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Thread: The Duggar's - again!

  1. #1

    The Duggar's - again!

    The cardiologist's diet: - If it tastes good spit it out!

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    "We are so excited," Michelle Duggar told TODAY Moms before the broadcast. Now three and a half months pregnant, the mom of 19 says she was actually surprised to discover that she's expecting again at 45. "I was not thinking that God would give us another one, and we are just so grateful."

    “The precious life that we see here is not a coincidence,” Michelle Duggar told TODAY last summer. “I just know that it is a miracle. I don’t take that for granted. I know that God is the one who gives life, and I’m just so grateful and thankful. We would welcome another if He saw fit, but we’ll wait and see.”



    This makes me speechless. All the comments about "God giving them" another baby. I hope all the infertile or couple who have lost babies don't have to read those comments.

    If you want to not use birth control, fine, that is your choice. But please DO NOT proclaim that "God" determines that you are to have more children. That is incredibly painful to the people whom God apparently decided should not have children. Or whose children got cancer and died, or who were still born, or died of SIDS. How can she say that God gave her babies life, when so many other people have endured unspeakable heartache.

    Sorry for the rant, but this really touched a nerve.
    Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.

  3. #3
    I want to preface this by saying that I find the Duggars insufferable - and I do understand why you find their pious sense of God "selecting" them as insufferable.

    But - and I ask this question in all sincerity - isn't that the nature of this kind of belief in God as an entity that controls one's destiny.

    I'm not a believer but I hear and read it all the time - God doesn't give more than you can handle; there is a "plan"; God "wanted/needed the person or child. Some of these mega churches even preach a modern form of Social Darwinism in terms of God providing material wealth to believers - I guess as part of his plan for those who are chosen.

    I don't know why but it all makes me think of Langston Hughes' poem

    “Sometimes a crumb falls
    From the tables of joy,
    Sometimes a bone
    Is flung.

    To some people
    Love is given,
    To others
    Only heaven.”

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    reported SPAM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amarante View Post
    I want to preface this by saying that I find the Duggars insufferable - and I do understand why you find their pious sense of God "selecting" them as insufferable.

    But - and I ask this question in all sincerity - isn't that the nature of this kind of belief in God as an entity that controls one's destiny.

    I'm not a believer but I hear and read it all the time - God doesn't give more than you can handle; there is a "plan"; God "wanted/needed the person or child. Some of these mega churches even preach a modern form of Social Darwinism in terms of God providing material wealth to believers - I guess as part of his plan for those who are chosen.

    I don't know why but it all makes me think of Langston Hughes' poem

    “Sometimes a crumb falls
    From the tables of joy,
    Sometimes a bone
    Is flung.

    To some people
    Love is given,
    To others
    Only heaven.”
    Well, my opinion is there are a lot of Christian churches that would claim the Duggars position as "bad theology." I am Christian and I have heard my pastor disagree with the notion of "God never giving you more than you can handle" (which implies that the strongest and most faithful will endure the most!)

    I don't think most Christian denominations preach that we are like puppets, being led by God. He gave us free will - why would God allow you to sin, if that is the logic you follow?

    I do often hear people say things like, "Well, we'll see what God has in store" in response to someone losing a job, or needing to move, etc. I can reconcile that as just believing that you will come out of things okay, whether you think God intervened or whether you just made the best of a bad situation.

    And I know this is a sore subject for me, but I cannot wrap my head around God "giving" children to some families. The same way I cannot wrap my head around the idea that God "saved" my sickly relative when yours ended up dying.
    Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by BucknellAlum View Post
    Well, my opinion is there are a lot of Christian churches that would claim the Duggars position as "bad theology." I am Christian and I have heard my pastor disagree with the notion of "God never giving you more than you can handle" (which implies that the strongest and most faithful will endure the most!)

    I don't think most Christian denominations preach that we are like puppets, being led by God. He gave us free will - why would God allow you to sin, if that is the logic you follow?

