boys and 'violent' toys

[DanaSD]

I'm a mom of a boy (age 3 almost 4) and trying to decide where I stand on this. I don't have any brothers either so I didn't grow up with boys around. So this boy thing is new to me. At first I was a no guns or any weapons for toys but then I started to change my mind.

*I'm interested in hearing different opinions because I'm not really sure how I feel about all this and where to draw lines on what toys are allowed, what type of play is allowed, what type of cartoons to let him watch, etc

We don't allow any toys that look like real guns but there are so many other weapons and fighter toys - like many boys he loves transformers, super heros, pirates, knights. All of these things fight and many use some kind of weapon. He's never seen the transformer movie, starwars, etc but has seen the cartoon versions and just learns about all this from kids at school and other places. He now has toys that have weapons on them (transformers, pirate legos, Buzz lightyear toys, etc though I usually remove the weapon if it can be removed). But even withouth weapon toys they will turn things into weapons - he decided that the Thomas the train railroad crossing gate was a 'shooter' and was using that to shoot something. He will build swords and guns out of tinker toys and legos.

I think the most important thing is to teach your kids about right and wrong, violence, guns, etc. But its the playing and tv watching where I'm not sure where I stand on how much to allow. At first I was no weapons allowed, then I bought him a sword as part of a knight costume last year and since then have allowed a lot more of these toys. He loves to talk about 'guns' and 'shooters' and they don't like the kids to talk about this/play this at school. I feel more ok with a sword but I think this is because people don't fight with swords today.

[Luv to Cook]

I have girls and now a boy, who is not even one yet, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. I was also a no weapon gal, but when DD2 started at a cooperative preschool, they had a different philosophy and it seems to work well. In their 30+ years of teaching, they have noted that many boys, and some girls, in the absence of "actual" toy weapons, will use other toys as weapons, as your son did with the crossing gate. So, they let the children use weapons as super hero play and they try to appeal to the rescuing and helping attributes of super heroes.

They do discourage physical aggression, and do not let children bring in "weapons", but they understand that children will often make do with what they have and create their own toys for their purpose. It seems to work at school...anyhow, just thought I would chime in, since it just came up today at her school and I had to figure out how to handle it!

[Beth]

We were once where you are and I slowly caved to water guns that weren't too much like a real gun and I have fought my youngest on the "need" to buy a new (fake) knife or sword every year at Halloween (no more -- he's announced he's done with that).

I smiled at "shooters" -- we heard that too. The one thing I can tell you is that no matter what you try to avoid, boys still have their imaginations and mine found that whether it be with legos or light sabers or water guns or sticks or wooden spoons or paper towel rolls or wrapping paper rolls or whatever they can get their hands on, they can make their own guns and "shooters." I have come to think they have a need for that kind of play to feel safe and prepare themselves for an adult role in a world that can be very frightening at times. That's fine as long as fantasy and fact are kept distinct.

My oldest is now 16 and, while he can lose his temper, there is nothing violent about him. My youngest is a bit back on the adolescent curve (i.e., more prone to emotional outbursts), but I am not too worried about him being violent either. They have both been taught to respect others and their property, respect nature, to love animals, to care about right and wrong, to help others and to show kindnesses. Sometimes you think it all went into outer space and sometimes they can really surprise you -- but that is adolescence.

DH and I came to realize that we couldn't turn off that need for battle play that came programmed in both of them. But we could and did try to shape their values and their character. We still kept toy weapons as toy-like as possible and had a rule that it couldn't look like a real gun. We gave in to games of laser tag, but we never bought either of them an air pellet gun. We did help them and all the friends at their birthday parties make marshmallow guns.

I'm sure each of them saw things I wouldn't let them watch or played games I wouldn't let them buy when they went to friend's houses, but they never appeared to be scarred or changed in any way because of it. I think we were on the stricter side, but not the strictest, and my oldest has expressed a little frustration but mostly respect for the decisions we've made. My youngest hasn't outright said so, but I think his feelings are similar (except for the air pellet guns he wants now and then).

So far. I'm pretty pleased, so if you are looking for permission to let him play with a plastic sword or gun instead or a pointy stick or pine cone hand grenades, I'll say it's okay. Maybe even safer sometimes. Just keep a watch on the whole picture and talk to DS if you think things are inappropriate.

[avariell]

I agree with Beth's post... and I suppose I can sum up my thoughts by saying that allowing a child to play with toy weapons in no way predisposes them to a life of violence. (not trying to diminish your concern, just trying to get my thoughts across clearly)

[claire909]

I dont think it will cause any harm but keep a watch on them.

