Another bullying question. Advice please?

[TKay]

I know we've talked about schoolyard bullying before. I'd love your thoughts on this one.

Ds is in fourth grade (he's 10). Among other things, he takes a cookie dough Balance Bar (yum!) in his lunch every day. There's a kid who has bullied him off and on over the years. One day, this boy has no lunch, so ds offers him the Balance Bar. The boy says how much he likes it, and has asked ds to give him his Balance Bar every day since. Here's the crazy part. Ds has given it to him! (I just found out this has been going on.) I asked ds why. The bottom line is, ds is afraid to stand up to him.

More info: Ds happens to be a really tall kid, the tallest in his grade. This other boy is tiny, not physically imposing at all. The kid has threatened to punch ds in the past and dh's advice to him was, let him. Tell the boy you're not giving in and he can go ahead and punch all he wants.

I gave ds my own thoughts today. I said, it's really important that you stand up to him because you need to do this for you. It has nothing to do with the other boy or the Balance Bar. It's about you taking care of you.

But how exactly does he do that? Any thoughts? I told him to firmly say no and simply not give him the food. If the kid threatens, let him. Ds has been hiding his Balance Bar, sitting by the school supervisors and essentially avoiding the bully as best he can. But I think it's far more important for him to stand his ground.

Thoughts? Any specific advice? I appreciate anything you have to say. TIA.

Btw, I am always surprised when things like this happen to ds. He is a big kid, super smart and confident. I would peg him as someone who'd push other kids around more than I'd expect him to be on the receiving end. I've always been very clear how him bullying someone else would never be tolerated. Go figure.

[Robyn1007]

Would invoking concern for other kids work with DS? As in "If you stand up to this kid he may not bully someone else in the future who can't stand up to him."

[Cookin4Love]

As an assistant principal, I deal with this stuff all the time. It seems that what you're really asking is what is the best way for your son to address his concern. My suggestion would be to see if your school has any type of mediation program (we have a very effective peer mediation program here) or if there is a counselor, character coach, or administrator who would act as a mediator. I spend more time doing that for kids than I do on actual discipline--and I'm not complaining. Basically, it would be an adult involved as a neutral party to help move the conversation along, ask thought provoking questions, dialogue about choices, and provide a safe environment. Honestly, I discourage kids from trying to handle this type of thing completely on their own, as they really don't have the skills to know what to do if things go badly.

I can tell you that I have about a 99% success rate in resolving conflicts in this manner.

[ADM]

How important is it that your son has his Balance Bar at lunch? Could he have it for an afternoon snack, instead?

If there isn't the Balance Bar in his lunchbag then there is no issue and he can truthfully say, "My mother didn't pack one in my lunch."

If you choose to go the other route, explain that what has been happening is extortion and extortion is unacceptable. It would be interesting to know what threats this other boy made or makes to your son?

[beacooker]

My impulse is that you've given great advice to him, and now your work is done on that subject. If your son was small and the other boy was big, or you truly had some concern of your son being hurt by the other boy, I might think you should do more, but since it doesn't sound like this is a concern, I think you just have to wait and let your DS decide if he wants to stand up for himself or not. The only other thing I would say is for you to be sure to start pointing out instances of people standing up for themselves (without directly linking it to your DS's situation), so your DS can see examples of it.

And from what I've understood of your post, I think its a stretch to call what the other kid is doing 'bullying'. ETA: I read your OP as saying that one time the other boy threatened to punch your son. If it is something that happened frequently, I might feel differently.

How nice of your son to offer his bar on the day the other kid had no lunch.

[TKay]

The only other thing I would say is for you to be sure to start pointing out instances of people standing up for themselves (without directly linking it to your DS's situation), so your DS can see examples of it.

And from what I've understood of your post, I think its a stretch to call what the other kid is doing 'bullying'. ETA: I read your OP as saying that one time the other boy threatened to punch your son. If it is something that happened frequently, I might feel differently.

Great advice about pointing out people standing up for themselves. TY. As for the bullying, you're right. This isn't a major instance of bullying. It's just that, yes, the boy has threatened ds in the past. Specifically, with punching him. Ds hasn't let the threat even be verbalized this time. He just gives the kid the Balance Bar.

Robyn - Great point!

