Relationship Question (family stuff)

[MrsReber]

Here's the story- my mom had a boyfriend for the past 20 years. My brother sister and I were in our teens when we first met him. Earlier this year, he decided that he wasn't happy anymore and moved out. My mom had refused to marry him for all those years for reasons only she knows (she blames it on everything under the sun- his kids, money, "I was married before," we're not having more kids so why get married.....) Anyway, she wasn't happy either these past few years. They still see each other at work and have dinner on occasion, as "friends." He said he was taking time to think things over, but it's obvious now that he doesn't want to make the relationship work. She told him to get out of her life if that's how he feels.

Meanwhile, during this 20 year relationship, my brother, sister and I have all had children who know and love this man. We all also moved out of state. My brother's daughter is now 15 1/2. This man has been to all her dance recitals, plays, and been there for every birthday. My brother and his family just moved over the summer. After moving, my SIL sent out a letter telling everyone of their new contact information. My neice may have added a personal note and they put my neice's most recent school picture in the envelope (I got the same generic letter and the same picture).

My mom flipped when her ex told her that he got a letter with their information. She said that we are not to speak to him or contact him and he is not to contact us. I told her that it's not fair to my neice as her ex filled the grandfather role since the day she was born! Her maternal grandfather has seen her maybe twice and my dad lived far from us. My mom's response was "I know it's not fair, but I don't really care. I'm calling your brother and he will do as I say." Okay, my brother is 42. I told her she has no control over what he does, but she thinks otherwise. She's angry because her ex's kids don't keep in touch with her (she was never fond of them, which may have been part of the problem).

Is my brother wrong to try to continue a relationship with someone he actually likes and who has been in his life for 20 years?? It's not like they're hanging out and playing golf, but my brother has talked to him once since he moved in July and they sent the letter. What would you do?? I'm really curious since I feel badly about the situation. I was able to warn my brother that he's going to get an ear full next time he talks to my mom! I think she's just hurt an angry and irrational- I see her point in a way, but we're all adults and it seems so awful to tell my neice that she can no longer have this person in her life at all.

[TKay]

I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, of course, but based on what you're saying, I think your mom's being unreasonable. I don't see anything wrong with you guys (and the younger kids) keeping in touch with her ex. If they'd been married and he'd officially been their grandfather, she couldn't forbid contact. So I don't get her wishes now.
I have a brother who is not married to his live-in girlfriend of forever. I don't know, it's been probably 12 years or so. They have a child and for all intents and purposes, this woman is my SIL. If they ever break up, I'd have no problem with my kids keeping in touch with their "aunt."
In your mom's case, did something awful happen? It sounds like this guys is nice and pretty reasonable. You don't think he did something bad and she wants to keep you guys away from him, do you? It's more like she's hurt and wants to punish him by not letting him see you guys? That's what it seems like to me. Maybe you guys can just be respectful of her by not telling her when you've had contact with him. It may be too much for her right now.
Good luck with your situation.

[Grace]

Not in my opinion, he's not wrong!!! Your mother chose to bring new person into all of your lives. That was her choice and her doing!! She has to live with the "consequences" (if you want to call it that - maybe "fall out" would be a better term) from that. She doesn't get to have control over any other people's relationships. Not anyone in the whole world. Now she could control your relationship with anyone if you were underaged, but as adults, you all are allowed to have a relationship with anyone you want. Period. End of story.

As someone who comes from a family with LOTS of divorce, LOTS of new boyfriends/girlfriends, I am saddened at how marriage is so devalued in our society. Not even so much the first marriages, but what happens afterwards. If people think that marriage doesn't effect anyone except the two in the relationship, they're just wrong. Your family is living proof of that.

Anyway, your Mother may rant and rave, she may not like it, but IMO she has no say in the matter and she'll just have to get over it. She is being selfish and unfair and heartless. To cut a child off from someone they love because of your own feelings is cruel and not very loving at all. I'm not trying to say bad things about your mother, I'm just saying what I think of that kind of behavior/attitude.

Sorry you have to deal with this. All I can say is "welcome to my world" .

[sneezles]

Sounds like her anger and emotions are in control right now so it may take some time for her to deal with all of that. Personally, I didn't like it when I was and kid and my folks tried to tell me who my friends could be so I certainly wouldn't stand for it as an adult. I think your brother's family could have a quiet relationship with this man if your brother was to talk to the ex about the situation. Not the most honest thing and your brother will have to explain to his daughter, this man is no longer in grandma's life, somehow. Never an easy situation when emotions are at the front!

[BlueMoose]

I agree...it sounds like your mom is being irrational. I think your family has every right to continue a relationship with someone who has been a part of your lives for such a long time.

