What is going on in VA with their pre-abortion bill.

[applecrisp]

Sometimes I can't even believe what comes out of some politicians.

So the Gov of VA waters down the pre-abortion ultrasound bill, but certainly still with many issues.

First he had a bill that a women would have to underdo an invasive ultraound involuntarily before an abortion, regardless if doctor thought it was medically necessary. (is this what they call "small gov't" -- getting into the medical business of women?)

Now,(from the NYTimes) "the House of Delegates passed the bill this afternoon with an amendment aimed at smoothing over the controversy the bill has sparked. Over the last week, women's health advocates nationwide have criticized the bill, particularly in light of a provision that would have required some women to have the ultrasounds via a physically invasive transvaginal probe.

I heard on the news, that the legislature rushed the bill thru, under 30 minutes..

The NYT Times wrote "The amendment that passed today still requires transabdominal ultrasounds, but women will be able to accept or reject "follow-up ultrasounds - including internal ones" that doctors might recommend.

Rape victims etc, are required to get the transabdominal ultrasound too.

Oh, and I understand that there is still a two day waiting period.

There are other points included in the bill.

And, what is beyond terrifying to me, is talk that Gov McDonnell is a possible VIP Candidate.

And, then there is Santorum's making comparison to Obama to Hitler (put those two in the same sentence, no matter inferred or not is disgusting), and some still bringing up Obamas religion, birthplace etc. And, then there are Santorum's views on giving free prenatal care. I'll stop here

[Beth]

Rick Perry pushed through a similar bill here in Texas. If my memory serves me correctly, this bill was part of the special session where they made major budget cuts to schools (our principal says he is talking to other principals who already have 35 in a classroom and they are facing further cuts for next year ). The law has already been challenged in court and the judge said he couldn't overturn it so it is apparently being enforced now.

[Valerie226]

I am increasing stunned that the party who wants to "reduce the size of government" doesn't see the contradiction. Is there room for all three branches of government in my uterus? I feel they are all trying to shoehorn their way in there...

Yes, let's have your congressman or your governor get intimately involved with your sex and reproductive life and decide what medical procedures are necessary, regardless of whether you're willing or need the procedure. what are the risks and who pays? Did any of the people making these decrees go to medical school? I am disgusted with government interfering with medical decisions that should be made by my doctor, myself, and my significant other.
there's an election coming.. we need to reject anyone who supports this invasion of privacy.

[leebee]

I am stunned at the gall this takes. I mean, the GOP could at least buy me drinks first.

Whether you are pro- or anti-choice, it's an issue that is going so far, I can't believe it. Does a woman have so little value in a part of our society that we are to be invaded, prodded, and examined in such humiliating fashion? Make no mistake, this is a "give and inch, take a mile" moment here. Soon, we'll be hearing about bills to limit our rights even further. IRL, I've heard people discussing limiting maternity leave to MARRIED women only. The justification was that a single woman will have so many absences in the future, she'll cost a company too much money. When I heard that, I thought it was so out of touch & stupid, that it didn't even bear thinking about. Then these ultrasound bills started passing, and the transvaginal tests were discussed. It's crazy, but all too true.

Frightening.

[daisylover]

Whether you are pro- or anti-choice, it's an issue that is going so far, I can't believe it.

Agreed, unbelievably far.

Does a woman have so little value in a part of our society that we are to be invaded, prodded, and examined in such humiliating fashion?

My own opinion is that so many of these laws and beliefs are stemming from a belief that unexpected pregnancies don't happen to "good girls" or responsible women. I believe the attacks are successful because so many women remain quiet (understandably so), that the generally accepted belief is that things like unexpected pregnancies happen to promiscuous girls and women and only in families of bad parents. So they should have to pay for their irresponsible behavior.

I think that laws like this will continue to be passed until middle class women become as vocal as the extreme groups that support such legislation.

[donleyk]

So they should have to pay for their irresponsible behavior.

The funny part (funny sick not funny ha-ha) is they don’t pay for it, the taxpayers do. Teen pregnancy is down and abortions are down. It astounds me that the GOP can’t see that interfering with this only serves to put more women and babies on welfare and chances are pretty good that these women may never climb out of the welfare hole. The kids are left at a disadvantage from the word go.