[vbak]

I was always anti- gun when my son was little[he's 35], and I still am with the 5 grandsons. But when DS was about four, he found a way to munch his toast into the shape of a gun! Even though I was so anti gun and violent shows, I'm sure he played with weapons and watched those shows at friends' homes.

Boys are drawn to that type of play. They are loud, boisterous, competitive, and rough and tumble, but I love them!

[KristiB]

I also agree with Beth's post.

My brother and I would always shoot at each other with cap guns that looked like real guns. Do they even make those anymore?

Anyway we were pretending like we were in the old west which I'm not sure kids play these days. Todays kids are a bit different.

We also liked candy cigarettes although my mother was vehemently opposed to those.

Neither one of us are violent smokers

ETA I just looked up cap guns and holy moley they're collectable! The set we had goes for over $400! I'll have to raid moms attic as I think a lot of our toys are still up there.

[newtricks]

Neither one of us are violent smokers

thanks for the laugh.

Beth summed it up very well.

I will only add that when my son was in preschool I let him watch Power Rangers (which was the "fighting" show back then) for a while but did see him become more physical and aggressive. So we stopped watching the show but he was still allowed to play PR.

My boys are 9 and 11 and a dear sweet mom of girls friend of mine just gave us a croquet set. We have yet to play the actual game but you can often see the mallets stuck through the boys belts as they prowl around our yard playing some kind of army game. We also have every nerf gun you can possibly imagine!

[Gumbeaux]

At first I was no weapons allowed, then I bought him a sword as part of a knight costume last year and since then have allowed a lot more of these toys.

I hate swords. (at least within our family)

When kids play with guns they pretend from across the room. With swords, they swing those things near your eyes. They think just because they are made of plastic and a toy that they are safe to hit you with them.

Several kids in the family have swords and they ALL have the nasty habit of swinging them close to you face.

I'm not as woried about the social learning of violence through toys as I am about how some toys get kids "too hyped" and wreckless.

[HejazSunKat]

I also agree with Beth's post.

My brother and I would always shoot at each other with cap guns that looked like real guns. Do they even make those anymore?

Anyway we were pretending like we were in the old west which I'm not sure kids play these days. Todays kids are a bit different.

We also liked candy cigarettes although my mother was vehemently opposed to those.

Neither one of us are violent smokers

Obviously, there is a lot less latitude today about kids playing with pretend weapons or the types of role playing parents are comfortable with than there was when some of us were kids. My husband and I ran into this with our grandchildren and their parents last Christmas when DH asked for WII games for his new toy. He either wanted one that involved driving or shooting and his daughter replied "We'll get you the driving game because we don't believe in anything with guns". Oh. Okay. Made me think about the cute little shoot the ducks arcade game and the big, plastic multi-colored water guns I'd bought for the kids to play with when they come to our house. Oops....I guess we inadvertently stepped on a modern parenting toe (though she knew we had the toys and never objected). As Kristi says above, we played cowboys and indians (political correctness being a modern invention too ) and cops and robbers (and I remember the candy cigarettes also!) and we've grown up to be responsible, caring adults but that's because our parents instilled consideration for others into us throughout our childhoods. I think there's merit in limiting kids' access to the most objectionable material but I think what you and the other adults in their lives teach and model for them about how to treat people is going to be the best counterweight to the influence of a particular toy or cartoon.

[Beth]

My boys are 9 and 11 and a dear sweet mom of girls friend of mine just gave us a croquet set. We have yet to play the actual game but you can often see the mallets stuck through the boys belts as they prowl around our yard playing some kind of army game.

I can sure see that one!

Gumbeaux is right -- anything that can be swung can be dangerous. That's one reason the sticks and things can sometimes make me more nervous than the plastic things. We have a nothing above the shoulders rule whether it is swung, thrown, shot, etc. Any violation is game over and possible loss of the toys used.

My youngest had a nerf dart gun -- I think he actually got 2 one birthday. His older brother got so annoyed with getting hit that he fired all the darts into the dormer above our front door. We had warned him, but we didn't take away the gun -- we just left all the darts up there. Last year. We got too busy and didn't put the smaller Christmas tree up there, so they stayed (we have to get out a 12 foot ladder and then climb up from there). Guess we ought to try to get them this year.

[HejazSunKat]

My youngest had a nerf dart gun -- I think he actually got 2 one birthday. His older brother got so annoyed with getting hit that he fired all the darts into the dormer above our front door. We had warned him, but we didn't take away the gun -- we just left all the darts up there. Last year.

LOL Beth...wondering what the neighbors think when they're out walking their dogs...

[MKSquared]

I came into our household with my stepson having a large collection of everything violent. His favorite toys are still anything that battles with each other, and Legos are constantly being formed into enormous guns.