    I do often hear people say things like, "Well, we'll see what God has in store" in response to someone losing a job, or needing to move, etc. I can reconcile that as just believing that you will come out of things okay, whether you think God intervened or whether you just made the best of a bad situation.

    And I know this is a sore subject for me, but I cannot wrap my head around God "giving" children to some families. The same way I cannot wrap my head around the idea that God "saved" my sickly relative when yours ended up dying.
    Sorry I wasn't clearer as I don't think all Christian theology has this kind of belief system in terms of God controlling. Most of the more sophisticated theologies (sorry for that bit of judgment) have dealt with these kinds of issues - free will; evil; bad things happened to the good and good happening to the evil as part of their belief system.

    My comments were directed to the kind of fundie sects which the Duggars are a part of and I often hear that kind of twaddle from people like them - I'm more familiar with the Southern California mega-churches than the Duggars back woods barefoot and pregnant (literally) kind of teachings.

    I was agreeing with you because it rubs me the wrong way whenever I hear this kind of thing but I hear it in more than just the Duggar context.

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    Didn't she have some major complications with the last one ending with an emergency early c-section and an extended stay in the NICU?

    You'd think after that and being 45 she'd be done.

    As for the God comments... Whatever. I consider the source and don't put much stock into what they are saying.

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    I knew you were agreeing with me, Amarante. I just can't let this go when I hear about it, I wish I could because it would be better for my blood pressure but I just can't.
    Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.

  9. #9
    The last baby was delivered 3 months early, at about a pound and half, as I recall, because the owner of that ****** (v a g i n a is a bad word? Who knew?) that IS a clown car had pre-eclampsia and gall bladder problems. Official word is that the youngest is a 'healthy toddler'--I wonder about that.

    So, let's do it again, and see how damaged the next infant is.

    And let's watch to see who gets to take care of this next baby--I have never seen such sad looking teens and preteens--they did not chose to have a child, they had one thrust upon them, so mama could pump out another one.

    Sorry, these folks push allll my buttons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrowgrass View Post
    The last baby was delivered 3 months early, at about a pound and half, as I recall, because the owner of that ****** (v a g i n a is a bad word? Who knew?) that IS a clown car had pre-eclampsia and gall bladder problems. Official word is that the youngest is a 'healthy toddler'--I wonder about that.

    So, let's do it again, and see how damaged the next infant is.

    And let's watch to see who gets to take care of this next baby--I have never seen such sad looking teens and preteens--they did not chose to have a child, they had one thrust upon them, so mama could pump out another one.

    Sorry, these folks push allll my buttons.
    While I agree with your thoughts I think calling a woman's uterus a clown car is rather offensive. We can get our point across better when we do not use such insults.

    Do I believe she has acted in a completely irresponsible and selfish manner? Yes. Does she treat the older children as house help instead of family members? Yes. Do her methods of *discipline* disgust me? Yes. But I'm not willing to make such a derogatory comment to make my opinion known.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amarante View Post
    Sorry I wasn't clearer as I don't think all Christian theology has this kind of belief system in terms of God controlling. Most of the more sophisticated theologies (sorry for that bit of judgment) have dealt with these kinds of issues - free will; evil; bad things happened to the good and good happening to the evil as part of their belief system.
    What she said.

    However, I do share the belief that all life is God-given, and I think most Christians do. I think that's what Michelle Duggar was trying to say - not necessarily that God controls everything. But I may be wrong.... (and I'm certainly not defending her irresponsibility in any way!)

    I presume that Michelle Duggar must not have breastfed her children for very long, since exclusive breastfeeding prevents ovulation for many months. Didn't God give her breasts for something other than sex?
    The motive power of democracy is love. ~ Henri Bergson

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClaraB View Post
    What she said.

    However, I do share the belief that all life is God-given, and I think most Christians do. I think that's what Michelle Duggar was trying to say - not necessarily that God controls everything. But I may be wrong.... (and I'm certainly not defending her irresponsibility in any way!)