Cookin - You know, I don't know if we even have a mediator at school (well, aside from the principal). I'll check into that. (Two elementary schools merged this year, so we have all new leadership--new principal, new staff.) I haven't talked to teachers or the principal about this because ds would hate that. He doesn't want to look like a wimp who tattles. He didn't even want me to tell dh. You make a good point, however, about the kids being ill-equipped.

ADM - I think I'd tend to go with the latter, teach him to handle this situation rather than just avoid it by having the BB after school (which he obviously could do).

As another bit of information, the boy who'd bullying has a rotten homelife. His mother drinks, and I know he's been in quite of bit of troublesome situations. He used to be a really sweet kid (and he's always friendly and smiling when he sees me). I just want to teach my son the best way to handle things.

[Gumbeaux]

There's a kid who has bullied him off and on over the years.

When I read this sentence I thought to myself anything that follows can't be more significant than this.

I would be in the principal's office every day until this stopped. If nothing changed I would go to the school board (if this is a public school). If it continued, IMHO, I would change schools. IMHO, nothing is more important than the emotional development of a child.

[BucknellAlum]

This sounds so familiar. Fourth grade seems to be the year for this kind of thing for boys. My DS was exactly like yours - very tall and a good kid, but he would never stand up for himself. One time he actually got in trouble because he was with a group of boys who were picking on another and he did not intervene to stop it. The principal actually told me he did nothing wrong, but she thought he should have tried to stop the teasing! (That's a whole 'nother thread)

I like your idea of encouraging him to stand up for himself, but not making a big deal about it. This gets across the idea that he needs to stand his ground because later on other challenges (smoking, drinking, etc) will come along and he needs to stand firm on his values.

FWIW, in middle school I still saw my son act in ways that suggested lower self-esteem (a kid would throw his trash on the ground and then tell my son to pick it up and put it in the trashcan - and DS would!) but now in HS he is able to stand up for himself, and just as important, figure out what kind of kids he wants to hang around and be friends with. That kind of situation appears to be in the past for us, so I am hoping that it will also resolve itself eventually for you too.

I wouldn't hesitate to mention this to the teacher too, so the aide can keep an eye on this kid at lunch and help intervene for you son as well.

[VAcooker]

.And from what I've understood of your post, I think its a stretch to call what the other kid is doing 'bullying'. ETA: I read your OP as saying that one time the other boy threatened to punch your son. If it is something that happened frequently, I might feel differently

Wow. So, it's not "bullying" to you unless it happens "frequently" (as concerns the threat to punch the OP's son) and the fact that the OP's son clearly is intimidated by this boy (based upon this boy's past behavior and perhaps based upon the feeling he gets when around this kid) means it is a "stretch" to call it bullying! Holy Cow. There is no other more appropriate term for this, other than bullying. Whether this boy is threatened once or every day, that is bullying. The fact that the OP's son feels threatened by this kid is significant. I am sure this kid realizes the power he has over the OP's son and I would imagine is taking full advantage of it.

I think Cookin4love's advice was spot-on.

ETA: There is good web-site on bullying from the US Dept. of Health & Human Services (www.stopbullyingnow.hrsa.gov) that you may want to take a look at that has some kid-friendly pages and some tips for adults..

[oct2189]

Tkay, did your son convey exactly why he gives it to him? It doesn't sound like he's necessarily intimidated by this kid, but maybe he feels sorry for him because of his home life.
I think what Robyn said is important. If you tell your son that he's teaching this boy that intimidation is an effective way of dealing with people, and that attitude will hurt the boy and get him into more trouble down the line, your son may be able to redirect his compassion.

[beacooker]

Wow. So, it's not "bullying" to you unless it happens "frequently" (as concerns the threat to punch the OP's son) and the fact that the OP's son clearly is intimidated by this boy (based upon this boy's past behavior and perhaps based upon the feeling he gets when around this kid) means it is a "stretch" to call it bullying! Holy Cow. There is no other more appropriate term for this, other than bullying. Whether this boy is threatened once or every day, that is bullying. The fact that the OP's son feels threatened by this kid is significant. I am sure this kid realizes the power he has over the OP's son and I would imagine is taking full advantage of it.

Um, ok. The fact is, none of us are there when this lunchtime incident happens. When you read it, you hear it in your mind as the kid saying menacingly 'Give me your bar.' When I read it, I hear it as 'Can I have your bar?'. I have no idea which one of us, or either of us, is right. And I have many times heard boys (including my own) say to other boys 'Do what I say or I'll punch you in the face' or something similar when they are playing and nothing comes of it - the kids are just testing to see if the strategy works. Again, I have no idea of the context of the punching threat, but it doesn't sound like TKay and her DH found it very worrisome.