Thing is, at our house, we also have real guns - locked up, away from kids. Dad looks forward to the day that his son is old enough and responsible enough to shoot with him. The rule in our house has ALWAYS been that no shooters can be pointed at people or they're taken away. Period. This goes for the cowboy type, Nerf guns, or Lego "guns."

[avariell]

I came into our household with my stepson having a large collection of everything violent. His favorite toys are still anything that battles with each other, and Legos are constantly being formed into enormous guns.

Thing is, at our house, we also have real guns - locked up, away from kids. Dad looks forward to the day that his son is old enough and responsible enough to shoot with him. The rule in our house has ALWAYS been that no shooters can be pointed at people or they're taken away. Period. This goes for the cowboy type, Nerf guns, or Lego "guns."

Good point MK - I also grew up in a household with both fake and real guns, and we had the same rule about never pointing ANY gun at someone. I am sure we broke this rule with laser tag, but I don't know how else you'd play laser tag We were all educated about guns, and they lost their mystery. We also took gun safety classes at early ages, but the guns were still kept locked up.

[sparrowgrass]

Just to add a different perspective on guns. . .

I am a 4-H Youth Specialist with University of Missouri Extension, and a very popular project in 4-H now is Shooting Sports. Kids as young as 8 are taught the basics of gun safety, and practice target shooting under the close (you have no idea how close!) supervision of multiple adults. As far as I know, there has never been an injury accident involving firearms or archery equipment, aside from some pinched fingers, maybe.

I was not raised with guns, and am not a hunter, but I believe that all children should have some basic gun safety instruction.

You may not allow guns in your home, but as your kids get older and begin to socialize outside the home, you really don't know whether they will ever come in contact with a real gun. Uncle Bill may have one in the back of the closet, or Granny may be packing heat in the bottom of her purse.

I saw a program on television where children were playing in a (set up for TV) doctor's waiting room, and in one of the cabinets, there was a handgun (barrel blocked, not loaded of course.)

All of the children found the gun, all of them touched it and played with it, even though ALL of the children had been warned about guns. The parents of the kids were watching this all on a hidden camera, and they were appalled, of course. As I recall, the kids were 4-10 or so, elementary school age.

When my (ex) husband bought air rifles for my boys, when they were 8 or 10, I was not happy. But before they were allowed to even touch the guns, they had to read the instruction/safey manual, and pass their dad's safety test, and they both have been safe gun users from the beginning.

This is just food for thought for you, I am not trying to start an argument over guns, but an educated kid is a safer kid.

[sneezles]

Raised three boys, all had gun safety at an early age so like someone else mentioned it takes the mystery out of them. I never bought toy guns but they did receive them as gifts. They were only taken away when misused.

The youngest has always had a fascination with swords. He now collects them and is a member of his college fencing team. Fencing has actually helped him with his posture and he no longer walks duck-footed...so some good has come out if this fascination!

[TKay]

I totally relate to what you're going through. I have two boys (now 7 and 9), and I was absolutely anti-gun when they were younger. The problem is, you can't really stop the fascination. Like previous posters said, boys fashion guns and other weapons out of anything and everything. I eventually backed down from my strict anti-gun, anti-violence stance. No, I don't allow my kids to hit each other or get violent. But I do allow them pretend play. They are allowed to "battle" and play "war." I've read that letting them have these imaginary battles actually helps them develop conflict resolution strategies.

I also read a book written by a male psychologist about raising boys. He said he played war constantly as a child--it was his favorite game. All he wanted to be was a soldier. He didn't grow up to be one.

Sometimes I think completely forbidding something makes it that much more appealing and gives it that much more power. So I'd agree with the advice you've been given above. Supervise and be careful, but allow your ds to explore. It sounds like you're a very conscientious parent. I'm sure your gut will give you all the guidance you need--especially regarding the TV shows and movies that are allowed.

[ljt2r]

Good point MK - I also grew up in a household with both fake and real guns, and we had the same rule about never pointing ANY gun at someone. I am sure we broke this rule with laser tag, but I don't know how else you'd play laser tag We were all educated about guns, and they lost their mystery. We also took gun safety classes at early ages, but the guns were still kept locked up.

We who?!??! I never took a gun safety class in my life, not to knock on mom and dad or anything. And I can remember pointing cap guns at Chris. Maybe they got more modern w/ you guys?

[Gilgamesh37]

I'm another one who was raised in a household with real guns (only child) and was taught basic gun safety at an early age. I think I started target shooting with my Dad (with a .22 pistol and rifle) probably around age 8 maybe? And I knew from about that age that there was a loaded pistol in our home, and I knew where it was, in case of emergency--but I also knew that all the hurt in the world would rain down upon me if I screwed around with it for anything short of any emergency.

