Christmas/Discipline Dilemma

[little_bopeep]

I'm having big, BIG problems with DS4 (age 12). He's my bipolar/ADHD/Oppositional Defiant Disorder kid. He's become very disruptive at school and at home, and he's just becoming a total PITA. I love him and we're in all kinds of counseling (getting every service available to us) , but we're just spinning our wheels.

Anyway, I'm just so torn about Christmas. People have been telling me that I should skip his presents this year because that would just be rewarding bad behavior. I see the validity in that way of thinking, absolutely....but wouldn't doing that at Christmas just kinda defeat the whole spirit of sharing and showing love for other people? Obviously, we're going big on the Christmas story and the right things to do and processing all of this.

What would you do?

[tbb113]

Susan - unless you had told him earlier that getting presents was tied into his behavior...I would give him his presents. I think he needs to be told what consequences are attached to his behavior beforehand not afterwards.

If you are really feeling conflicted, I would speak with his counselor and see what they say.

[Chefzhat]

Susan, leave Christmas out of it. And ignore people who are telling you how to work with your son, who obviously has challenges that will not be addressed by reactive discipline. Give that child his gifts and have a normal day with him.

I don't know about how to discipline him, but discipline works best when it is tied to a specific offense.

Hugs, kiddo. I wish I could help you.

Debie

[jellyben]

My son also has issues-ADHD, depression, anxiety, ans lots of behavioral issues-and we struggle so much with him(he just told DS(6) and DD(4) that Santa doesn't exist). But I couldn't imagine withholding his Christmas gifts. In his case, his psychiatrist and counselor think so much of his behavior toward others is caused by lack of self esteem, and to punish him while his siblings are enjoying the holiday seems wrong and completely ineffective. I think to punish a kid that already must feel so different would just reinforce their feeling that they aren't as good as others or as deserving. There are plenty of other opportunities to discipline, but I just don't think this is it.

Good luck to you! I certainly feel for you.

[eas11]

So sorry :(
Either decide to let Christmas be "exempt", or talk to the team you're working with and develop a holiday strategy.
I don't know who told you to skip the presents, but I must say that no matter what the behavior, I would never tell my clients to skip them all together. I would come up with some attainable contingencies for him, maybe even a tiered gift option if you though he might work "extra" hard to control his impulses. Really, this is not run of the mill or typical behavior- you've already said he's been diagnosed with 3 disorders. Kids, and adults for that matter, don't "want" to be depressed, or manic, or oppositional....we're talking about brain dysfunction here- there are lots of things we try to do to help with the control, but he is not doing all of this intentionally!
Good luck and try to enjoy your holiday!

[little_bopeep]

I knew I had asked the right people! My heart told me that holding his gifts would be the wrong thing to do, but I was getting it from all sides. Thank you all for reminding me about reactive discipline doesn't work with kids like Rob, and that not all his misbehavior is willful. Y'all are the best!

[DmOrtega]

...I see the validity in that way of thinking, absolutely....but wouldn't doing that at Christmas just kinda defeat the whole spirit of sharing and showing love for other people? Obviously, we're going big on the Christmas story and the right things to do and processing all of this.

What would you do?

In one word "VOLUNTEER". Get involved with sharing yourselves, energy, talents, and time, with others. Do it as a family. Lead your ds by example while involving him. There are plenty of organizations that need help such as The Forgotten Childrens Fund, or camps that use riding therapy, your local animal shelter, for example. There is nothing more rewarding than helping others, even kids can help.

[kima]

I am so sorry you are having such troubles.

I can not imagine withholding Xmas presents from any child. The gifts themselves are not important but the expression of love that they represent (especially to anyone under the age of 18) is.

I imagine your son has alot of negative feelings about himself but he needs to know that no matter what, through thick and thin, his family loves him. I am a true believer than if every child feels they are unconditionally loved then there is always hope for change.


Hang in there- you sound like a super mother.

[sneezles]

Susan,
Sorry you're having difficulties with your son but I agree with everyone that unless he knew he'd be losing out on Christmas because of his behavior it would only cause more difficulties.

That said, I would also like to say that boys, in general, can be very difficult at this age (even without all the things your son has to deal with). It has to do with the body growing faster than the brain, I'm sure there's a better way to explain it but that's what it comes down to. We jokingly referred to this time as the boys being brain-dead...I experienced it 3 times!;) Things do improve once this major growth spurt/hormonal imbalance is over though!

[KimKelly]

Your son is so lucky to have you!

I am no where near an expert (accounting degree here!), but as a mom, I would not whithold his presents. My kids are 7 and 10, and for the past few years we have been trying really hard to show that Christmas is not all about receiveing (can you hear the endless "I want's!"). So this year in particular, I've made a point to shop for each other family member with each child. They thought about what they wanted to give Daddy, or their sibling and we shopped, hid it, and then wrapped it. They have really blossomed this year with the giving. Both are excited about what Christmas and how the other people will be excited about what they will get.

I don't know if that will help you at all, you may be way past that, but it was something that worked for us!
Best of luck to you,

Kim

[emptyspool]

I would agree with Sneezles. This is a very tough age for boys, even those without the diagnoses you have to deal with. I found the middle school years far more difficult than high school and found middle school teachers on the most part clueless as to the developmental challenges of this age.

The best thing I can say to you is to be his champion. Help him fight the battles.

Christmas to me is like grace. It's a gift, not something earned or given for merit, free of charge to those who don't deserve it.

Merry Christmas to you and your son.

[jmarie]

Christmas to me is like grace. It's a gift, not something earned or given for merit, free of charge to those who don't deserve it.

