Hussein hanged...

[VictoriaL]

and NBC says that they will show no footage of the execution. Why not? Why be "choosy" now??? :rolleyes:

[little_bopeep]

This brings me to a question: If it had been televised, would you have watched? A part of me says that I would out of morbid curiosity and because it was definitely an historic event. But then common decency speaks up and asks how I can be that ghoulish. I'm torn...I'm not sure what I would actually have done.

How about you?

[blazedog]

I don't quite understand the reference to "choosy" as television broadcasters adhere (or attempt to adhere) to standards which would preclude showing executions of anyone -- various types of footage such as the Pearl beheading and others that were available on the internet weren't shown in their entirety by the national broadcasters.

I have zilch desire to view anyone being killed but there is a market for this type of morbid stuff. Years ago, there was a video called Faces of Death (which had a sequel) which showed various people and animals dying -- and of course there are snuff films which combine death and sex for those who really get their jollies that way.

[ADM]

[QUOTE=little_bopeep;1148133]would you have watched? A part of me says that I would out of morbid curiosity and because it was definitely an historic event./QUOTE]

Would watching it on television make it seem less real to you than being in the room when the hanging occurred? Although it is a moot point, would you choose to be actually in that room?

[little_bopeep]

Not sure what that has to do with my question, but no, I would not have chosen to be in the room. As for it being any less real on TV, well...no. Why should it? I wasn't asking if anyone would get their jollies from it (and no, I certainly wouldn't); I was asking if anyone would watch it. Period.

[TKay]

I don't know if I would have watched it live or not, but I must say, I do find myself saying, "Where are the pictures?" It's more like, "Where is the proof?" I guess it does have that train wreck effect for me. I don't really WANT to see it, but I feel compelled to look. I've seen the footage of the JFK assassination. I guess I would look at this too. (Not to, in any way, compare the two men.)
Interesting question.

[blazedog]

Not sure what that has to do with my question, but no, I would not have chosen to be in the room. As for it being any less real on TV, well...no. Why should it? I wasn't asking if anyone would get their jollies from it (and no, I certainly wouldn't); I was asking if anyone would watch it. Period.

I don't understand why you (or anyone) would want to watch someone being killed except for the prurient voyeuristic quality -- i.e. getting one's jollies off in the vernacular.

Admittedly I have a hard time watching "real" violence (as opposed to standard cartoon violence) on screen which is why watching a film like Flight 93 was very hard for me while something like Pirates of the Carribean wouldn't be since I might as well be watching Wily Coyote being blown up by another of his Acme contraptions.

I watch films like Schindler's List (again depicting death) because there is some moral or artistic purpose aside from viewing the actual killing scenes -- I couldn't imagine fast forwarding only to the morbid parts for example.

I personally don't have any interest at all in watching someone or something die however bad that person or thing was in real life.

[little_bopeep]

Oh, for heaven's sake. :rolleyes:

[Jalapeno]

Oh, for heaven's sake. :rolleyes:

LOL!

I would watch it. He got what he had coming to him and I feel absolutely no sympathy for him, for that matter I don't even think of him as human. So if someone on an internet forum who doesn't even know me thinks I'm getting my "jollies" off it.....whatever.:rolleyes:

[little_bopeep]

Well said. :cool:

[jmarie]

I was a bit puzzled by this part of thequestion/statement.
Why not? Why be "choosy" now???

Another question was asked:
If it had been televised, would you have watched?

I absolutely would not have watched, nor do I want to see any pictures. I will be content to take their word for it, that he is dead.

[MikeC]

I don't really understand what you mean by this:

Why not? Why be "choosy" now???

[blazedog]

LOL!

I would watch it. He got what he had coming to him and I feel absolutely no sympathy for him, for that matter I don't even think of him as human. So if someone on an internet forum who doesn't even know me thinks I'm getting my "jollies" off it.....whatever.:rolleyes:

Whether he deserved to be put to death, the nature of evil and the whole issue of capital punishment is really beside the point to me -- I just have no interest in watching the death of any living thing.

