pizza crust dilemma

[Cathy]

I have been making my usual pizza crust and using a stone. Ever since I started using the stone though, the crust is consistantly coming out tough and not rising as much as it used to with a regular pan. I like the crispness of the dough and the overall pizza tastes better on the stone so I would like to get a good recipe or find out what I am doing wrong with my crust:-{ My recipe for the dough calls for 1C water to 3-4C flour, salt, yeast, sugar etc. Oddly enough, I cannot seem to get the dough to use more than about 2½C of the flour. Is the humidity effecting the dough? Altitude? I'm only at 2300ft. What the heck am I doing wrong? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[NydiaC]

Cathy,

Does your recipe call for letting the dough rise before you spread it out on the stone? Is the stone the same size as the pan you used before you got the stone? Do you make the dough by hand or use a bread machine? Also, did you freeze it and then take it out to use it? I found that when I froze the dough and took it out to use the next week and let it rise for 1 1/2 hours in a warm place, it didn't rise like it did when I made it fresh.

I really haven't seen a difference in the dough I make with the pizza stone. I love it! My recipe calls for about 1 1/8 cups of water and a full 4 cups of flour and about 2 tsp. of yeast (as well as sugar, salt, etc.) When I mix my dough it is still sticky. It does seem odd to me that you only use about 2 1/2 cups of flour to 1 cup of water. If you like, I could post my recipe when I get home so you can see the differences. My recipe makes 2 medium pan pizzas.

[RunnerKim]

Here's my standard pizza dough recipe. I almost always make it in the bread machine as we eat pizza on Friday nights (and we both work outside the home).

Basic Pizza Dough
Pizza: Any Way You Slice It

1 tsp active dry yeast
2/3 cups warm water (105 - 110&#61616
2 cups unbleached all-purpose flour
1 tsp salt

I actually increase the entire recipe by 50%- so i.e., 1 cup water to 3 cups flours. It makes 2 pizzas - ummm about 10" diameter I'd guess.

I have a different recipe that I use if I'm using my deep dish pizza pan.

A couple of things I can think of - how long do you let the pizza stone heat in the oven? - ideally it should be for an hour (not exactly great in the summer to have your oven at 450-500 for that long!).

I think mainly though it's that your dough must be too dry if you're getting up to 4c of flour. If you're finding the dough a bit sticky and hard to work with, I just picked up a great tip from Carol Fields, who was doing a Foccaccia demo recently - use wet fingers to shape the dough - don't flour your hands/rolling pin as the dough just continues to eat the flour and get dry.

Oh - this reminds me. The one time I was really impatient and brought out the rolling pin to shape the dough - it was tougher - particularly the leftovers. The crust wasn't even edible. So if you use a rolling pin try just shaping it by hand.

Kim

[lorilei]

Hmmmm, Sandy, I've been given opposite information about preheating my stone. Any idea why you would preheat?

[karen w]

You should preheat your stone for at least a half hour(or longer) at 450 to 500. The stone simulates the brick wood burning pizzeria ovens that most of us can't have in our own kitchen. So to get a nice thin crisp crust on homemade pizza you want the stone preheated at high heat well in advance to create that hot even baking temperature.

[RunnerKim]

Are you saying you've actually been told/read to not preheat the stone? I've done lots of reading about stones and bread baking and never seen a reference to not pre-heating it.

From my understanding:
It's important for the stone to be thoroughly heated before you put anything on it. Otherwise your dough could stick to the stone and you won't get the crisp texture that is the hallmark of the stone.

Kim

[lorilei]

Hmph.
I'm not sure if I was /told/ that, or if I've just never observed good stone habits. It is likely to be the latter, so until I've figured this out, just assume that I'm nutz

[Holly S]

In Lorilei's defense my stone came with instructions to NOT heat it up first.

[lorilei]

Thanks, Holly.

I've just done some reading myself, and apparently there are two different weights of stones -- heavy and light. If you own a heavyweight stone, your results will be better if you preheat. However, if you own a lightweight stone, you risk breaking the stone by preheating.