What a beautiful thought.....little_bopeep, I think this said it all.....

Joyce

[Canice]

One could claim that I'm supremely unqualified to respond, as I have no psychological training and no children. But what Kima said really reflected my own reaction:

....
I can not imagine withholding Xmas presents from any child. The gifts themselves are not important but the expression of love that they represent (especially to anyone under the age of 18) is.

I imagine your son has alot of negative feelings about himself but he needs to know that no matter what, through thick and thin, his family loves him. I am a true believer than if every child feels they are unconditionally loved then there is always hope for change.
....

I can't begin to guess what the perceived benefit is of someone reflecting on his childhood, thinking, "I was told I was unworthy of Christmas presents." :(

[newtricks]

What everyone else said. It makes me sad that anyone would think that taking away Christmas presents is a good idea. They represent love essentially, and our love for our kids is unconditional.

I love him and we're in all kinds of counseling (getting every service available to us) , but we're just spinning our wheels.


Parenting often feels like this doesn't it??:) I don't have a 12 year old yet but with all my kids we've hit points where the behavior felt intractable but we kept addressing it consistently and eventually, many grey hairs and glasses of wine later, things improved. It sounds like you're doing everything right so even though you feel like you're just spinning your wheels right now, you're probably making progress that you just can't see yet. And do 12 yr olds do that "it gets worse right before it gets better" thing still?

(((little bopeep)))

[ChristyMarie]

I'm sorry you're going through this but I think you've received some wonderful advice. Christmas is Christmas - relax and enjoy the day. Hopefully it will be a nice break for all of you.

(((Hugs)))

[cminmd]

I agree with the thought of letting Christmas be a day of amnesty. My son is in the dog house for sneaking in DS play time under his covers after bedtime. We took away the DS for the month, but will let him have his DS on Christmas day and play his new game his grandparents got for him, then we will take it away for the rest of the punishment time. And have him leave it upstairs at night for recharging!
I think this is a crazy time for kids that pulls out the bad behavior in them. All the drama and excitement gets them worked up and it comes out in the most annoying ways.

[FruitsAlive]

I agree with everyone...withholding presents on Christmas is just cruel. I don't think that discipline should be tied with any special occasion. I still remember Christmas Day when I was four years old. I asked my mom why my brother got a Mr.Goodbar in his stocking and I didn't. She replied, "He must have been better this year." If I was older, I probably would have laughed or rolled my eyes or something, but I was totally traumatized...over a freakin' candy bar.
I'm sending you and your family my good juju.

[Taeler]

Wow! I can't believe people would actually encourage someone to take away a kids Christmas presents - that's life scarring kinda stuff there!
One of my dear friends is an amazing mom to her 7yo boy who has almost identical problems. She is spinning her wheels just the same as you, so first of all let me tell you what I tell her: You are a great mom! You are doing a good job raising you children, especially when one or more of them have special needs. Keep up the OUTSTANDING work. And if you lose your patience once or twice over the next few days, don't beat yourself up, it's okay.
My friend did very well with keeping her son stable thru present opening this year (they were flown off to Dad's for Christmas day so she got early Christmas), but I would offer one thought: her son asked more than once if that was all I (and he had about 15 presents at least!) and she apologized and reminded him that it was a tight year. I know this is divorced mom guilt, but geez, "is that all"! As if! So don't let any possible guilt for his behavior or your reactions get the better of you! Your Christmas will be wonderful!

[DmOrtega]

...
My friend did very well with keeping her son stable thru present opening this year (they were flown off to Dad's for Christmas day so she got early Christmas), but I would offer one thought: her son asked more than once if that was all I (and he had about 15 presents at least!) and she apologized and reminded him that it was a tight year. I know this is divorced mom guilt, but geez, "is that all"! As if! So don't let any possible guilt for his behavior or your reactions get the better of you! Your Christmas will be wonderful!

This is exactly why I suggested to volunteer. Even kids can help and especially around the holidays, it helps to refocus. It's easier for kids to be thankful for what they have when they see what others don't have. It really does help.

[mgs]

I remember when I was about 12 I was pretty close to driving my mom insane. I snooped and found all my Christmas presents that year. She was ready to not give them to me, or not wrap them. But she didn't because, like you are thinking, it isn't really in the spirit of Christmas. Christmas is a day for happiness and - as others have put it - Grace. We talked about what I had done many times after Christmas, so much that I still feel guilty about it now at age 36!:p but Christmas was definitely exempt from punishment.

Try to have a happy holiday.

Christmas time is stressful enough with kids, sorry you are going through this. ((Hugs))

[Leslie Ferguson]

Two opening caveats: I'm not a parent and not a mental health expert (just ask my therapist).

But I can say having dealt with my wife's issues over the past 24+ years surrounding withholding Christmas as punishment the long term impact of withholding a holiday that is about love and peace (and presents) might have long term and unintended consequences. I think the focus on the Christmas story and what it means is a good thing.

Tough time to deal with kids who have issues but having just dealt with a bunch of kids with adjustment issues - withholding Christmas is probably not the best way to address the issues.

I hope you have a good holiday and things work out for the best.

Peace,
Les

[Valerie226]

Also a non parent here. our family did things on 4th of july that I hated & they made me do it every year. it was an unpleasant thing & it ruined the 4th for me. I still get a headache just hearing firecrackers 50 years later. I would not want to assign negative feelings,unpleasantness, and feelings of not being good enough to christmas for a 12 yr old. call it a "time out" from ongoing problems and deal with the issues some other day.