[Valerie226]

I was wondering about Friess, the big contributor to Santorum's campaign, saying women should hold an aspirin between their knees as a contraceptive... how well it works and it's cheap.

I keep wondering if he's married and how happy that marriage is or was.... if every time HE wanted sex, his wife was doing what he suggested. I do NOT understand that sex for women should be a risk and something to be condemned, something they should be punished for in a variety of ways, and I don't understand where the men, who seem to be promoting this idea, think they are going to get any sex when THEY want some. Never mind that a woman might want some, apparently that's something that needs to be "punished" by an unwanted pregnancy. I cannot find any benefit for anyone ( men included) or any thing logical about it.

[SusanMac]

As someone who is self employed & self insured, I would be furious at having this cost forced on me, as well. An ultrasound of any kind can't be cheap.

[kima]

I love you America but you scaring me.

I keep thinking of Margaret Atwood's "A Handmaid's Tale". It used to seem so far fetched.

[BarbaraL]

I love you America but you scaring me.

I keep thinking of Margaret Atwood's "A Handmaid's Tale". It used to seem so far fetched.

I was thinking of A Handmaid's Tale, too; also A Thousand Splendid Suns. So, are we going to lose the right to vote and own property too?

[amarante]

The current positions of this segment are of the Republican party are most definitely trying to force society - and women specifically - back to a mythical time which really was not the good old days - when families had 10 children and men buried 3 or 4 wives. When fear of pregnancy was supposed to keep women to frightened to have sex and women died of back alley abortions.

What is really obscene about this is that it falls so much harder on lower income women. Any woman of moderate means can get to DC or other civilized states just as women in the pre Roe v Wade days were able to go to Puerto Rico, England or get a doctor's note and obtain a safe abortion.

The daily beast compiled 10 of Santorum's more lunatic statements which included this bon mot:

“One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country,” Santorum said. “Many of the Christian faith have said, well, that’s OK; contraception is OK. It’s not OK. It’s a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-has-said.html

[kima]

The current positions of this segment are of the Republican party are most definitely trying to force society - and women specifically - back to a mythical time which really was not the good old days - when families had 10 children and men buried 3 or 4 wives. When fear of pregnancy was supposed to keep women to frightened to have sex and women died of back alley abortions.

What is really obscene about this is that it falls so much harder on lower income women. Any woman of moderate means can get to DC or other civilized states just as women in the pre Roe v Wade days were able to go to Puerto Rico, England or get a doctor's note and obtain a safe abortion.

The daily beast compiled 10 of Santorum's more lunatic statements which included this bon mot:

“One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country,” Santorum said. “Many of the Christian faith have said, well, that’s OK; contraception is OK. It’s not OK. It’s a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-has-said.html

I coach a young woman whose family is a member of Opus Dei and whose mother just had her 12th baby at age 47. We never talk politics (and her parents are from the US). I bet they love Santorum.

This is a serious question-IF he was to become president how likely is it that his very conservative religious views would affect real life policies?

[leebee]

This is a serious question-IF he was to become president how likely is it that his very conservative religious views would affect real life policies?

I don't think a lot of the fringier stuff would ram through right away. My fear is this: We are legitimizing a lot of total nonsense by even entertaining him as a viable candidate in the Republican party. It's time to move social conservatism to it's own party. You have a political community that CAN'T speak out about a lot of this stuff, because it will be used against them. It's crazy. If another candidate turns to Santorum and says, "But shouldn't a woman be able to find access to a safe pregnancy termination in the event of a rape?" the entire machine will twist that into a "pro-abortion" statement. We are climbing dangerously close to a subjugation of women the likes I thought I'd never see. I'm saddened by the rhetoric that surrounds this, that nobody is willing to stand up and say, "We deserve better."

[Meganator]

It's time to move social conservatism to it's own party.

Totally agree!

[Valerie226]

I've always thought that extreme groups...given enough rope ...would hang themselves. I think this is happening with Santorum. His outrageous statements may make the very select minority crowd he is pandering to stand up and cheer, but he is not electable. There's a % of people who vote GOP no matter what, but middle of the road swing voters will not vote for this agenda.

Romney is not running strongly as expected. I'm glad things are falling in line for Obama but I'm thinking the GOP won't be content to run an unelectable candidate. party higher-ups must be lying awake nights wondering how they can get out of the corner they've boxed themselves into.