So it is permissible to watch the execution of Sadam but not Danny Pearl? Misguided though they might be, many viewed his (Pearl's) death as a morally justified deed.

Isn't that morally relativistic -- is there a sliding scale therefore in terms of when it becomes merely voyeuristic. Why not bring back public hangings for those judged evil enough to warrant it?

Personally, I see no purpose in watching anyone be killed but each to his or her own viewing habits.

[VictoriaL]

I asked why should NBC be "choosey" in what they air now because I'm disgusted by the type of crap all networks choose to televise. I didn't mean "the hanging" per say,I meant the questionable content in practically everything that they air from their programs to commercials.

[Gumbeaux]

Yeah, there's no reason to show the hanging on television when the video is all over the internet.

[MikeC]

OK, I understand now what you meant. But I'm not sure I would equate showing an actual hanging with "questionable content" on network TV.

[jmarie]

I asked why should NBC be "choosey" in what they air now because I'm disgusted by the type of crap all networks choose to televise. I didn't mean "the hanging" per say,I meant the questionable content in practically everything that they air from their programs to commercials.

Thank you for clarifying. I see what you mean now.

[Jalapeno]

Personally, I see no purpose in watching anyone be killed but each to his or her own viewing habits.

Exactly...you would choose not to watch it but I would choose to watch it. But to say that someone who chooses to watch it gets a rush or their jollies from it is a extremely presumptuous.

[tyroleancutie]

I watched the Video online but I had to turn it off half way through. I just felt like a bad person watching someone else getting killed.

And to be honest, I am afraid that I will have the same nightmares like I had two (three?!?) years ago when they showed how those iraqies cut the throat of american soldier on tv.

[Jalapeno]

I can't even find the actual hanging on-line. The only thing I find is them putting the nuse around his neck, then the footage goes to people dancing in the streets.

[Rhi-Anon]

But I'm not sure I would equate showing an actual hanging with "questionable content" on network TV.

Those types of televised events are not equal in my mind, but merely varying degrees of disgust/ distaste.

I still feel as though I must leave the room when my son (and his friends) are watching tv with me and a viagra or cilais commercial comes on. I remember how embarrassed I used to be in high school while watching the boob-tube with my parents and boyfriend and the screen showed a hazy shot of a woman, in long, flowing garments, walking slowly through the sand on a beach while the announcer would softly say "... because you're a woman. Kotex.". Now, the home theatre system booms out the announcer warning about having a four-hour-long erection... :rolleyes:

And about actually watching the hanging-- absolultely not.

[Farhana]

Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator alright but What Bush And U.S did in the name of justice was a joke. Bush killed even more people invading other countries, so did Sharon........ where is justice then? And the worst part is the day he was put to death was Eid-ul-adha and after his death his body was left to be dishonored. The president who was responsible for the masacre in Vietnam....... we didn't see him hang, did we?

America helped Iraq all those years when there was a war going on between Iraq and Iran, knowing very well he was a killer all along, Ramsfield even pictured shaking hands with him- with a big smile and then all on a sudden they realized he was a dictator?

What was done to him is unfair and doing it on Eid day only proves how disrespectful Bush and U.S is towards Muslims.

[Robyncz]

What was done to him is unfair and doing it on Eid day only proves how disrespectful Bush and U.S is towards Muslims.

While nobody will ever call me a Bush supporter or an apologist for the current administration, it is my understanding that Saddam's trial was held in an Iraqi court, the sentence came from an Iraqi judge, and the execution was scheduled by the Iraqi administration. None of these were direct actions by Bush or the Bush administration.

As uncomfortable as I am about the actual execution and about many of the actions Bush has taken in the middle east, I'm not sure it is accurate to blame the timing on him, much less the U.S. as a whole.

[sneezles]

Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator alright but What Bush And U.S did in the name of justice was a joke. Bush killed even more people invading other countries, so did Sharon........ where is justice then? And the worst part is the day he was put to death was Eid-ul-adha and after his death his body was left to be dishonored. The president who was responsible for the masacre in Vietnam....... we didn't see him hang, did we?