    I presume that Michelle Duggar must not have breastfed her children for very long, since exclusive breastfeeding prevents ovulation for many months. Didn't God give her breasts for something other than sex?
    I think believing that all life is God-given is not the same as thinking God gave YOU this particular baby at this time because "He saw fit" as Michelle Duggar put it. I do believe she is thinking that God literally chose to give her another baby, and that is the concept I have a problem with.
    Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClaraB View Post
    What she said.
    I presume that Michelle Duggar must not have breastfed her children for very long, since exclusive breastfeeding prevents ovulation for many months. Didn't God give her breasts for something other than sex?
    While I'm not defending what is beginning to look like breeding for publicity and profit, I can tell you from personal experience that exclusive breastfeeding does NOT always prevent ovulation for many months. My girls are 16 months apart, and I was absolutely breastfeeding when I became pregnant.

    On the other hand, I know for a fact God did not make me pregnant. It was my husband . . . and my complete lack of birth control because I assumed that breastfeeding would keep me from ovulating for many months.
    I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day. ~E.B. White

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    Duggars

    What if something happened to either her or him
    (god forbid) who will take care of all these children.....the state!!!! She should think of this
    before having another child.
    The children need there parents around!!!!!!!
    V.

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    Everything I have read or seen about this family points out that they are financially solvent and are not relying on anyway on the government for assistance.

    Here is one blurb
    As a family project the Duggars built a 7000 sq. ft. home debt free! Both Jim Bob and Michelle are licensed real estate agents.They often host and facilitate the Jim Sammon’s Financial Freedom Seminar. Jim Bob served in the Arkansas House of Representatives from 1999 to 2003 and was a candidate for the U.S. Senate in 2002.

    Their faith tells them not to use birth control, so they don't. They are raising a huge family, have turned it into a reality show. At least they are finding time to have a regular sex life they must be doing something right.
    Democrats are Sexy. Who has ever heard of a good piece of elephant?

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    Back to add a link to why they don't use birth control. Not their church's teaching...it is based on a personal experience

    Why they have a large family
    Democrats are Sexy. Who has ever heard of a good piece of elephant?

  17. #17
    Does their faith also prevent them from having her tubes tied and/or his being snipped?

    I am not asking from a snarky view of why are they procreating so abundantly but from a basic common sense point of view. She had a difficult pregnancy with a child in NICU - what rational human beings wouldn't want to risk child's health/mother's health.

    Circling back to the original question, this is where this kind of blind faith raises issues to me in terms of their belief as a "test of faith". I often wonder what happens to people like this when something bad actually happens since they believe that they are divinely blessed by a god that actually takes an interest in their insignificant lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BucknellAlum View Post
    I think believing that all life is God-given is not the same as thinking God gave YOU this particular baby at this time because "He saw fit" as Michelle Duggar put it. I do believe she is thinking that God literally chose to give her another baby, and that is the concept I have a problem with.
    Here is Michelle in her own words, from tbb's link:

    "In fact we agreed we would stop using any form of birth control and let God decide how many children we would have. Just a couple of months later, Michelle became pregnant with twins. A double blessing!"

    So my friend could theoretically say, "in fact WE agreed we would stop using any form of birth control and let God decide how many children we would have. Just 25 years later, it was apparent God would not let us have any."
    Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.

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    I'm not trying to be difficult (and I definetly don't believe this)...but I do think many people think God does decide many things (outcome of football games, election results, favored nations, etc). So, it isn't a stretch for someone to praise God for favorable outcomes and to possibly become disappointed in God when the outcomes are unfavorable.

    Somewhere I read the following thought:
    God answers all prayers, sometimes the answer is no.

    When someone is infertile, does it really matter why/how come? Isn't the goal to figure out a way to have a child whether it is through infertility treatments, adoption, fostering, or a miracle?
    Democrats are Sexy. Who has ever heard of a good piece of elephant?