Either way, yes, the other boy is absolutely taking advantage of TKay's son, and he will continue to do so unless her son learns to stand up for himself. Personally, given the way I've read the story (which, again, may not be correct), I think I would just work on encouraging my kids to learn to stand up for themselves. If her DS tells the boy no, and the problem escalates, then I certainly think further action is necessary. But (again, as I'm reading the story, which may be wrong) I think it would send a bad message to her son for her to get 'higher powers' involved unless her son has told the other boy no, and the problem escalated.

TKay knows the situation best, and I trust her to make the right decision. I was just throwing out another POV, as she requested.

[TKay]

You have given me lots to think about. I enjoy hearing other people's feelings and impressions on the topic.

I asked ds what happened today and probed a bit more deeply. Turns out, ds hasn't really expressed to the boy that he doesn't want to share his lunch. He's just given him the Balance Bar to keep the peace. When I asked why, he said because this other boy lies and will say things like, "(Ds) punched me!" Ds said the kid has in the past made red marks on his arm, worked up some fake tears and then told the supervisors that someone hit him. I didn't hear about that incident when it happened, so I can't say for sure whether or not it's entirely accurate. What I can tell you is that ds IS intimidated by this boy. He simply does not want to cross him.

Ds said he hid his Balance Bar to eat later and told the boy he didn't have one today. I told ds that I thought it would be better for him to really express himself, to let the boy know he's not happy about sharing his lunch and will not be doing so any longer. I reiterated that I thought ds needed to do this for himself. He says he will.

VACooker - Thanks for the web addy. I'll check it out.

[TKay]

FWIW, in middle school I still saw my son act in ways that suggested lower self-esteem (a kid would throw his trash on the ground and then tell my son to pick it up and put it in the trashcan - and DS would!) but now in HS he is able to stand up for himself, and just as important, figure out what kind of kids he wants to hang around and be friends with. That kind of situation appears to be in the past for us, so I am hoping that it will also resolve itself eventually for you too.

Thanks for sharing this experience. This has been a concern of mine. I so want ds to make good choices in friends. When he hangs out with kids like this one, or other boys that I kind of question, I worry he'll choose to hang out with the "wrong" crowd. I'm glad your ds didn't let himself get pushed around and end up hanging out with kids who weren't good for him.

[Kathy B]

Tkay, I think learning to stand up for yourself and handle difficult people and situations is an ongoing process. A while back on one of these threads, ellery posted a link to a site that had some great info. I have used it to talk with my own kids, and they are both older than your DS and fairly competent at handling such situations, but things still come up occasionally, especially for DD.

Here is the link if you want to check it out...

Dealing with Bullies

I think it takes lots of conversations, pointing out other people and situations, and then just experience to get it all figured out. Shoot, we all sometimes deal with bullies, even as adults!

He'll get the hang of it.

[VAcooker]

Um, ok. The fact is, none of us are there when this lunchtime incident happens. When you read it, you hear it in your mind as the kid saying menacingly 'Give me your bar.' When I read it, I hear it as 'Can I have your bar?'. I have no idea which one of us, or either of us, is right. And I have many times heard boys (including my own) say to other boys 'Do what I say or I'll punch you in the face' or something similar when they are playing and nothing comes of it - the kids are just testing to see if the strategy works. Again, I have no idea of the context of the punching threat, but it doesn't sound like TKay and her DH found it very worrisome. ...

With all due respect, I guess this is what I have a problem with. It's attitudes like the one you are espousing that make it difficult for the victims of bullying to get adults and others to take this seriously. We do not have to "be there" to ascertain the "context" of what is being said in that lunchroom to know it is bullying. Taken from the web-site I posted, bullying can take many forms such as:

Physical bullying, such as hitting or punching
Verbal bullying, such as teasing or name-calling
Nonverbal or emotional bullying, such as intimidating someone through gestures or social exclusion

Whether this kid is verbally threatening to punch TKay's son or whether there is other emotional bullying going on here--the result is the same--the boy is being bullied. Clearly from everything the OP has posted, her son is at the very least being emotionally bullied, as well as physically bullied on occasion. Unfortunately, not all adults take this seriously. They think, "boys will be boys", this is normal, etc. As the web-site I cited states, bullying is an intentionally aggressive behavior involving an imbalance of power or strength. Kids who are bullied have a very difficult time defending themselves. We do not have to be there to hear what is going on to judge this. This smacks of bullying. To say otherwise is a cop-out. It is not ok to threaten to punch someone to get what we want or to emotionally bully another child.