I'm more concerned that at state levels women, especially poor women, are being hammered with a multitude of minor and major obstacles to getting appropriate health care.

[applecrisp]

The Gov of Virginia is back pedaling, he says he didn't realize ultrasound bill mandated invasive procedure (holy cow..... however he tries to spin it..... but of course, that doesn't negate that any such bill is in the works that requires women to take certain actions even if not required by doctor.... I put in bold some of what I thought key parts).

He didn't realize, he says he was sooo busy he didn't read all of the legislators bill. Oh, yeah, that's right.........

Here's the article by Laura Bassett, Huff Post.

"Bob McDonnell, Virginia Governor, Didn't Realize Ultrasound Bill Mandated Invasive Procedure"

Va. Gov. Bob McDonnell (R) said on Friday that he changed the terms his support for a controversial GOP-sponsored mandatory ultrasound bill at the last minute this week because he didn't realize until that point that the law would require an invasive, transvaginal procedure. Instead, he and a few Republican delegates rewrote the bill to mandate regular abdominal ultrasounds before an abortion, even though they are ineffective during the earliest weeks of pregnancy.

During the amendment process, McDonnell told a Politico panel, "We realized there was [sic] different kinds of ultrasounds, so what I recommended to the General Assembly, and they adopted the other day is, let's make the requirement for an abdominal ultrasound. We found out through the medical community that in most cases if it's not sufficient, on their own they already do other kinds of ultrasounds. So I said let's make those amendments. I also got legal advice from various people that these kinds of mandatory, invasive requirements might run afoul of Fourth Amendment law."

Before Wednesday's House vote on the bill, it was ridiculed by Jon Stewart on "The Daily Show" and lambasted by Virginia Democrats for being "akin to rape."

McDonnell said he hadn't originally paid attention to the ultrasound bill because, as governor, "You're so busy advocating your agenda, you don't read every legislator's bill." But once he "realized exactly the medical and legal issues involved," he told lawmakers to make changes.

Whether McDonnell knew that there were different kinds of ultrasounds involved or not, state Sen. Barbaro Favola (D) told HuffPost that the GOP Senators knew exactly what the mandatory ultrasound bill did before they passed it, because Sen. Ralph Northam (D), a physician, explained the details of the invasive procedure on the Senate floor. "He went through in elaborate detail the fact that this was a transvaginal procedure and made very clear to the Senate exactly what this bill required women to go through," she told HuffPost.

The House passed a version of the ultrasound bill on Wednesday that removed the requirement for the transvaginal procedure, but Democratic state lawmakers were not at all satisfied by the attempted compromise.

"Governor McDonnell's suggestions represent an absurd cop-out," Sen. A. Donald McEachin (D) said. "He still wants to force women to undergo a medical procedure. He still wants to put government in between a woman and her doctor. He still wants to replace a physician's wisdom with the judgment of politicians.”

And, yes, there's talk of him being a VIP choice. And, oh my, read about what he wrote his thesis on, and your head might spin right off.

[leebee]

I just read that article, and I'm just...overwhelmed with stupidity. I guess "transvaginal" is a little ambiguous. Perhaps they should call it "innerladyparts." Der.

And, oh my, read about what he wrote his thesis on, and your head might spin right off.

Holy crap! Unbelievable. Find it here. But don't read it if you don't want your head to spin. Really. To quote that great sage, Sarah Palin, it's "Unfrickenbelievable."

[RiverFarm]

I just finished reading that on Huff Post before I got here. There's also an article about a Republican congressman claiming that his wife refused sex when she realized that he had supported that bill. I wonder what these other guys' wives are thinking....

[syzygy]

I've always thought that extreme groups...given enough rope ...would hang themselves. I think this is happening with Santorum. His outrageous statements may make the very select minority crowd he is pandering to stand up and cheer, but he is not electable. There's a % of people who vote GOP no matter what, but middle of the road swing voters will not vote for this agenda.

The problem with this is that the extreme groups are moving the established party well to the right, and taking the middle of the road swing voters with them, so eventually, even if those extremists WERE to form their own party, everything here has been affected. What used to be our middle of the road is no longer that. Even our "Liberal Progressives" are considered middle-to-right by the rest of world standards.

And never say that someone is not electable. Stranger things have happened, especially when we no longer have paper trails with our votes.

[amarante]

I just finished reading that on Huff Post before I got here. There's also an article about a Republican congressman claiming that his wife refused sex when she realized that he had supported that bill. I wonder what these other guys' wives are thinking....

Actually this was not the tale of a latter day Lysistrata.

The Republican legislator was on the FLOOR of the Virginia House describing his attempted "seduction" of his wife complete with mood music played in the House with assistance from another legislator. It was because he mistakenly switched channels to a news broadcast at which a Democratic opponent was speaking that "killed the mood". He was blaming the opposition.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1300404.html

I read "thesis" by the Virginia governor written when he was 34 years old. I think it accurately depicts the actual mindset of these people including Santorum. Astounding that he managed to get elected - even in Virginia - with that kind of baggage.

[leebee]

I'm reading the thesis right now. And lest anyone think it is just one young grad student's ramblings, it is entitled "The Republican Party's Vision for the Family." It is more his interpretation of where the Republicans need to focus their attention to strengthen the country. And he has so far risen to the level of governor. I find it chilling.

[amarante]

Here's a chilling statement from that thesis

It is also becoming clear in modern culture that the voting American mainstream is not willing to accept a true pro-family ideologue…Leadership, however, does not require giving voters what they want, for whimsical and capricious government would result. Republican legislators must exercise independent professional judgment as statesmen, to make decisions that are objectively right, and proved effective. (pg. 61)

[Melman]

It is more his interpretation of where the Republicans need to focus their attention to strengthen the country. And he has so far risen to the level of governor. I find it chilling.

I live in the south where it doesn't take much more than an "R" next to a candidate's name for the majority of the people around here to vote for someone. Fox News is the norm..yes, there are people who honestly believe they've "fair and balanced". Seriously. <sigh> People like McConnell are terribly scary to me, and scarier that he's evidently on the short list as vice-president potential for several of the remaining candidates.

[applecrisp]

Amaarante --

I saw that vidoe of David Albo speaking, yes, as you said, he was addressing the house of delegates on the floor. What a total moron. Such stupidity for both mindset and professionalism. So this is how tax dollars are spent for that crap.

Talking about how he was trying to set the mood with his wife, but then cut short. And, he brought music to the house floor. So he pre-planned this stupidity.

[kima]

Amaarante --

I saw that vidoe of David Albo speaking, yes, as you said, he was addressing the house of delegates on the floor. What a total moron. Such stupidity for both mindset and professionalism. So this is how tax dollars are spent for that crap.

Talking about how he was trying to set the mood with his wife, but then cut short. And, he brought music to the house floor. So he pre-planned this stupidity.

I am speechless. Wish he had been as well.

[jellyben]

As someone who is self employed & self insured, I would be furious at having this cost forced on me, as well.

Playing devil's advocate here, but this is exactly the way Catholic institutions feel about having to cover birth control.

I live in VA and I am so offended by this bill. Even my staunchly pro-life DH is against it.

[syzygy]

Playing devil's advocate here, but this is exactly the way Catholic institutions feel about having to cover birth control.

As long as those institutions continue to accept federal and/or state funding, they, like everyone else, must abide by federal and/or state laws. You can't have it both ways.

[jellyben]

As long as those institutions continue to accept federal and/or state funding, they, like everyone else, must abide by federal and/or state laws. You can't have it both ways.

Except that the HHS mandate does not only apply to institutions accepting federal funding. It also applies to those that are funded solely by private donations.

[amarante]

Except that the HHS mandate does not only apply to institutions accepting federal funding. It also applies to those that are funded solely by private donations.

THe constitutional issue doesn't involve government funding. Government funding is a separate constitutional issue when courts attempt to determine whether there is "state" involvement.

THe constitutional justification for requiring contraception is based on how 200 years of interpretation of the First Amendment treat religious institutions differently when they are engaged in secular activities versus religious activities.

Many previous posts on this thread contains the constitutional justification for why this is not "new" law or a violation of the First Amendment. In fact, many states already have such a requirement and many of them do NOT contain the exemption for actual religious institutions performing RELIGIOUS functions that the Federal bill does.

[jellyben]

My point is the 'federal funding' thing people like to throw around as justification for making Catholic institutions provide these services is a bit of a red herring, since even a Catholic institution that accepts NO state or federal funding will still be required to provide them.