America helped Iraq all those years when there was a war going on between Iraq and Iran, knowing very well he was a killer all along, Ramsfield even pictured shaking hands with him- with a big smile and then all on a sudden they realized he was a dictator?

What was done to him is unfair and doing it on Eid day only proves how disrespectful Bush and U.S is towards Muslims.



Wow! I find it incredulous that you could even remotely think that this creature deserved any respect after all the killings, mass murders and disrepect he showed for the people of Iraq.

And which president would you have hanged for Vietman?:rolleyes:

As usual your posts speak loudly for who you really are!

[PAMMELA]

Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator alright but What Bush And U.S did in the name of justice was a joke. Bush killed even more people invading other countries, so did Sharon........ where is justice then? And the worst part is the day he was put to death was Eid-ul-adha and after his death his body was left to be dishonored. The president who was responsible for the masacre in Vietnam....... we didn't see him hang, did we?

America helped Iraq all those years when there was a war going on between Iraq and Iran, knowing very well he was a killer all along, Ramsfield even pictured shaking hands with him- with a big smile and then all on a sudden they realized he was a dictator?

What was done to him is unfair and doing it on Eid day only proves how disrespectful Bush and U.S is towards Muslims.


Ummm.....what?

[Farhana]

As usual your posts speak loudly for who you really are![/QUOTE]

And so does yours. Yes, everything was done in Iraq but under U.S orders, surrounded by U.S troops and their guns. Did you know that one Iraqi judge resigned because of political interference? I don't have any sympathy for him, he should've been tried long time ago not when America decided he is a dictator. President Yahia was on a killing spree too, killing 3 million people in 9 months, where was justice then? America didn't send it's troops to save them nor did condemn what was done. Now, don't ask which country I'm talking about:rolleyes:.

No one cares for Saddam but you can see the humanitarian groups are calling it an unfair trial, so did Russia, Malaysia and India among many other countries. I don't blame anybody failed to see the point, I can't make you see something that you have decided not to see. America is a bully, hated by people from around the world- thanks to it's evil presidents and apathetic citizens.

[sneezles]

I don't have any sympathy for him, he should've been tried long time ago not when America decided he is a dictator. President Yahia was on a killing spree too, killing 3 million people in 9 months, where was justice then? America didn't send it's troops to save them nor did condemn what was done. Now, don't ask which country I'm talking about:rolleyes:.


I don't blame anybody failed to see the point, I can't make you see something that you have decided not to see. America is a bully, hated by people from around the world- thanks to it's evil presidents and apathetic citizens.

Really because your previous post speaks loudly that you felt he was wrongly hanged!:confused:

I'm pretty sure you blamed America...you really have a way with words don't you! America, the bully? Who was it that attacked on 9/11? So we're to be called a bully for retailiation?

Evil presidents? Apathetic Citizens? Surely you must be confused!!!


And you live in the USA because... you can actually speak/write your opinion without fear of death??? amazing isn't it?... :confused:

[Julia1Pin]

Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator alright but What Bush And U.S did in the name of justice was a joke. Bush killed even more people invading other countries, so did Sharon........ where is justice then?
What was done to him is unfair and doing it on Eid day only proves how disrespectful Bush and U.S is towards Muslims.

Interesting how you keeping bring Israel into all your rants. Are you really equating Sharon with Saddam?????????

Robyncz had the best answer to the rest.

[little_bopeep]

America is a bully, hated by people from around the world- thanks to it's evil presidents and apathetic citizens.

I'm sure that there are any number of travel agents who would be more than happy to guide you to the other side of the world. Speaking strictly for myself, I'd really appreciate your not coming to this forum to say these things to me-- one of the apathetic citizens.

[Robyn1007]

Farhana, I find it very ironic that you come here and bash the politics and the citizens of the US yet you live here and benefit from the freedoms that centuries of soldiers, politicians, activists and citizens have fought for. I may not like our current administration but I certainly won't bash the citizens of this country. If you hate us so much then why are you here? :rolleyes:

[Grace]

Interesting how you keeping bring Israel into all your rants. Are you really equating Sharon with Saddam?????????

Robyncz had the best answer to the rest.

I totally noticed this too. :mad: :( So much hate.

I too have to wonder if you hate Bush so much, and hate Israel and hate everyone (it seems), why not go somewhere you actually like and whose government you respect and believe in? :confused:

[ClaraB]

America is a bully, hated by people from around the world- thanks to it's evil presidents and apathetic citizens.Well, one of the great freedoms America offers is that anyone is free to leave it without fear of reprisals against either themselves or their families. By all means, make use of this freedom :rolleyes: .

If you hate America so much, why on earth do you stay :confused: ? Is it the money that keeps you here, or do you have a more sinister motive? Sometimes I really wonder...

[Jalapeno]

America is a bully, hated by people from around the world- thanks to it's evil presidents and apathetic citizens.

THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE????? If you don't like it here then get to steppin' sister...hell I'll buy you the plane ticket!! Let's see how you like life over there. I guarantee you wouldn't be running your fricken mouth there like you are here......oh yeah that's because YOU CAN'T!! How quick you forget!

[Kathy B]

While I don't agree with Farhana's post in it's entirety or tone, I do think the U.S. has lost a lot of credibility with many people outside of the U.S. since the invasion of Iraq, and the comment she made is how many people in other countries (especially Middle Eastern countries) do feel, whether WE see it that way or not.

The thing is, you can live in the US, be a citizen, and still be very unhappy with any given president and his policies. Doesn't mean you don't appreciate your liberties, just that you are exercising them....

[mom2garret]

Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator alright but What Bush And U.S did in the name of justice was a joke. Bush killed even more people invading other countries, so did Sharon........ where is justice then? And the worst part is the day he was put to death was Eid-ul-adha and after his death his body was left to be dishonored. The president who was responsible for the masacre in Vietnam....... we didn't see him hang, did we?

America helped Iraq all those years when there was a war going on between Iraq and Iran, knowing very well he was a killer all along, Ramsfield even pictured shaking hands with him- with a big smile and then all on a sudden they realized he was a dictator?

What was done to him is unfair and doing it on Eid day only proves how disrespectful Bush and U.S is towards Muslims.

You have got to be kidding me! Nuff said....................

[badunnin]

While I don't agree with Farhana's post in it's entirety or tone, I do think the U.S. has lost a lot of credibility with many people outside of the U.S. since the invasion of Iraq, and the comment she made is how many people in other countries (especially Middle Eastern countries) do feel, whether WE see it that way or not.

The thing is, you can live in the US, be a citizen, and still be very unhappy with any given president and his policies. Doesn't mean you don't appreciate your liberties, just that you are exercising them....


Kathy - thank you for posting this. You said what I'd like to say in a much less snarky tone. ;)

I do believe that our image abroad has been tarnished by the current administration, and unfortunately Farhana's sentiment is all too common outside our borders. And while it's easy to sit back and say "well, then, they don't have to live here!", we are playing a global game and do need to play nice with others on occasion. Sentiment like this, including the rancor, can get us into trouble in the future if we don't watch our step. Sometimes it isn't about reality, it's about perception, especially when you are peering into other people's windows, as the rest of the world does to us (and we do to them). You end up seeing just a segment of their lives and their reality, and it may not be very appealing to you. Just my .02. *shrug*

[mom2garret]

The thing is, you can live in the US, be a citizen, and still be very unhappy with any given president and his policies. [/QUOTE]

Hindsight is everything. This is why we have a limit on how long one man or women can serve. I still think her response was a freaking joke. Can't really make the comparison she is trying to make. But your right Kathy, that is the great thing about living here. Farhana has the right to her views.
Jodi

[honeygirl1971]

While I don't agree with Farhana's post in it's entirety or tone, I do think the U.S. has lost a lot of credibility with many people outside of the U.S. since the invasion of Iraq, and the comment she made is how many people in other countries (especially Middle Eastern countries) do feel, whether WE see it that way or not.

The thing is, you can live in the US, be a citizen, and still be very unhappy with any given president and his policies. Doesn't mean you don't appreciate your liberties, just that you are exercising them....