[lbd]

I don't think it's at all unreasonable for your brother (or you, since you ask ) to maintain a relationship with this man. Whatever his legal status may or may not have been, this man has been the grandfather in these kids' lives and it would be totally unfair to them (and him) for that relationship to be wrenched away.

At the same time, I can understand why your mother would want you to cut off contact. I think such feelings are understandable but unreasonable and/or irrational and your mother's just going to have to, to paraphrase someone's tagline, pull up her big girl panties and get on with her life. As you say, your brother's an adult and entitled to decide who he associates with. Sounds like your niece is also probably old enough to decide herself whether she wants to maintain contact, and shouldn't be punished if she chooses in favor of it. At 15, she's definitely old enough to be get that Grandma and Grandpa have split it -- sadly, there's no way this is her first exposure to divorce/separation. Hopefully as time passes, your mother's anger will lessen along with it.

We may have a somewhat similar situation in the future. My DH's mother married when DH was almost out of high school so his stepfather was certainly not involved in raising him. Although they have a decent relationship, it's not close by any means. However, stepdad was married to my MIL long before I came into the picture and is the only grandfather my DS has on that side of the family (DH's father died long ago). I don't see a divorce in their future but should MIL's poor health progress faster than FIL's, how much contact if any do we maintain with him? Although DH and I aren't close to FIL, how do we explain to DS why Grandpa C is no longer his grandpa?

PS I am assuming the absence of any sort of abuse or serious problem with continued contact, which would probably change my answer...

[DmOrtega]

We've gone through a similar issue also. Divorce and separation is hard on everyone, not just the two involved. When someone has been an important part of your life, why dump that relationship because of their situation with someone else hasn't worked out? You need to stand up to that fact and tell your dm that her relationship with the ex is not yours. You will continue to include him as you would any other relative or freind and that's that.

Do not get in the middle of their dispute at any time because then you may have no choice but to take sides. If it comes down to that tell them both the same thing, all issues between them are theirs alone to work out, not yours and not your kids. Over time they will settle down and accept that they do not have that right or power to choose for you. Good luck.

[LakeMartinGal]

It sounds like just hurt feelings -- she doesn't want you to be friendly with him because she's hurt. I think I would just keep the relationship low profile, but she doesn't have the right to tell adults with whom they can be friends, or their children, either! <assuming no abuse involved...>

[raka1214]

We've gone through this exact issue with my middle brother twice now. He thinks that just because HE decided he didn't want to be with his wife (whichever one that may be - he's on his 3rd) any longer that WE were supposed to feel exactly the same way.

I told him very early on that there had been no need in my life in a LONG time to have my friends and the people I care about chosen for me and he wasn't about to have the honor of that responsibility now. He was an adult and he could get over it.

I made my decision and held fast to it and trust me, it's worked out better for me in the long run - I now have these people in my life I love and care about that love and care about me as well - long-term relationships that I would mourn if ever I lost them.

[erinl]

Hmm, I guess I have a bit of a different perspective. My aunt dated a man for the first 23 years of my life. Some things happened in her life that made her decide she wanted marriage. He said no, so she broke up with him. She found a wonderful new guy and was married shortly thereafter. Other guy (OG) tried to maintain a relationship with the nieces and nephews and it really irritated my aunt. He chose not to be a part of our family, therefore he shouldn't get to maintain a relationship with us. Initially I was a little conflicted, but ultimately I decided that my relationship with my aunt was far more important than that with OG. He gets a Christmas card now and that's it.

[Grace]

Oh erin, I don't think that's a different perspective at all. I agree with you totally on your situation, but the difference to me is YOU wanted to sever the relationship, your aunt didn't dictate to you whether you could talk to him or not. Yes, perhaps part of your decision was based on wanting to respect your aunt's wishes, but it doesn't sound to me like you had forged a very tight, loving relationship with OG on your own. If you had really become attached to OG like a real grandfather or something, I doubt you would have been able to so easily sever that relationship. But maybe I'm wrong. I didn't get that from your post though.

He chose not to marry into the family, it's true, but married or not, he was still a part of your family for 23 years. Your aunt for all intents and purposes was married to him and brought him into your family for many, many years. I can understand completely why your aunt would finally choose to move on if marriage was what she truly wanted and he wasn't interested (although I have to wonder why after 23 years, marriage was so important all of a sudden, and why she didn't give the guy the ultimatum sooner, but that's another discussion! ), but any relationships forged along the way don't need to be automatically invalidated just because of his relationship with your aunt. If you WANT to not see him anymore because you are hurt that he wouldn't marry your aunt, that's your choice and totally understandable. But if you weren't hurt by that and really loved him because of your own connection with him, and still your aunt forbid you to talk to him, I wonder if you would feel the same way?