I'm not sure how to tell which type of stone you have -- my inclination would be to consult the instructions that came with the stone. I know the instructions on the Pampered Chef stones have been changed over the years (I think they are all non pre-bake stones now).

[MrsReber]

I have to put my two cents in, too. When I make my dough in my bread machine, I roll it out on a cool pizza stone and then bake it at 400-450 for about 10 minutes, until the crust turns a very light brown. Then I take it out and put the toppings on, put it back in and finish baking it. Before I started doing it this way, my crust would always be a little soggy.

here's my crust recipe- it comes out just perfect every time:

1 lb 2 lb

water 80 degrees F 3/4 cup 1 1/2 c +3 Tbs
oil 1 Tbl 2 Tbl
sugar 1 Tbl 2 Tbl
salt 1/2 tsp 1 tsp
dry milk 1 Tbl 2 Tbl
bread flour 2 1/2 c 4 1/2 c
active dry yeast 1 tsp 2 tsp

The 1 lb recipe makes 1 thick or 2 thin crusts. I make that one and just use it for one crust.

The 2 lb recipe makes 2 thick or 4 thin crusts.

[NydiaC]

I have a Pampered Chef stone which I never preheat. That's probably not a problem for me since I don't like crisp crust on anything I bake on it.

[Angela]

I too have a Pampered Chef stone; however, don't preheat it. I get a nice crispy crust. I used the CL Basic Pizza Dough (March 2000 issue) recipe and the crust was great.

[Beth]

My pizza stone in a large rectangular one, definitely heavy. The instructions it came with said to preheat, and when I forgot to turn the oven on in advance, the crust stuck and the pizza did not bake as well.

A couple of things I've noticed in baking pizzas:

1) Some instructions call for brushing oil on the crust before putting sauce or toppings on. This gives a moisture barrier; the partial pre-baking probably accomplishes about the same thing. I have gone from brushing with olive oil to giving a quick spray with cooking spray.

2) If your toppings are cold when put on top and in the oven, it can effect the crust baking (I used some crumbled sausage straight out of the freezer and got an underbaked middle.

3) If you top the pizza too heavily, it may not bake as well. Same goes for half and half pizzas (half cheese for the kids/half kitchen sink).

4) A steam source at the beginning of the baking may help the crust rise and the crust crispen. This comes from baking French breads. You can use a mister (water only, no plant spray residues), put a couple of ice cubes in the oven, put hot water under the rack with the pizza (in an ovenproof pan).

I live at near sea level, so I haven't a clue on that part of your questions. Hope you figure it out.

[Cathy]

My stone is a Roshco Bakers's Advantage. Must be an off brand but seems to a heavier grade of stone. The instructions say most recipes suggest preheating 15-20 min but doesn't say whether this stone should always be preheated? I allow the dough to rise about an hour or until double in bulk before I shape it on a peel with my hands. I have baked bread many times and I have to say this dough just doesn't feel right. It feels too heavy as I knead it. Would you please post your recipe? Thank you for your help. We really love to make pizzas here at home, especially in the winter. When it's snowing, pizza on a Saturday night and a movie is the evening's entertainment

Originally posted by NydiaC:
Cathy,

Does your recipe call for letting the dough rise before you spread it out on the stone? Is the stone the same size as the pan you used before you got the stone? Do you make the dough by hand or use a bread machine? Also, did you freeze it and then take it out to use it? I found that when I froze the dough and took it out to use the next week and let it rise for 1 1/2 hours in a warm place, it didn't rise like it did when I made it fresh.

I really haven't seen a difference in the dough I make with the pizza stone. I love it! My recipe calls for about 1 1/8 cups of water and a full 4 cups of flour and about 2 tsp. of yeast (as well as sugar, salt, etc.) When I mix my dough it is still sticky. It does seem odd to me that you only use about 2 1/2 cups of flour to 1 cup of water. If you like, I could post my recipe when I get home so you can see the differences. My recipe makes 2 medium pan pizzas.