I agree with Kathy here. FTR, I do NOT agree with what Farhana posted here (or elsewhere), but it is true that a lot of people in other countries are HIGHLY suspicious of the war, the execution, etc., and I'm talking European-ally countries, not Islamist states. And, sadly, I do think that in the US there is a certain amount of apathy in some quarters towards what the US does in other countries. There is apathy in Europe too, but US actions (like the war) have such significant consequences, the apathy does sometimes seem more appalling...

[ClaraB]

The thing is, you can live in the US, be a citizen, and still be very unhappy with any given president and his policies. Doesn't mean you don't appreciate your liberties, just that you are exercising them....
But it sounds like she's not unhappy with just this president, but with all presidents, all politicians, and all citizens. Frankly, it sounds like she hates the country as a whole, which does make me wonder why she chooses to live in a country she hates so much. It is a free country, and she is certainly free say what she wants, but we are also free to reply to her.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of this current administration or the war in Iraq, but I completely fail to see how President Bush in any way compares to Saddam Hussein - he gassed hundreds of thousands of his own citizens, for Pete's sake! :( There is no comparison, and people who are extremist enough to try to make the parallel need to wake up. Discuss the failings of the US if you want, but do it rationally, or you've lost the argument from the beginning.

[sneezles]

But it sounds like she's not unhappy with just this president, but with all presidents, all politicians, and all citizens. Frankly, it sounds like she hates the country as a whole, which does make me wonder why she chooses to live in a country she hates so much. It is a free country, and she is certainly free say what she wants, but we are also free to reply to her.



I don't think there is a member here that is in favor of this war and many have said so from the start. Many have been very vocal of their dislike fo the present Admin never micning words! But I dno't think anyone could compare in the hatred you see in Farhanna's posts.There weren't many in favor of the Vietman war either but the average citizen doesn't really have much input and my one vote isn't going to change a freakin' thing!

Post this morning's article from the NY Times that explains that it wasn't the US or the president that executed Hussien but rather the Shiite's in control in Iraq.

January 1, 2007
Rush to Hang Hussein Was Questioned
By JOHN F. BURNS and MARC SANTORA

BAGHDAD, Dec. 31 — With his plain pine coffin strapped into an American military helicopter for a predawn journey across the desert, Saddam Hussein, the executed dictator who built a legend with his defiance of America, completed a turbulent passage into history on Sunday.

Like the helicopter trip, just about everything in the 24 hours that began with Mr. Hussein’s being taken to his execution from his cell in an American military detention center in the postmidnight chill of Saturday had a surreal and even cinematic quality.

Part of it was that the Americans, who turned him into a pariah and drove him from power, proved to be his unlikely benefactors in the face of Iraq’s new Shiite rulers who seemed bent on turning the execution and its aftermath into a new nightmare for the Sunni minority privileged under Mr. Hussein.

The 110-mile journey aboard a Black Hawk helicopter carried Mr. Hussein’s body to an American military base north of Tikrit, Camp Speicher, named for an American Navy pilot lost over Iraq in the first hours of the Persian Gulf war in 1991. From there, an Iraqi convoy carried him to Awja, the humble town beside the Tigris River that Mr. Hussein, in the chandeliered palaces that became his habitat as ruler, spoke of as emblematic of the miseries of his lonely and impoverished youth.

The American role extended beyond providing the helicopter that carried Mr. Hussein home. Iraqi and American officials who have discussed the intrigue and confusion that preceded the decision late on Friday to rush Mr. Hussein to the gallows have said that it was the Americans who questioned the political wisdom — and justice — of expediting the execution, in ways that required Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki to override constitutional and religious precepts that might have assured Mr. Hussein a more dignified passage to his end.

The Americans’ concerns seem certain to have been heightened by what happened at the hanging, as evidenced in video recordings made just before Mr. Hussein fell through the gallows trapdoor at 6:10 a.m. on Saturday. A new video that appeared on the Internet late Saturday, apparently made by a witness with a camera cellphone, underscored the unruly, mocking atmosphere in the execution chamber.