I agree with the others who say education is more effective than an outright ban--esp given all the fairly realistic, first-person-shooter video games out there.

[greta]

I'm have 3 sons, and I've grown weary of people with the "boys will be boys" mentality. Yes, my boys love to run, jump, climb, but they will also sit at the table and color, paint, craft for quite a while. I'm not going to let my boys wrestle all day just because they are boys.

But, back to the question. I don't allow toy weapons in our home. We have had many gun/weapon conversations and we will continue to have them. If we go to a friend's house who has toy guns, swords, etc, I won't stop them from playing with them--but, more often, if there is a lot of aggressive play my sons will opt out.

I am not naive, and I know my sons will be exposed to things I don't like--but, while I am in control of their playdates and who their friends are, more than likely I'll choose to have my sons play with children of people who have the same parenting ideas as I.

Unfortunately, when walking down the boy toys isles in Target, it's hard to find non-violent looking toys. We do our best avoiding them. But, I think the most important thing with all of this is open and constant communication.

From a mom who is hoping she'll raise 3 good men,
Greta

[Beth]

LOL Beth...wondering what the neighbors think when they're out walking their dogs...

There is 3 or 4 feet of wall before that window hits and no one can see a thing unless they are upstairs. We wouldn't have left them if you could see them from the street or downstairs.

[Beth]

I'm have 3 sons, and I've grown weary of people with the "boys will be boys" mentality.

Greta, I used to wonder how much of the differences in play and toys was nurture vs nature, but I am convinced their is a lot that is nature. That isn't an excuse for lax parenting or a lack of discipline though. If anything, it requires a bit more or a different kind of parenting.

My boys (the same ones that could turn anything, including the hot dog or pretzels they were eating, into a shooter) painted, colored and would do projects with me and they will still do projects. I think I posted a photo of the heart box of mini-cupcake chocolates my son made to give his girlfriend for Valentine's day. They both build robots from scratch. DH and I worked in the same profession, both cooked, cleaned and took care of them pretty equally when they were young, They were never told certain roles were for girls and others for boys (or men/women).

When he was little, DS1 told me he wanted to be Cinderella's fairy godmother one Halloween because of the beautiful dress. He changed his mind, but we didn't tell him that wasn't a boy thing. They had music and art. They had lots of activities for learning and discovery of all sorts. They don't wrestle all day and they never did. Hitting and fighting were not allowed. We nurtured their "softer side" and instilled discipline. They were never taught to want to play battle games, but they did. They also loved dinosaurs, building things, rocks, and things I found creepy (we had a year or two fascination with bats, but I learned a lot, including that bats weren't that creepy and they can come eat all my mosquitoes). They also went through belching and potty humor phases that I promise nothing were not encouraged.

As even handedly as we tried to raise them, I think boys will be boys. But anyone who is using that as an excuse for not controlling behaviors or teaching their children would probably not be a great parent of girls either. That's my 2 cents worth anyway.

[LaraW]

But, back to the question. I don't allow toy weapons in our home. We have had many gun/weapon conversations and we will continue to have them. If we go to a friend's house who has toy guns, swords, etc, I won't stop them from playing with them--but, more often, if there is a lot of aggressive play my sons will opt out.

I am watching this thread with interest because I have a son the same age as Dana's and I know we are getting to the point where we will have to address this soon.

We do not allow "shooters" either, the kids will build guns out of legos and whatnot, but I did want to ask Greta about toys where the figurine is holding a gun/sword/etc. Do you allow those? We currently don't have any but I am sure it is just a matter of time before we do.

My kids do not watch very much TV, and at that its mostly PBS type shows. I am not too worried about them watching something inappropriate just b/c its a fairly non-issue at our house as far as that goes.

[sneezles]

I'm have 3 sons, and I've grown weary of people with the "boys will be boys" mentality. Yes, my boys love to run, jump, climb, but they will also sit at the table and color, paint, craft for quite a while. I'm not going to let my boys wrestle all day just because they are boys.

Mine were the same but I will say that I did not allow wrestling at all. Had brothers who "wrestled" all the time and it drove me nuts!!! Plus it's just too easy to get out of hand. Of course we never had the WWW on the tube either. DH did take them to one "wrestling" match for a birthday. Afterwards they all talked about how fake it was. They don't watch those shows now either and they are all adults.

