Community Message Boards
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: natural blood thinners

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
    Posts
    2,499

    Question natural blood thinners

    I've been puzzling over this for the last couple of weeks, and thought some of you may have a bit of wisdom to share on the subject.

    DH and I both have high blood pressure and artherosclerosis in our families and therefore take preventive measures to try to avoid these problems. One of the things we do is take a baby aspirin each morning. But there are a number of other things we take that also have blood thinning properties, so until I determine if we're overdoing it or not, we've ceased the aspirin regimen.

    So here are my questions. First, is a blood thinner and an anticoagulant basically the same thing? And second, how do you determine when you're doing too much of a good thing in this area? According to one article, all of these things affect anticoagulant drugs:
    Vitamin E, vitamin C, vitamin D, fish oil, garlic, ginkgo biloba, dong quai, bilberry, astragalus, capsaicin, fenugreek, vitamin K, feverfew, dan shen, papaya, angelica, enzymes, Siberian or Asian ginseng, alfalfa, green tea, St. John's wort, buchu, chamomile, ginger, Irish moss, kelp, lungwort, pauídíarco, prickly ash, wintergreen, yarrow, horse chestnut, red clover, coenzyme Q10, alcohol.

    Here's the source of the above list: http://www.vitalnutrients.net/demo/Word%20Doc's/Coumadin.htm

    The source article goes into some detail on each item as to how much you can take without interfering with the drugs. Point is, we take Vitamins E, C, Dand K, as well as Co-Q10. We also take ginger for its anti-inflammatory properties, bilberry for our eyes, fish oil, and raw garlic. Plus DH takes kelp for his rosacea and drinks a lot of green tea. And then there's alcohol, which isn't daily but most days.

    So how do I know if our blood is too thin, or if we may still benefit from the baby aspirin? One thought is to pay attention when we have a minor cut to see if we're clotting ok (which we are), and also see if we're bruising too easy or if the bruises are not normal and look darker and more purple (they don't). But I'm still concerned.

    I'm prepared to get no replies on this issue given the nature of it, but appreciate any thoughts you may have.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Heading WEST!!
    Posts
    15,260
    Wow, that's a lot-a-questions

    Here's my 2cents...
    some of the items on your list actually help with clotting (like vitamin K), which means it negates the affect of blood thinners/anticoagulants.

    Garlic, vitamin E, fish oil, alcohol of any kind are all thinners.
    How much is too much? That is hard to say because each of us clots at different speeds. The aspirin, in addition to minimizing clots also offers antiinflammatory properties.

    If your doc has given you the go-ahead, you may not want to skip the aspirin.
    Aspirin has been shown to decrease some types of cancers.
    Sadly, I cannot find more studies/research on the one that showed women who take aspirin risk a higher increase in pancreatic cancer, but the numbers were very, very, very small.

    You can ask your doc to check clotting for you if you are concerned but you can pretty much tell if you cut yourself and don't take forever to stop bleeding that you are not overdoing it.

    I will say that it is great that you are checking...even though most blood thinners are taken to prevent heart-attacks and strokes, there is a small risk of hemorrhagic stroke (bleeding too much into your brain, versus the traditional blood not flowing to the brain) for some individuals.
    Thoreau said, 'A man is rich in proportion to the things he can leave alone.'

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
    Posts
    2,499
    Thanks Ana for replying--I wasn't thinking about K helping with clotting, or about the potential anti-cancer properties of aspirin--both good things to think about.

    With DH and I we sort of have this pact: he's in charge of organizing our exercise and making sure we do it (and doing a poor job lately ) and I'm in charge of diet and supplements, which I take very seriously, especially the supplements because I'm well aware of the medicinal qualities and therefore risks associated with them. And this issue has been nagging at me for a while. You can't really consult your doctor, because he'll simply say "Why are you taking all that stuff?" and rather than answer the questions he'll advise to stop taking them, greatly because he doesn't know enough about the supplements to give any advice. Honestly I'm not picking on the doctors, they're simply not taught much about this stuff yet.

    Thanks also for affirming my thought that if we seem to be clotting properly when we cut ourselves then we're probably doing just fine.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    One Particular Harbour
    Posts
    2,374
    It occurs to me that perhaps you are too focused on thinning the blood, at the expense of other yardsticks, like cholesterol levels. (Of course, you could be also as involved in those areas and just didn't mention them in your post).

    I have no medical background, but I don't know that you can measure or compare the thinness of blood with just your eyeballing your reaction to a cut. In other words, I don't know if you need lab tests to detect relevant changes in that chemistry. My MIL is on coumadin and has to have regular bloodwork done to test teh effectiveness of that drug. Her doc has never mentioned that she should take note of her response to cuts, other than of course a major change or bruise.

    Are you also taking other steps to ameliorate the high BP and possible high cholesterol, like exercise, low-fat diet, etc.?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
    Posts
    2,499
    Quote Originally Posted by BucknellAlum View Post
    It occurs to me that perhaps you are too focused on thinning the blood, at the expense of other yardsticks, like cholesterol levels. (Of course, you could be also as involved in those areas and just didn't mention them in your post).