[Cathy]

Thank you for the recipe. I'll give it a try. It may take a few times for me to find a recipe that works well here and I appreciate you sharing yours. Cathy

Originally posted by MrsReber:
I have to put my two cents in, too. When I make my dough in my bread machine, I roll it out on a cool pizza stone and then bake it at 400-450 for about 10 minutes, until the crust turns a very light brown. Then I take it out and put the toppings on, put it back in and finish baking it. Before I started doing it this way, my crust would always be a little soggy.

here's my crust recipe- it comes out just perfect every time:

1 lb 2 lb

water 80 degrees F 3/4 cup 1 1/2 c +3 Tbs
oil 1 Tbl 2 Tbl
sugar 1 Tbl 2 Tbl
salt 1/2 tsp 1 tsp
dry milk 1 Tbl 2 Tbl
bread flour 2 1/2 c 4 1/2 c
active dry yeast 1 tsp 2 tsp

The 1 lb recipe makes 1 thick or 2 thin crusts. I make that one and just use it for one crust.

The 2 lb recipe makes 2 thick or 4 thin crusts.

[SandyM]

Are you pre-heating the stone? It has to be HOT (not just warm) before you put the pizza on it. I preheat the stone for 30 minutes in my gas oven - it's probably longer than necessary, but I want to make sure it's thoroughly heated through.

[NydiaC]

Cathy,

I'm at work now and don't have my recipe with me and will be leaving town for the weekend, so I'll post it on Monday when I get back. Have fun trying all these new recipes. I'm sure you'll fine one that works well for you.

[MrsReber]

Good luck, Cathy, I hope that recipe works out for you. I like to add some herbs or some parmesan to the dough while it's kneading, too. Makes me want to make another pizza! I just might do that tonight!

[CrystalB]

Would someone mind posting the CL Basic Pizza Dough from March 2000? Thanks.

[Gail]

Here you go, Crystal!

ALL-PURPOSE PIZZA DOUGH

1 pkg dry yeast, (about 2 1/4 tsps)
1 1/4 cup warm water (100º to 110º)
3 1/4 cups all-purpose flour, divided
1/2 tsp salt
cooking spray

1. Dissolve yeast in warm water in a large bowl, and let stand 5 minutes. Lightly spoon flour into dry measuring cups, and level with a knife. Add 1 cup flour and salt to yeast mixture, and stir well. Stir in 2 cups flour, 1 cup at a time, stirring well after each addition. Turn the dough out onto a floured surface. Knead until smooth and elastic (about 10 minutes), and add enough of the remaining flour, 1 tablespoon at a time, to prevent the dough from sticking to hands (dough will feel tacky.)
2. Place the dough in a large bowl coated with cooking spray, turning to coat top. Cover and let rise in a warm place (85º), free from drafts. 1 hour or until doubled in size. (Press two fingers into dough. If an indentation remains, the dough has risen enough.) Punch dough down, cover and let rest 5 minutes. Shape dough according to recipe directions. Yield: 1 pizza dough.

NOTE: To freeze, let the dough rise once, punch down, and shape into a ball. Place in a heavy-duty zip-top plastic bag coated with cooking spray; squeeze out all air, and seal. Store in freezer up to 1 month. To thaw, place dough in refrigerator 12 hours or overnight. With scissors, cut away the plastic bag. Place dough on floured surface and shape according to recipe directions. Alternatively, for pizza, you can make the dough, roll out, wrap in foil and freeze. To bake, remove from freezer, top and bake according to recipe instructions (no need to thaw.)

(Totals are for entire All-purpose Pizza Dough) CALORIES 1,505 (3% from fat); FAT 5 g (sat 0.8g, mono 0.7g, poly 2.1g); PROTEIN 44.6g; CARB 312.7g; FIBER 12.9g; CHOL 0mg;IRON 20mg; SODIUM 1,184 mg; CALCIUM 66mg

[This message has been edited by Gail (edited 08-11-2000).]