[Kristilyn1]

I have two boys and we didn't go crazy with the gun/sword toys---we limited the number of them and we had rules about how they were used. They were allowed though. We had light sabers and more than a few Nerf guns. I think that what you let your children play with is better off being based on WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LET THEM PLAY WITH IT. I've seen kids have a good time playing sword games and then stop and do something else. I've seen other kids play sword games and turn into an aggressive monster as a result of the overstimulation. I think you are better off watching HOW your kids interact with games/people and making your decisions based on that.

Kristi

[avariell]

We who?!??! I never took a gun safety class in my life, not to knock on mom and dad or anything. And I can remember pointing cap guns at Chris. Maybe they got more modern w/ you guys?

Are you sure they saw you point cap guns at Chris? I probably pointed (pretend) guns at people too, but I always hid it

With you and Chris they cared about not cursing. With Nick and me they cared about gun safety

[ljt2r]

Are you sure they saw you point cap guns at Chris? I probably pointed (pretend) guns at people too, but I always hid it

With you and Chris they cared about not cursing. With Nick and me they cared about gun safety

ROFLMAO! Well, as we have discussed before, we had 2 fairly different moms. I had NO idea you guys took gun safety classes (I assumed Chris did of course since he hunted).

As to your first question, let's just say I have no memory of it being an issue. But I could be not remembering well since I doubt it was my favorite game in the world.

[greta]

Beth, I don't think we're disagreeing at all. My boys are all boy, but that doesn't mean they are naturally aggressive or want to play aggressively--or, that they can't be controlled, or are loud, etc.

Lara, The only toys I've allowed that have any type of gun looking thing on them is the planet hero figures--and I'll usually remove the gun looking thing if possible. We've had the conversation about the planet heroes trying to save the solar system using their special powers (attributed to each planet). blah blah blah. They've learned the planets, their attributes, etc. Other than that, all of the other scary violent things I see in the aisles of Target, I pass up!

One of my friends has a son (almost 4) who has a tendency to hit. At camp, they had a dress in costume day, and the mother allowed her son to wear huge hulk hands to camp that day. The minute I saw him get out of his van with them on, I was sure they'd be a problem and he'd hit with them at camp. When I picked up my boys, this boy was crying to his mother because the counselors took his hulk gloves away in the beginning after hitting (my son was one of the recipients of the punch). That mother had a choice, and she made a choice to send her already prone to hitting son with hulk gloves. It is our responsibility to set our children up for success, and to help them thru making choices at an early age.

Sneezles, Hi Susan! I don't allow wrestling at all either. There are certain types of play that inevitably lead to problems. My mom didn't allow my brothers to play football, but they played many other sports. My sons won't play football.

Greta

[Beth]

Beth, I don't think we're disagreeing at all....

My sons won't play football.

Maybe not, but I may have misunderstood what you were saying. I do think guys will be guys -- at all ages, but that doesn't mean that can't be disciplined about it or most of us probably wouldn't be married.

My guys don't play football either. They saw all the crutches, casts and braces along the sidelines as well as guys being carried off when they were young. No one had to tell them that wasn't fun. They are both at all the games with the band -- where we seem to lose one horn every couple of years. Last week a trombone player fell and smushed his horn. DH said it turned into taco bell, and that was about right. Very sad, but it is being repaired and no kids were injured.

My boys are now 13 and 16, so I'm talking nearer the other end of the line than most of you. Sneezles' boys are older and have survived and succeeded too. Where we would be now is certainly not where we were at 4, 5 and 6 years old. In fact now, they have both lost interest in most any weapon toys. If they pull out the legos, they still build space ships that have weapons, but they are more into the design than the use of the weapons. It's a constant transition.

[newtricks]

My husband and I ran into this with our grandchildren and their parents last Christmas when DH asked for WII games for his new toy. He either wanted one that involved driving or shooting and his daughter replied "We'll get you the driving game because we don't believe in anything with guns". Oh. Okay. Made me think about the cute little shoot the ducks arcade game and the big, plastic multi-colored water guns I'd bought for the kids to play with when they come to our house. Oops....I guess we inadvertently stepped on a modern parenting toe (though she knew we had the toys and never objected).

modern parenting toe. Yes, it's hard to keep up! My darling mil once let 3 yr old ds watch Tom and Jerry (I know, gasp!) She just nicely turned it off when I told her it was "violent" and ds shouldn't be watching it! God bless her, she was the perfect mil. Needless to say, I've relaxed through the years.

As for video games though, I do differentiate between "shooter" games on video and the kids playing with toy guns and using their imaginations. When they ask me for certain video games I say no to the ones where they shoot a person and definitely the ones where there is blood. Of course my kids say "Mom, we're not going to turn violent and give me lots of this:) And I say "yes, but I never want you to be desensitized". I'll be hearing about that for life I bet.