Anyway, I just don't see the two circumstances as the same. And I don't think you're wrong either. I think both circumstances are different, but you're both right in how you feel about them.

[tbb113]

Susan - my stepfather once said to my mother that he could never divorce her since then I wouldn't let him see my boys. I know he was joking...but I would NEVER interfere with his relationship with my sons. He is the only grandfather that they have frequent (at least weekly if not more) contact with and the sun rises and sets on my children in his opinion!

So, IMHO, your mother is dead wrong to forbid contact and she needs to get over it.

[MrsReber]

Thanks for the advice and different perspectives. I can see that my mom is annoyed by my SIL contacting her ex. But some things on this thread make me realize that she is definitely wrong.

It's not like my brother is inviting the guy to come stay with him and play golf. They sent him contact information and a generic letter that was sent to family and friends. By the way, my brother also sent a Christmas card to my ex BIL and my sister had no problem with that at all.

I agree, my mom is hurt and this is her way of dealing with it. My brother laughed at the notion that my mother could tell him what he should and should not do at this stage of his life. Her ex is traveling to AZ for business, but she forbid him to contact my brother. She said "HE shouldn't get to see his new house before I do!!" Just jealousy, really. The ex saw my brother before he moved to AZ- to say good-bye. And then he called my brother once after he moved to tell him to call my mom more often because she was going through a rough time.

My sister's kids also talk about their "Papa Lou" as do my kids.

[boisewinesnob]

I agree, my mom is hurt and this is her way of dealing with it.


Her ex is traveling to AZ for business, but she forbid him to contact my brother. She said "HE shouldn't get to see his new house before I do!!"

Yes, she is hurt and upset and you can't blame her for those feelings, but come on! The comment about seeing somebody's house first sounds like something a little kid would whine about.

Another thing to consider is this: if by chance your mom and the boyfriend get back together, does she then get to give everybody permission to have contact with that guy at that time? She is being unreasonable but at the same time I'm sure it must be hard for her.

[LA98]

Susan, I've been in this situation: my brother married a woman with children, and he asked me specifically to act as a big sister to her daughter, which I did because I grew to love them all very quickly. SIL was wonderful to me, the sister I never had. Fast forward a few years (not 20, but about 7 or 8), brother and SIL are embroiled in a horribly nasty divorce, my brother the one completely at fault, SIL crying on my shoulder over all of it. Now, my brother and I have never gotten along well, and he totally freaked out when he found out DH and I were still in contact with her (dinners, phone calls, emails). We couldn't imagine how we could cut her and the kids out of our lives just like that, but he said I should have chosen blood over water, etc, and to this day he has never forgiven me for this "betrayal." As it turned out, a short time later, SIL decided she needed to sever all ties with my family in order to heal after the divorce, so I lost her anyway. And as I mentioned, my brother has held an enormous grudge against me years later over this issue.

Not saying your mother is like that, but your brother may want to weigh his options a little and think about what future repercussions could be and what it's all worth to him to keep contact with him when your mother is so against it (all the while agreeing that she's being unreasonable)...

[MrsReber]

She'd never cut ties with my brother, I know that much. She'll be aggravated by it. My brother pointed out that if something happened to my mom, her ex would most likely call him as he's living in the same state as her. All three of her children have moved away.

Yes, it is childish, but she's like that. She claims she got over her divorce with my dad 6 months after he left. However, she will STILL (over 30 years later) tell me how angry she is about things that he's done. My dad has been re-married for the past 25 years and he hardly ever says one bad word about my mom. He discussed it once when my sister was going through her divorce, but aside from that, he's never said anything bad. He has truly moved on whereas I think my mom gets so caught up in the hurt and the anger that she can't move on. It's sad. I love her to death- she's actually here for the week- but she can be so impossible with this stuff. She kind, loving and generous with all her grandkids. She's actually cleaning my house this morning for me! BUT- She would like everyone to do what she thinks they should do. She can live with it if they don't follow her instructions, but you'll certainly hear about it later!

[Canice]

... I think my mom gets so caught up in the hurt and the anger that she can't move on....

Yes, it certainly sounds that way!
In a very generic sense, I do understand why should would wish that the rest of the family would be done with her ex, but to declare that she is the arbiter of who may be friends with whom is just absurd. You, your brother, the ex are all adults and YOU decide on your friendships, not dear old mom. And that includes playing golf, if the two wish to.

I would refuse to participate in any conversations with mom or the ex that involved bad-mouthing or speculation, of course, but the grown-ups get to choose their friends.