TKay, unfortunately not all adults take bullying seriously and I hope that if you ultimately decide to get the school administrators involved that it will be addressed to your satisfaction. There is no excuse or justification for bullying. I agree with Cookin4love who pointed out that she would discourage kids from dealing with this on their own, since they typically do not have the skills to do so. Thus, I would think about getting the school involved.

I wish you the best in resolving this. As you probably can see from my posts, bullying is a hot topic for me. I have seen too much of it go on and too much of it ignored by adults. I spent a good part of my childhood defending the victims of bullying and saw first hand how damaging it was to the victims.

I think it is great that you are taking this seriously and supporting your son through this. My heart goes out to your son! Please keep us posted and feel free to PM me if you ever need another venue to vent!

[Kathy B]

It's attitudes like the one you are espousing that make it difficult for the victims of bullying to get adults and others to take this seriously. We do not have to "be there" to ascertain the "context" of what is being said in that lunchroom to know it is bullying.

Clearly from everything the OP has posted, her son is at the very least being emotionally bullied, as well as physically bullied on occasion. We do not have to be there to hear what is going on to judge this. This smacks of bullying. To say otherwise is a cop-out.

I have to say I thought the same thing as beacooker when I read the original description of the incident. Did the other boy threaten Tkay's son, or did he just ask for the bar? After all, he was GIVEN one once before, and her son giving them to him daily may mean he just doesn't like them but his mom keeps putting them in his lunch. The "intimidation" could be completely one-sided with Tkay's son remembering other things this boy has said in the past to other kids and thinking that might be the response he gets if he says no. Just because the other boy has a"reputation" doesn't mean he is bullying every time he does something. Without actually being there to judge the context, as beacooker pointed out, one cannot really know how things went without further investigation. I am sure the last thing the other child needs is for people to start accusing him of something before anyone checks into the details.

I think you were wise to probe further Tkay, and then to talk through possible ways to address it with your boy. All of these things are learning experiences, and our kids learn from our reactions and how we approach problems as much as they do from what we say.

BTW, Tkay, what was the response your son got when he told the boy he didn't have a bar that day?

[Kristilyn1]

Wow. So, it's not "bullying" to you unless it happens "frequently" (as concerns the threat to punch the OP's son) and the fact that the OP's son clearly is intimidated by this boy (based upon this boy's past behavior and perhaps based upon the feeling he gets when around this kid) means it is a "stretch" to call it bullying! Holy Cow. There is no other more appropriate term for this, other than bullying. Whether this boy is threatened once or every day, that is bullying. The fact that the OP's son feels threatened by this kid is significant. I am sure this kid realizes the power he has over the OP's son and I would imagine is taking full advantage of it.

I think Cookin4love's advice was spot-on.

ETA: There is good web-site on bullying from the US Dept. of Health & Human Services (www.stopbullyingnow.hrsa.gov) that you may want to take a look at that has some kid-friendly pages and some tips for adults..