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    These folks would NOT have a lucrative tv show if they were not white, christians. If they were black Muslims, no way. Would America watch a family building an "army for Allah" rather than an "army for Jesus" as they've often claimed? Nope, I don't think so.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by tbb113 View Post
    I'm not trying to be difficult (and I definetly don't believe this)...but I do think many people think God does decide many things (outcome of football games, election results, favored nations, etc).
    Today's headline - "Cain says God persuaded him to run for president. GOP's Cain says God persuaded him to run, keeps silent on sexual harassment allegations."

    http://www.centurylink.net/news/read...org%3E&ps=1018
    The cardiologist's diet: - If it tastes good spit it out!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADM View Post
    Today's headline - "Cain says God persuaded him to run for president. GOP's Cain says God persuaded him to run, keeps silent on sexual harassment allegations."

    http://www.centurylink.net/news/read...org%3E&ps=1018
    SO God didn't tell him to sexually harass those women, or did He just tell him to keep silent on the allegations?
    Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristena View Post
    These folks would NOT have a lucrative tv show if they were not white, christians. If they were black Muslims, no way. Would America watch a family building an "army for Allah" rather than an "army for Jesus" as they've often claimed? Nope, I don't think so.
    Interesting that you should say this - apparently TLC will be airing a reality show about Muslim-American families. I found the story at NPR: A look at five very different families.
    The motive power of democracy is love. ~ Henri Bergson

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    Well, I don't know what to say now . . .even with all the negative comments I made on here, I do feel bad for them in this situation. Miscarriage is never easy.

    http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/enter...135283698.html
    Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by BucknellAlum View Post
    Well, I don't know what to say now . . .even with all the negative comments I made on here, I do feel bad for them in this situation. Miscarriage is never easy.

    http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/enter...135283698.html
    You're a better man than I Gunga Din - I guess God decided he had made a mistake - since they claimed it was a "gift from God".

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    Quote Originally Posted by amarante View Post
    You're a better man than I Gunga Din - I guess God decided he had made a mistake - since they claimed it was a "gift from God".
    Is it really necessary to make mean-spirited comments like that about a couple who (no matter what your feeling towards them) has just suffered a great loss?
    The motive power of democracy is love. ~ Henri Bergson

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaraB View Post
    Is it really necessary to make mean-spirited comments like that about a couple who (no matter what your feeling towards them) has just suffered a great loss?
    Why not since they appear to be the hypocrites I assumed them to be. By exploiting their "belief system" they have made themselves fair game.

    I don't claim the moral high road or that God is looking after my interests personally and bestowing "gifts" because I am worthy.

    ETA - This is a public forum - I'm not picketing their funeral or sending them my thoughts. If you feel differently than I do about it, fine - so state but I don't understand why you feel the need to chastise me for expressing my feelings about them.
    Last edited by amarante; 12-09-2011 at 08:21 AM.

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    Copied from an article on them, why their first miscarriage lead to them not using birth control:

    When she got pregnant anyway only to suffer a miscarriage, which they attribute to the birth control pills, the couple felt that they had taken a child’s life. They prayed for forgiveness and for as many children as God decided to give them.
    So, wonder what interpretation they're going to get from this miscarriage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by amarante View Post
    Why not since they appear to be the hypocrites I assumed them to be. By exploiting their "belief system" they have made themselves fair game.

    I don't claim the moral high road or that God is looking after my interests personally and bestowing "gifts" because I am worthy.
    My thoughts exactly. I just feel so sorry for the Duggar girls, especially.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amarante View Post
    Why not since they appear to be the hypocrites I assumed them to be. By exploiting their "belief system" they have made themselves fair game.

    I don't claim the moral high road or that God is looking after my interests personally and bestowing "gifts" because I am worthy.

    ETA - This is a public forum - I'm not picketing their funeral or sending them my thoughts. If you feel differently than I do about it, fine - so state but I don't understand why you feel the need to chastise me for expressing my feelings about them.
    I'm not saying you're not free to express your opinion, I'm just saying that feeling anything but sympathy for someone who's just suffered a miscarriage is pretty mean-spirited. Your post seems to imply that they deserved the miscarriage - no one deserves that.
    The motive power of democracy is love. ~ Henri Bergson

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