This continued, on the video, through the actual hanging itself, with a shout of “The tyrant has fallen! May God curse him!” as Mr. Hussein hung lifeless, his neck snapped back and his glassy eyes open.

The cacophony from those gathered before the gallows included a shout of “Go to hell!” as the former ruler stood with the noose around his neck in the final moments, and his riposte, barely audible above the bedlam, which included the words “gallows of shame.” It continued despite appeals from an official-sounding voice, possibly Munir Haddad, the judge who presided at the hanging, saying, “Please no! The man is about to die.”

The Shiites who predominated at the hanging began a refrain at one point of “Moktada! Moktada! Moktada!”— the name of a volatile cleric whose private militia has spawned death squads that have made an indiscriminate industry of killing Sunnis — appending it to a Muslim imprecation for blessings on the Prophet Muhammad. “Moktada,” Mr. Hussein replied, smiling contemptuously. “Is this how real men behave?”

American officials in Iraq have been reluctant to say much publicly about the pell-mell nature of the hanging, apparently fearful of provoking recriminations in Washington, where the Bush administration adopted a hands-off posture, saying the timing of the execution was Iraq’s to decide.

While privately incensed at the dead-of-night rush to the gallows, the Americans here have been caught in the double bind that has ensnared them over much else about the Maliki government — frustrated at what they call the government’s failure to recognize its destructive behavior, but reluctant to speak out, or sometimes to act, for fear of undermining Mr. Maliki and worsening the situation.

But a narrative assembled from accounts by various American officials, and by Iraqis present at some of the crucial meetings between the two sides, shows that it was the Americans who counseled caution in the way the Iraqis carried out the hanging. The issues uppermost in the Americans’ minds, these officials said, were a provision in Iraq’s new Constitution that required the three-man presidency council to approve hangings, and a stipulation in a longstanding Iraqi law that no executions can be carried out during the Id al-Adha holiday, which began for Iraqi Sunnis on Saturday and Shiites on Sunday.

A senior Iraqi official said the Americans staked out their ground at a meeting on Thursday, 48 hours after an appeals court had upheld the death sentence passed on Mr. Hussein and two associates. They were convicted in November of crimes against humanity for the persecution of the Shiite townspeople of Dujail, north of Baghdad, in 1982. Mr. Hussein, as president, signed a decree to hang 148 men and teenage boys.

Told that Mr. Maliki wanted to carry out the death sentence on Mr. Hussein almost immediately, and not wait further into the 30-day deadline set by the appeals court, American officers at the Thursday meeting said that they would accept any decision but needed assurance that due process had been followed before relinquishing physical custody of Mr. Hussein.

“The Americans said that we have no issue in handing him over, but we need everything to be in accordance with the law,” the Iraqi official said. “We do not want to break the law.”

The American pressure sent Mr. Maliki and his aides into a frantic quest for legal workarounds, the Iraqi official said. The Americans told them they needed a decree from President Jalal Talabani, signed jointly by his two vice presidents, upholding the death sentence, and a letter from the chief judge of the Iraqi High Tribunal, the court that tried Mr. Hussein, certifying the verdict. But Mr. Talabani, a Kurd, made it known that he objected to the death penalty on principle.

The Maliki government spent much of Friday working on legal mechanisms to meet the American demands. From Mr. Talabani, they obtained a letter saying that while he would not sign a decree approving the hanging, he had no objections. The Iraqi official said Mr. Talabani first asked the tribunal’s judges for an opinion on whether the constitutional requirement for presidential approval applied to a death sentence handed down by the tribunal, a special court operating outside Iraq’s main judicial system. The judges said the requirement was void.

Mr. Maliki had one major obstacle: the Hussein-era law proscribing executions during the Id holiday. This remained unresolved until late Friday, the Iraqi official said. He said he attended a late-night dinner at the prime minister’s office at which American officers and Mr. Maliki’s officials debated the issue.