As shown later in the posts....what this boy is doing in this particular situation is NOT bullying. Whether the boy is a bully or not....that really is open to interpretation, but that really wasn't the original question. I work in a PreK-4th grade school...working with special needs kids, so I spend my whole day, every day helping kids deal with social situations. Specifically, helping autistic children relate to "typical" peers, so I have a ton of experience with all kinds of children and how they are in social situations. I say this, because while I am a parent and have that perception of children and their behavior---I have another perception of children from seeing them in the situations that they have problems with. I should also add that the school I work at is in a fairly wealthy school district with very involved parents. ( I only bring it up to say that for the most part, the vast majority of children here do not deal with issues like homelessness, hunger or the other very real issues that make it extremely difficult to navigate life). That said, a ridiculously high percentage of social problems at school are labeled, by the children, as bullying. The percentage of children that won't even tell another child to stop a dangerous, annoying or painful behavior is surprisingly high--I'd put it at at least 50%. I can't even tell you how many times I see a child pushing another child too hard during a game of tag and the other child will not indicate by body language or verbally that the other person is hurting them. The first line of adult intervention at school almost always involves the adult witness or mediator to ask the question "did you tell him/her that what they were doing hurt?" The answer, sadly is almost always "no". Whenever a child comes over to tell on another child.....inevitably the very first thing the child does to indicate that anything is wrong....unless it is something that is immediately dangerous or someone is actually hurt, the adult will help the child tell the other person exactly what is wrong.....and THEY have to do it. Advocating for yourself is not just a good idea, it's a life skill that is necessary. www.kelsoschoice.net is a great program that we use at school that basically gives children a choice of interventions based on whether the problem is a "big problem" or a "small problem". Unfortunately, too often, parents simply come in to school and report that their child is being bullied....when in some cases that the child is either perceiving a situation the wrong way or lacks the social skills to handle the issue. I don't want to give the idea that I don't think bullying exists. It most certainly does. I've been the victim of it myself. I've seen kids doing it at our school. However, (IMO) because children today don't socialize the way we used to....their social interactions have been parent/adult guided since birth and they miss out on the opportunity to figure out and navigate the social hierarchy that exists....for good and bad. Remember the days of just going out into the neighborhood and playing with whatever kids were outside? With no adult in sight? They become used to seeking out adults to help them in every situation. It is our duty to stop slapping the "bully" label on every single situation and teach kids how to work things out while they are young. It's really for their own good. I have the same issues with my 11 year old. Unfortunately, he perceives every situation based on how it "feels" instead of what actually happened. We work on this all the time. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with your child...I know very few children who are good advocates for themselves at the elementary level. It's very easy to decide that the other kid must be the problem, when we can't figure out why our kids don't just do the obvious, right thing....but don't assume that. The kid who has no problem telling you off when you send him to his room, might freeze up when a kid 4 years younger cuts him in line. I'd definitely ask about intervention/mediation at your school because that will help him in future situations, not just this one.

Good luck.

Kristi

[TKay]

I don't have time this morning for a lengthy response, but I will say this. My ds is intimidated by the other boy and that is why he gives him the Balance Bar. I think there's a misconception that bullying is always physical. The bottom line is that ds does not want to share his lunch but feels he has no power in the situation. Does he need to speak up? Yes. Is it being intimidated? Yes.

You may not define that in the strictest sense as bullying, but I do.

[Loremma]

I totally agree with you that it is bullying. You said he has bullied your ds in the past, now again verbally. Just intimidating him is all it takes now that the pattern has been established. You know your ds and his behavior, and if he's doing this and wants to stop but feels he can't, that's bullying.

My first instinct would be to get in the other boys face and tell him to knock it off, but that wouldn't do your son any good. He does need to stand up for himself maybe you could role play his options at home?

Good luck resolving this issue.

[beacooker]

I don't have time this morning for a lengthy response, but I will say this. My ds is intimidated by the other boy and that is why he gives him the Balance Bar. I think there's a misconception that bullying is always physical. The bottom line is that ds does not want to share his lunch but feels he has no power in the situation. Does he need to speak up? Yes. Is it being intimidated? Yes.

You may not define that in the strictest sense as bullying, but I do.

I have the feeling bullying is more of a "degree of" kind of thing rather than an "is/isn't" one.

FWIW, I think your son came up with a pretty decent solution for this particular problem with the boy. But obviously the work needs to continue to help him figure out ways to handle future intimidation from this boy or others.

It sounds like what is most intimidating to your son is the threat of the boy lying and saying your son did things that he didn't do - is that correct? If so, I wonder if your son (with you with him, if he wants) could talk to his teacher, and let her know that the boy has made up stories like that in the past, and that he then uses that to intimidate other kids. The point of this wouldn't be to re-litigate the past and get the other kid in trouble, or to get the teacher to jump in and make sure the kid doesn't try to intimidate anyone. The point would be to give your son a bit of peace of mind that his side of the story would be heard if the other boy did decide to make up stories about him in the future. That way, perhaps your son could gain some confidence about standing up to him when the next need arises. Of course, this sort of depends on your son's reputation with the teacher, and the other boy's as well.

[TKay]

BTW, Tkay, what was the response your son got when he told the boy he didn't have a bar that day?

Finally getting back to you on this. When ds tells the boy he doesn't have a bar, the boy leaves him alone. Ds told me that yesterday, he hid his Balance Bar so the boy would go away. I keep pressing him to stand up for himself. I really feel it's important that rather than avoid the issue (by pretending he doesn't have the food), he needs to put an end to the problem by standing up for himself.

