Now that I am working in the health field and deal with the real problems of every day people, I think it's far too easy to condemn rather than take the time to find out the entire situation of someone's life.

MrsReber

02-13-2001, 12:16 PM

First of all, you cannot help someone who does not want to help themselves. You can present someone with the facts, but unless they want to make that change for themselves, you can forget about helping them. It will only frustrate you. I watched my ex-boyfriend's mother kill herself with tobacco and alcohol. She could barely breathe to walk to the bathroom, but somehow could walk half a mile to the store to buy cigarettes- and then lie about smoking them. She had asthma, emphyasema, a heart attack and could no longer work due to her condition. Think she stopped smoking? My best friend's brother died at the age of 35 from lung cancer. This just doesn't stop others. That makes me sick. On my first date with my husband, he was smoking. I told him outright "the cigarettes have to go". And he quit over three years ago! By the way, Kristi, he didn't smoke that much either so it was probably easier for him to quit! There's some fuel for your sister!

I am a prime example, though, of weight loss. I had to do it in my own time and for myself. It took me a long time to decide to become healthy through eating right and exercising. But I had to make that decision and seek out the information. The people who shoved it in my face seemed annoying to me. My family who always had to ask "how are you doing with your weight?" like my weight was more important than anything else in my life. My step-mother (who has always been overweight) even told me when I was 13 that "boys won't flirt with you if you're overweight and people will like you better". So much for my self esteem. I probably never recovered emotionally, but I showed them all when I lost 35 pounds.

[This message has been edited by MrsReber (edited 02-13-2001).]

mandarin2j

02-13-2001, 01:04 PM

MrsReber-

I think you have a great point about quitting unhealthy habits--it really does have to come from within that person.

I nodded my head when you mentioned your ex-boyfriends mom, because my step grandmother was just like that. Had to quit work because of her smoking-related illnesses, but never quit smoking till the day she died. The woman was fairly young, too. I remember when my mom told me she was the same age as a favorite uncle from my dad's side of the family. I couldn't believe it because she looked so awful--smoking isn't just bad for your insides, but your skin and so on.

Kristy--I don't know what can help your sisters quit. Here are some strategies I brainstormed, but the taboo on talking about it makes your situation even more challenging!

Since talking about the health risks of smoking is verboten in your family, perhaps showing your sisters would work better. Making them weigh the pleasure of smoking against other pleasures might work. Maybe there's something your sisters really enjoy--like hiking, to draw from MY experience with weight http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif--that requires a lot of lung power. Or tennis, anyone? If smoking gets in the way of that thing, maybe it'll plant a seed in their minds. Do they have kids? Can they keep up with their kids if they have 'em? If they love great food, do they know that their sense of taste is diminished by smoking? All the wrinkle cream in the world won't stop cigarette smoking from prematurely aging one's skin--if they're appearance-oriented, maybe that's where you hit 'em (though, without being able to say something, I'm not sure how...). One thing you can do is refuse to compromise your own health by being around them when they indulge. You can insist on going to non-smoking only restaurants when you get together, 'cause smoke doesn't know to stay in the smoking section and second-hand smoke kills (besides making your hair and clothing absolutely reek!).

Good luck! http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by mandarin2j (edited 02-13-2001).]

m4star

02-13-2001, 02:02 PM

I am new to this bulletin board and I must APPLAUD you all for this thread. It shows some real thought/concern/knowledge about a topic that touches us all.

As a dietician and personal trainer, I can totally understand (and have seen) both sides of this issue. There is no easy answer, but I offer my opinion up to the group. The overall quality of health of Americans is deteriorating, that is indesputeable. The number of children battling obesity it also steadily rising. At this rate America will have some MAJOR health issues to battle in the very near future that are directly related to diet/exercise/lifestyle choices.

When I began studying diet and kinesiology the one thing that shocked me most was that a large majority of Americans (and I'm talking about 20+ year olds in college) DO NOT KNOW even the most basic elements of science as they apply to keeping yourself fit and healthy. The scam diet industry are proof that people are "in the dark" about what it takes to live a healthy lifestyle. Physical education and nutrition are no longer taught in most public schools, and we have witnessed the "knowledge" mass media has been spouting about diet and exercise via t.v./newspapers/magazines. This points to one thing, the future will be very open for people like you (like me) to step up to the challenge of teaching/sharing/helping those around us (families/friends/neighbors/co-workers/etc) how to become more aware of their bodies and what we are putting in them.

thanks for letting me voice my 2 cents!

m4star

02-13-2001, 02:04 PM

I am new to this bulletin board and I must APPLAUD you all for this thread. It shows some real thought/concern/knowledge about a topic that touches us all.

As a dietician and personal trainer, I can totally understand (and have seen) both sides of this issue. There is no easy answer, but I offer my opinion up to the group. The overall quality of health of Americans is deteriorating, that is indesputeable. The number of children battling obesity it also steadily rising. At this rate America will have some MAJOR health issues to battle in the very near future that are directly related to diet/exercise/lifestyle choices.