One participant described the meeting this way: “The Iraqis seemed quite frustrated, saying, ‘Who is going to execute him, anyway, you or us?’ The Americans replied by saying that obviously, it was the Iraqis who would carry out the hanging. So the Iraqis said, ‘This is our problem and we will handle the consequences. If there is any damage done, it is we who will be damaged, not you.’ ”

To this, the Iraqis added what has often been their trump card in tricky political situations: they telephoned officials of the marjaiya, the supreme religious body in Iraqi Shiism, composed of ayatollahs in the holy city of Najaf. The ayatollahs approved. Mr. Maliki, at a few minutes before midnight on Friday, then signed a letter to the justice minister, “to carry out the hanging until death.”

The Maliki letter sent Iraqi and American officials into a frenzy of activity. Fourteen Iraqi officials, including senior members of the Maliki government, were called at 1:30 a.m. on Saturday and told to gather at the prime minister’s office. At. 3:30 a.m., they were driven to the helicopter pad beside Mr. Hussein’s old Republican Palace, and taken to the prison in the northern suburb of Khadimiya where the hanging took place.

At about the same time, American and Iraqi officials said, Mr. Hussein was roused at his Camp Cropper cell 10 miles away, and taken to a Black Hawk helicopter for his journey to Khadimiya.

None of the Iraqi officials were able to explain why Mr. Maliki had been unwilling to allow the execution to wait. Nor would any explain why those who conducted it had allowed it to deteriorate into a sectarian free-for-all that had the effect, on the video recordings, of making Mr. Hussein, a mass murderer, appear dignified and restrained, and his executioners, representing Shiites who were his principal victims, seem like bullying street thugs.

But the explanation may have lain in something that Bassam al-Husseini, a Maliki aide closely involved in arrangements for the hanging, said to the BBC later. Mr. Husseini, who has American citizenship, described the hanging as “an Id gift to the Iraqi people.”

The weekend’s final disorderly chapter came with the tensions over Mr. Hussein’s body. For nearly 18 hours on Saturday, Mr. Maliki’s officials insisted that his corpse would be kept in secret government custody until circumstances allowed interment without his grave becoming a shrine or a target. Once again, the Americans intervened.

The leader of Mr. Hussein’s Albu-Nasir tribe, Sheik Ali al-Nida, said that before flying to Baghdad on an American helicopter, he had been so fearful for his safety that he had written a will. Bizarrely, Sheik Nida and others were shown on Iraqi television collecting the coffin from the courtyard in front of Mr. Maliki’s office, where it sat unceremoniously in a police pickup.

After the helicopter trip to Camp Speicher, the American base outside Tikrit, the coffin was taken in an Iraqi convoy to Awja, and laid to rest in the ornate visitors’ center that Mr. Hussein ordered built for the townspeople in the 1990s. Local officials and members of Mr. Hussein’s tribe had broken open the marbled floor in the main reception hall, and cleared what they said would be a temporary burial place until he could be moved to a permanent grave outside Awja where his two sons, Uday and Qusay, are buried.

At the burial, several mourners threw themselves on the closed casket. One, a young man convulsed with sobs, cried: “He has not died. I can hear him speaking to me.” Another shouted, “Saddam is dead! Instead of weeping for him, think of ways we can take revenge on the Iranian enemy,” Sunni parlance for the Shiites now in power.

Reporting was contributed by Abdul Razzaq al-Saiedi and Khalid W. Hassan from Baghdad, and an Iraqi employee of The New York Times from Tikrit.

[Escher]

<typical hair wrenching, teeth gnashing rant snipped>

Way. Too. Easy.

And in an unrelated note, little_bopeep, tbb113, and mbrogier all pick up 31 points.

[Chefzhat]

Way. Too. Easy.

And in an unrelated note, little_bopeep, tbb113, and mbrogier all pick up 31 points.
How fair is that? We all KNEW he was going to die. :confused:

Farhana - you need to get your anger under control. And your anti-semitism.

[Robyn1007]

How fair is that? We all KNEW he was going to die. :confused:



Ah, but see this was for 2006 so it was chosen back last December. They just got lucky that it happened before the new year.

[Chefzhat]

Oh. Duh. :) :) Silly me! Carry on!

[Robyn1007]

Oh. Duh. :) :) Silly me! Carry on!

:D :D Eh, it took me a moment to get it as well.