FWIW, I've maintained an open dialogue about this with ds. Turns out the boy typically sits next to him at lunch and says, "You know the drill, (ds). Give me the Balance Bar." Ds tries to avoid him and sit with other kids. But because of the classes, ds is usually seated before the boy is let out for lunch (they're in different classrooms).

[newcook]

TKay, I really feel for your son on this. I am one of those people who is very easily intimidated so I completely understand how he feels. To me the way the boy approaches him is definitely bullying. I think your keeping that open communication is great.

If I might suggest something from personal experience of what helps me. When you speak to him, please continue to explain that giving in will not solve "his" part of the problem, and that the only way to really find relief is to stand up for himself. It is so difficult to do, but what a relief afterwards.

May I also suggest role playing? First play your son while he plays the bully, playing every kind of standing up for himself you can think of. If he can find an option in what you role play that he can picture himself doing, half the battle is won. You will know you are making progress when his excuses start to diminish.

Then you play the bully. Be tough about it, don't give in unless you really feel it (you can't fool him because he is really living this). My best suggestion would be that when the boy says you know the drill..., your son pulls out the Balance Bar, looks the boy straight in the eye, and bites right into it, eating it completely while looking the boy in the eye and saying nothing. I don't think he could do it unless he saw you do it several times first.

I really encourage you to be patient with this and to not give up.

[TKay]

Newcook, thank you for your thoughts. I really appreciate the suggestions.

I'm happy to report that when I asked ds what happened today, he said he simply told the boy no. I said, "And then what?" "Nothing." "You mean, (Name) said nothing?" "No, he just goes, 'Oh, maaaaan!' " That was the end of it.

I told ds how proud I am of him. But to be honest, I can't really tell if that story is completely accurate. Ds is tired of me asking about the Balance Bar situation. I kind of wonder if he's just trying to get me to shut up about it. I will stay on top of it, however. I think it's so important that he learn to protect himself.

Thanks again for all your thoughts on this. Please understand I appreciate all perspectives (even the ones that don't necessarily ring true for me). I'll post again if anything new develops.

[avariell]

As an assistant principal, I deal with this stuff all the time. It seems that what you're really asking is what is the best way for your son to address his concern. My suggestion would be to see if your school has any type of mediation program (we have a very effective peer mediation program here) or if there is a counselor, character coach, or administrator who would act as a mediator. I spend more time doing that for kids than I do on actual discipline--and I'm not complaining. Basically, it would be an adult involved as a neutral party to help move the conversation along, ask thought provoking questions, dialogue about choices, and provide a safe environment. Honestly, I discourage kids from trying to handle this type of thing completely on their own, as they really don't have the skills to know what to do if things go badly.

I can tell you that I have about a 99% success rate in resolving conflicts in this manner.

I admit I haven't read all of the replies, but when I saw this I was totally floored to realize that I had completely forgotten that I was a peer mediator in school - lol. The saddest part is that it was a complete joke. It worked in that kids went through the paces to get out of punishment, but no one took it seriously (including me honestly... I felt like it was super lame at the time). I personally wouldn't recommend peer mediation as a solution to anything (which is not to say that an adult mediator wouldn't work). It was awkward and uncomfortable and the solutions often seemed faked or just like you were going thru the paces. It's nice to hear mediation is working at your school cookin4love, but I just don't have a lot of faith in it from my experience...

[TKay]

You know, I didn't think of this before, but your talk of peer mediation has me wondering. The principal at our school (who is new to me) said they like to get the students involved in determining the correct consequences for certain behaviors. I wonder if that's the same thing as peer mediation? I'll have to look into it.

Cookin4Love, maybe this is another thread, but I'm curious as to how the rest of your school runs. We are currently having a lot of issues with our principal. I know I've mentioned this elsewhere, but one elementary school in our district was closed at the end of last year due to declining enrollment. As a result, that school's student body was merged with ours. The closed school's principal is now in charge of the expanded student body. What seems to be happening is she has that softer, let's work it out on an individual basis approach to discipline (and everything else). While I understand that method in principle, it's not going over well with this large student body. The result is a campus that feels very loosey goosey (official term) and out of control. I'm wondering what the overall approach is at your school. Like I said, maybe a discussion for another thread?