When I began studying diet and kinesiology the one thing that shocked me most was that a large majority of Americans (and I'm talking about 20+ year olds in college) DO NOT KNOW even the most basic elements of science as they apply to keeping yourself fit and healthy. The scam diet industry is proof that people are "in the dark" about what it takes to live a healthy lifestyle. Physical education and nutrition are no longer taught in most public schools, and we have witnessed the "knowledge" mass media has been spouting about diet and exercise via t.v./newspapers/magazines. This points to one thing, the future will be very open for people like you (like me) to step up to the challenge of teaching/sharing/helping those around us (families/friends/neighbors/co-workers/etc) how to become more aware of their bodies and what we are putting in them.

thanks for letting me voice my 2 cents!

mandarin2j

02-13-2001, 11:27 PM

In response to Kristi's comment:
[quote] I know that it seems mean to not feel sorry for people but feeling sorry doesn't help anybody.

I certainly wasn't advocating that people pity overweight people. Heck, pity is just a way of judging and then giving up on people, IMHO. What I was saying is that people shouldn't judge others based on their own experiences. What works (in terms of healthy living) for one person may make things worse for another person. How? Well, people are different. For instance, some folks (like my mom) thrive on things like the weekly check-ins with Weight Watchers. She feels the check-ins keep her in line. For me, the check-ins were a palpable reminder that, even as I lost, I was way heavier than I ever should have allowed myself to get. It was too difficult for me to put a positive spin on 160 pounds--even when that meant a loss of 40 pounds--because the idea of weighting 160 pounds used to be horrifying to me when I weighed 115.

In some ways, facing one's weight-related health problems is a lot like facing alcoholism. Not to make excuses at all, but I think one has to go through some of the same processes to make real change. You have to really believe that there is a problem, that the way you're living is hurting you. You have to forget about beating yourself up for getting fat, because beating yourself up is self-defeating. It doesn't matter so much how you got fat, except as a lesson of what NOT to do in the future. What you have to focus on is what you can do every day to be a healthier person--a lot like how recovering alcoholics focus on being sober every day. And you have to remind yourself that those other attempts at change--and failure--were, what? Practice? I don't know. But you have to allow yourself a fresh start without judging your other attempts. Otherwise, you just feel doomed, and then why bother?

Yes, it's scary how obese Americans are. But wagging fingers at everyone isn't a bit more helpful than feeling sorry for them. What are constructive ways to work toward a healthier society? How about advocating for healthier foods in school and workplace lunch rooms? I know at my workplace, we have one healthy option in our vending machines--mixed raw veggies with dip (and that ain't low-cal dip, sports fans! http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/wink.gif ). We can reward restaurants that serve actual single-sized portions with our patronage. Sit in at school board meetings and let them know that, as a taxpayer, you find PE a valuable tool in maintaining childrens' health and you won't stand for cuts. Advocate for nutrition-related curriculum in schools. Heck, regional government officials have told me that kids were really the ones responsible for educating the community about curbside recycling. They brought those lessons home from school with them and shared them with their families. Maybe the same thing can be achieved with nutrition.

But, if you really care about the state of physical health in this country, don't give up on people. People need to keep hearing about the benefits of good nutrition and exercise, if for no other reason to shout above the din of quickie solutions to lifestyle problems. People don't need judgment, or pity, but they could use some support.

Ugh, sorry to drone on again. I just think we could move this debate in a more constructive direction, because you all appear to be knowledgeable about healthy living, and have a lot to share about how to get us all there. http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif

Kristilyn1

02-13-2001, 11:56 PM

Of course mandarin2j--you have some excellent points. But I do have to say that it is absolutely impossible to NOT base our opinions on our own experiences. Otherwise we have no basis for ANY opinion be it judgemental or compassionate. Our own experiences make us experts--on our own opinions. http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif

As far as this thread goes, I think we may disagree on the ways to help society with it's weight problem, but we all want to help. I have found it extremely thought provoking and stimulating to read these exchanges of views without shouting, name calling and hysteria. I'd like to hear more dissenting opinions--it may not change my mind, but it will make me think....When I talk about feeling sorry for someone--I mean in the way that (IMO) which is the basis for a LOT of social service approaches to different ills--is to say "oh these poor people don't KNOW any better" and proceed to make decisions for them. When you decide that someone lacks the brains to change their lifestyle--you have completely discounted them as a valuable person. (But I do believe, I am beating a dead horse there...sorry!) I think that smoking is an excellent example of how we ALL have the facts regarding what it does to you--yet sooooo many people smoke--I'd love to hear some opinions on here as to why they think this is true. All 3 of my sisters smoke and get absolutely BELLIGERENT if I make any comments whatsoever about smoking, no matter how innocent. I have actually almost got into a physical confrontation with my youngest sister because she had started this monologue on how she hardly ever smokes (trust me, I NEVER start smoking discussions in my family--it creates a WAR) and I said "well, since you brought it up, if you hardly ever smoke, why not quit?" and it went nuts from there. We basically had to end it with--if you don't want to hear MY opinions on smoking--don't bring up YOURS.

Any thoughts out there on that?

Kristi