[CrystalB]

Thanks Gail! My mom bought me a stone recently and I can't wait to try it out!

[Angela]

For crusts that are sticking to the stone, try this solution sprinkling some (approx. 1 tablespoon) corn meal on the stone before laying the crust on it.

[Gail]

Originally posted by Angela:
For crusts that are sticking to the stone, try this solution sprinkling some (approx. 1 tablespoon) corn meal on the stone before laying the crust on it.

...or if you're building your pizza on the pizza peel as I do, if you sprinkle the cornmeal on the peel before you place the dough on top, the corn meal will act as ball bearings, helping to propel the dough off the peel. On the old board, someone had suggested using semolina, I believe for this same purpose.

[Beth]

Cathy, I usually make a sourdough pizza crust and I can't tell you whether that makes a difference in the feel of the unbaked dough, but mine is very soft. This may sound weird, but it really reminds me of a baby's tummy or bottom.

If the dough is too heavy, it won't rise well. Whatever recipe you use, try adding maybe half the flour, then gradually adding the rest in 1/4 cup, even tablespoon amounts. Add just enough so that the dough is not sticky.

[Cathy]

Thanks for all the great help and responses. I'll keep trying until I find a recipe that works for me. I appreciate the time each of you took to offer your suggestions. :-))

[NydiaC]

Cathy,

Here is my recipe for pizza dough. I use the bread machine, but you shouldn't have to.


* Exported from MasterCook *

Pizza Dough

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :0:10
Categories : Bread Machine Favorite Homemade Breads


Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 3/8 Cups Water
4 cups Bread flour
2 Tablespoons Dry milk
1 Tablespoon sugar
2 teaspoons salt
1 Tablespoon butter
1 tablespoon active dry yeast

Place ingredients in a bread case.

Select the dough mode and press the START button. When buzzer sounds, press the STOP button and remove the bread case from the machine. Remove the dough and place in a lightly greased bowl.

Cover bowl with plastic wrap and a clean dish towel. Place in a warm area and allow to rise for 30 minutes.

Cut into equal portions. Form into balls.

Cover dough with a clean cloth and let rest for 15 minutes.

Roll each ball into a 10" circle with a rolling pin.

Place each circle on non-stick cookie sheet or pizza stone.

poke (the program wouldn't take the other word ) dough with a fork.

Top with your pizza with sauce and your favorite toppings. Bake at 400 degrees for 15 to 20 minutes or until crust is golden brown.

Source:
"ChefMate Bread and Dough Maker Instructions and Recipes"
Yield:
"2 pizzas"
Start to Finish Time:
"2:35"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Per serving: 140 Calories (kcal); 2g Total Fat; (10% calories from fat); 5g Protein; 26g Carbohydrate; 3mg Cholesterol; 279mg Sodium
Food Exchanges: 1 1/2 Grain(Starch); 0 Lean Meat; 0 Vegetable; 0 Fruit; 0 Fat; 0 Other Carbohydrates

NOTES : Each slice without topping is 3 Weight Watchers points.
Nutr. Assoc. : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Something else about your dilemma also occurred to me. When you measure your flour, do you spoon it into the measuring cup, or do you scoop it out of the flour canister with the measuring cup? If you scoop it out with the measuring cup you end up packing twice as much flour into a cup than the recipe actually calls for, which could be the reason it seems to only take you 2 1/2 cups of flour when the recipe calls for 3 to 4 cups and could be the cause of the dough being tough.

Hope this helps!

[This message has been edited by NydiaC (edited 08-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by NydiaC (edited 08-14-2000).]

[JennyLiz]

Lora Brody makes a product called Bread Dough Relaxer - add a few teaspoons to your favorite pizza dough recipe and it's a cinch to roll it out. This may not help your problem, but I had to throw in my 2 cents worth! -jennyliz