    I have no medical background, but I don't know that you can measure or compare the thinness of blood with just your eyeballing your reaction to a cut. In other words, I don't know if you need lab tests to detect relevant changes in that chemistry. My MIL is on coumadin and has to have regular bloodwork done to test teh effectiveness of that drug. Her doc has never mentioned that she should take note of her response to cuts, other than of course a major change or bruise.

    Are you also taking other steps to ameliorate the high BP and possible high cholesterol, like exercise, low-fat diet, etc.?
    I suspect you were typing as I was posting my reply to Ana above, but yes, we definitely pay close attention to cholesterol--not so much total cholesterol but ratio, as well as triglycerides, etc.--and we do exercise regularly, and eat a healthy diet in terms of whole foods, healthy oils and so on. I'm not so much a believer in a low-fat diet anymore, but we do stay around 30% calories from fat at the most.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Heading WEST!!
    Posts
    15,260
    Actually, many docs will tell men on coumadin or warfarin to only shave using an electric razor....for the reason that they won't clot well.
    I agree, this is not the only test someone should take, but Julie also is not on medicinally strong blood thinners.
    Thoreau said, 'A man is rich in proportion to the things he can leave alone.'

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    4,514
    Quote Originally Posted by JulieM View Post
    So here are my questions. First, is a blood thinner and an anticoagulant basically the same thing? ....So how do I know if our blood is too thin, or if we may still benefit from the baby aspirin? One thought is to pay attention when we have a minor cut to see if we're clotting ok (which we are), and also see if we're bruising too easy or if the bruises are not normal and look darker and more purple (they don't). But I'm still concerned.

    I'm prepared to get no replies on this issue given the nature of it, but appreciate any thoughts you may have.

    Come on Julie...ya gotta make an appointment to come into our store and meet with one of the docs....it's free, and they are available every Tuesday and Thursday from 1-5PM...they'll sit down with you and go over everything, and answer all your questions...we have a great MD, Dr. Smith, who's new, and Dr. Hall is an ND (Naturopath), plus a few others....

    ~Gail
    "I expect to pass through life but once.
    If, therefore, there be any kindness I can show or any good thing I can do any fellow being, let me do it now and not defer or neglect it, as I shall not pass this way again."
    -William Penn (1644-1718)

    ~~www.Nurse-Gail.com~~

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
    Posts
    2,499
    Quote Originally Posted by gabbyh View Post
    Come on Julie...ya gotta make an appointment to come into our store and meet with one of the docs....it's free, and they are available every Tuesday and Thursday from 1-5PM...they'll sit down with you and go over everything, and answer all your questions...we have a great MD, Dr. Smith, who's new, and Dr. Hall is an ND (Naturopath), plus a few others....

    ~Gail
    Really! You and I have chatted many times but I didn't realize they would do an initial consult for free. I will definitely take you up on this. Am I limited to one doctor, or can I see the MD as well as the Naturopath?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    4,514
    It's not actually only 1 free consult, it's a service my department offers...the docs are in the store every Tues and Thurs to meet with people; you can see the one that is on for that day, but you can come back as often as you'd like (plus I get to meet you )

    Some folks wouldn't be caught dead talking to an ND, then others would never talk to an MD....personal preference I guess

    Also, starting in Jan 2008 we will be offering a monthly lecture series where one of my folks will be giving a free seminar in the store atrium every month in the evening.

    AND I've just finished interviewing for an Oncology Health Advisor, which we will be interviewing next month...for those that want to do alternative cancer treatments.

    How far are you from 1100 W. Commercial?

    ~Gail
    "I expect to pass through life but once.
    If, therefore, there be any kindness I can show or any good thing I can do any fellow being, let me do it now and not defer or neglect it, as I shall not pass this way again."
    -William Penn (1644-1718)

    ~~www.Nurse-Gail.com~~

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
    Posts
    2,499
    Quote Originally Posted by gabbyh View Post
    It's not actually only 1 free consult, it's a service my department offers...the docs are in the store every Tues and Thurs to meet with people; you can see the one that is on for that day, but you can come back as often as you'd like (plus I get to meet you )

    Some folks wouldn't be caught dead talking to an ND, then others would never talk to an MD....personal preference I guess

    Also, starting in Jan 2008 we will be offering a monthly lecture series where one of my folks will be giving a free seminar in the store atrium every month in the evening.

    AND I've just finished interviewing for an Oncology Health Advisor, which we will be interviewing next month...for those that want to do alternative cancer treatments.

    How far are you from 1100 W. Commercial?

    ~Gail
    Meeting you would make it worthwhile in any event! I'm just off Las Olas, near the shops, so I'm not that far from Commercial.

    As far as the ND vs MD debate, I'm an avid Dr. Weil fan and believe a blending of the two is the best.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •