food at school - am I being "too radical"

[DanaSD]

This is our first experience at public school (its a charter) and its driving me nuts. Prior was a private schools and preschools

We're supposed to send in a morning snack. But teacher is veto'ing everything because it can't need to be chilled, can't be eaten with a spoon and no reusuable containers. I think its because they eat snack outside and then resess so what to do with the containers? But there are many solutions to this.

For birthdays she requested everyone send in cupcakes or cookies. I asked if she might also suggest "alternative healthy snack" and she had never heard this suggestion before and asked me if I had ideas since she didn't know what people could send in.

birthday desserts are severed before lunch. There are 26 kids so that means about once a week they will be eating dessert before lunch.

To me its really important that most of the food my son eats is all natural or organic and healthy. Especially before he eats junk. Also I use reusable containers for environmental reasons and many prepackaged food is junk. For example I sent in apples and peanut butter (organic peanut butter) - I konw the prepackage single serving peanut butter is filled with extra junk.

Our last school banned artificial colors, transfats and everything had to be all natural for classroom birthdays (people brought things like fruit kabobs, healthy muffins, etc) and a waste free lunch was encouraged.

My husband thinks I'm being to radical. But this is important to me and I don't think my opinions are rare - isn't this somewhat common view by other parents?

The school did pick a food lunch vendor that uses "all natural" foods and often whole grains so there is some thought in this direction.

Any the aftercare program has requested no sugar snacks so they get it.

[AngelaM]

This is our first experience at public school (its a charter) and its driving me nuts. Prior was a private schools and preschools

We're supposed to send in a morning snack. But teacher is veto'ing everything because it can't need to be chilled, can't be eaten with a spoon and no reusuable containers. I think its because they eat snack outside and then resess so what to do with the containers? But there are many solutions to this.

For birthdays she requested everyone send in cupcakes or cookies. I asked if she might also suggest "alternative healthy snack" and she had never heard this suggestion before and asked me if I had ideas since she didn't know what people could send in.

birthday desserts are severed before lunch. There are 26 kids so that means about once a week they will be eating dessert before lunch.

To me its really important that most of the food my son eats is all natural or organic and healthy. Especially before he eats junk. Also I use reusable containers for environmental reasons and many prepackaged food is junk. For example I sent in apples and peanut butter (organic peanut butter) - I konw the prepackage single serving peanut butter is filled with extra junk.

Our last school banned artificial colors, transfats and everything had to be all natural for classroom birthdays (people brought things like fruit kabobs, healthy muffins, etc) and a waste free lunch was encouraged.

My husband thinks I'm being to radical. But this is important to me and I don't think my opinions are rare - isn't this somewhat common view by other parents?

The school did pick a food lunch vendor that uses "all natural" foods and often whole grains so there is some thought in this direction.

Any the aftercare program has requested no sugar snacks so they get it.

I don't have kids yet, but my food philosophies are 100% like yours. I try to eat clean, the less processed the better, organic if possible. I can totally see myself being a Mom like you although, based on my conversations with co-workers/friends, sadly I do think we are in the minority.

[amarante]

I think the teacher doesn't want to be responsible for keeping track of containers for the kids especially if they are being brought out of the classroom or lunchroom. While not the best solution, you can package healthier options in foil, wax paper or saran wrap rather than relying on stuff that is individually wrapped and highly processed by the commercial distributors.

It appears that she is willing to work with you in terms of asking you what are appropriate treats to be brought in. It seems odd that birthday parties are done prior to lunch since it would seem to me that morning is the most productive time for young kids at school and celebrations would be after lunch.

Of course it would seem as if this should be handled through the parents group setting some kind of policy regarding birthday treats throughout the school because even if you bring in healthier stuff, it doesn't mean other parents aren't going to ignore it unless it's a school wide policy in terms of defining what is appropriate.

[RiverFarm]

I don't think you're being radical at all, and perhaps your input can help to educate the people in charge of making these decisions. Your child will spend the greater part of the day in that environment, and to have your child exposed to junk, with pesticides, GMOs, and artificial colors and flavors, would be awful. We do the same thing with reusable containers and organic foods, so we would definitely have issues with those policies. What if your kid had allergies to some of these substances. They'd have to be flexible there, so why not for a parent who strangely wants her child to eat healthy?

[DanaSD]

I do plan on joining the PTA and hope to head up a campaign to enourage helathier food and waste free lunches including an education component.

All of my son's containers have huge name stickers on them. And I"m ok with the risk of getting lost. At our last school they had a bakset they used to bring everything back in the classroom and then students returned their items to their backpacks. At first it might be hard but kids can take responsbility for their item.

[amarante]

I do plan on joining the PTA and hope to head up a campaign to enourage helathier food and waste free lunches including an education component.

All of my son's containers have huge name stickers on them. And I"m ok with the risk of getting lost. At our last school they had a bakset they used to bring everything back in the classroom and then students returned their items to their backpacks. At first it might be hard but kids can take responsbility for their item.

I don't think your goals are "radical" but as I wrote I think it's difficult for a classroom teacher to implement this kind of program in terms without having a school wide policy because then she or he is in a dilemma of setting policy and something like this needs to come from the administration.

My OP wasn't meant to rain on your parade only to point out that a classroom teacher has to tread carefully and needs to be able to point to an administrative consent.

She isn't averse to "healthier options" as she has asked you for suggestions. But again, as per my OP, how is this going to work in terms of what is permitted and what isn't.

Regarding the recyclable containers, I would think you need to tell her that you are all right if your son's containers go missing to take her off the hook. It then becomes an issue between you and your child rather than having a teacher assume the duty of policing containers.

[Robyn1007]

Argh, I would hate having 26 kids hopped up on birthday treats. It drives me batty as a coach when kids eat too much sugar at lunch. I've been known to confiscate sweets from kids who regularly fill up on that before eating the healthier parts of their lunch. I make them eat that first then dole out the sweets.

I agree that reassuring her that you will not hold her responsible for lost items. Maybe tell her about how it was handled at your previous school. She just may not have the vision of how to make the logistics work.

[Bawstinn]

The rules around morning snack would drive me crazy, but then I have an issue with the school telling me what I can and can't pack in my child's lunch. DD had ONE homemade oatmeal cookie w/ dried cranberries in her lunch last year and one of the teachers in the cafeteria told her that she needed to bring in healthy food only for lunch. Yet she sits surrounded by a sea of Lunchables.

But I digress.

I think that the teacher can make suggestions for healthier options for birthday treats but that doesn't necessarily mean that parents are going to go the healthier route. Not sure the diversity of the school, but I can see people being hard pressed for $$ and not being able to afford to send in 26 servings of fruit salad for example, because it is healthier. Quite honestly, I am sure that some in our school can't afford to send in cupcakes and cookies.

We also eat pretty clean at home and have very little processed food. I also realize though, as my kids get older, I can only control what they eat to a certain extent. Do I cringe when a Capri Sun shows up at t-ball with snack? Yes, but I am also not going to tell her she can't have it. When it is our turn to bring snack we bring little bottles of water.

We recently received a letter from the schools regarding snacks, and I found it interesting.

[amarante]

In fairness the restriction pertains to food being eaten by other children and not which you have your children bring in to eat for themselves.

Schools need to protect themselves from liability in terms of ingredients as well as health/safety issues from food preparation so I do understand why they need the restrictions for everyone.

Not every home baked item is healthy (or safe) and not every commercially prepared item is unhealthy or dangerous.

[cookieee]

This is our first experience at public school (its a charter) and its driving me nuts. Prior was a private schools and preschools

We're supposed to send in a morning snack. But teacher is veto'ing everything because it can't need to be chilled, can't be eaten with a spoon and no reusuable containers. I think its because they eat snack outside and then resess so what to do with the containers? But there are many solutions to this.

For birthdays she requested everyone send in cupcakes or cookies. I asked if she might also suggest "alternative healthy snack" and she had never heard this suggestion before and asked me if I had ideas since she didn't know what people could send in.

birthday desserts are severed before lunch. There are 26 kids so that means about once a week they will be eating dessert before lunch.

To me its really important that most of the food my son eats is all natural or organic and healthy. Especially before he eats junk. Also I use reusable containers for environmental reasons and many prepackaged food is junk. For example I sent in apples and peanut butter (organic peanut butter) - I konw the prepackage single serving peanut butter is filled with extra junk.

Our last school banned artificial colors, transfats and everything had to be all natural for classroom birthdays (people brought things like fruit kabobs, healthy muffins, etc) and a waste free lunch was encouraged.

My husband thinks I'm being to radical. But this is important to me and I don't think my opinions are rare - isn't this somewhat common view by other parents?

The school did pick a food lunch vendor that uses "all natural" foods and often whole grains so there is some thought in this direction.

Any the aftercare program has requested no sugar snacks so they get it.

Thank God my daughter is long out of school. It would drive me crazy. Even with all the recipes I have access to, to come up with something different all the time Why doesn't someone start a thread and help these mothers out with some ideas or recipes?

[wallycat]

I don't have kids so only faced food issues in school when it was myself going.
I commend you for your goals and your hard work on keeping good options open for your child.

I frankly don't remember anything like "snack-time" for us when we went to school....you brought what you wanted to eat and ate it during lunch or at recess. You ate what your parents packed. School lunches were available as a "hot lunch" and those of us who were in the poverty cut-off (myself) were given lunch meal tickets to get free hot lunches (I remember them being dreadful).

I think a separate thread listing specific things you need for ideas would be great!

[amarante]

Why do schools permit such frequent "parties".

Some parents might not be able to afford as nice a party as others; some kids have allergies or parents who have different food standards.

Why not propose a monthly celebration for all birthdays and have it coordinated by the class mothers or equivalent personnel. That way, the food could be controlled and kids wouldn't be excluded or made to feel inferior.

And I still don't understand why any birthday celebration with party food would occur in the morning prior to lunch. Why isn't it held in the 30 minutes prior to the kids getting out of school which is often dead time anyway at the end of the day.

[leebee]

Why do schools permit such frequent "parties".

Some parents might not be able to afford as nice a party as others; some kids have allergies or parents who have different food standards.

Why not propose a monthly celebration for all birthdays and have it coordinated by the class mothers or equivalent personnel. That way, the food could be controlled and kids wouldn't be excluded or made to feel inferior.

And I still don't understand why any birthday celebration with party food would occur in the morning prior to lunch. Why isn't it held in the 30 minutes prior to the kids getting out of school which is often dead time anyway at the end of the day.

That's how my daughter's school does it. And not everyone brings in unhealthy treats. My daughter brought in clementines for hers.

[PurplePotato]

I understand the rules they seem to have in place. Keeping track of every snack container? Never going to happen and you are going to have some of those parents who are going to be mad and blame the teacher. But that doesn't mean you have to send in pre-packaged snacks. Ziplock snack bags work great. I also understand the no spoons and no fridge. Can you imagine if they had to supply fridge space for every kid? But that still leaves a ton of healthy options.

When you are dealing with a lot of kids you just have to make some compromises to make sure things run smoothly. We're having our school picnic today. This year we nixed grapes because they are a royal PITA to prep and serve. Apples instead. Much much easier. Sometimes the practical aspect has to win.

And it doesn't sound like she's opposed to a healthier birthday treat - she asked for suggestions. Give her some!

Joining the PTA sounds like a great option. Change from within and all that jazz. Franky I'm surprised they allow birthday treats. Our school has a no treat policy. Kids can bring in a small birthday trinket to pass out (stickers, pencils, bubbles, etc) but no treats. At first I kinda paused but I think it is a great policy. You could suggest something like that.

The adjustment to public school can take some time but I think if you step back and look at the big picture it can help.

[mrswaz]

A potential solution to not sending in reusable containers would be to offer a nice basket to the teacher- one large enough to hold an entire class worth's of snack containers. When the kids come to school, they put their snack- labeled with their name- in the snack basket. At snack time, the basket travels with the class, and if they have a reusable container, it goes back in the basket. At the end of the day, reclaiming the containers to go home would be the child's responsibility.

Alternatively, you could pack your child's snacks in something different. A large box of snack-size ziplocs would last you all year at one a day. If you're not comfortable with plastic, I've seen wax paper bags in that aisle at the grocery store.

I think I would choose one issue to deal with at a time- beginning with one that you personally can make changes about.

[cminmd]

When my daughter was in third grade she had late lunch so the teacher asked parents to donate large items for snacks. I would buy the large containers of honey wheat pretzels (low salt) from costco that came in the big plastic barrel container. She would use simple plastic cups for each kids snack and she would just fill the cups up on a tray outside (or in the gym for rain days) and the kids would take one cup as they walked in. They had 15 minutes to eat their snack and run around. She would only wash the cups around once a week so people had to send in very dry snacks.

[Andrea_2]

You are not being too radical! I would have NO patience for that. I had a discussion with my son's preschool teacher after I received a request from her to bring in Little Debbie snacks, canned cheese and other junk for snacks. Her explanation was that the kids were only willing to eat junk food. I think that is completely unacceptable. I told her I couldn't buy that stuff. I also didn't like how he was always getting cupcakes and other crap for birthdays which happened all the time. Fortunately, the school my kids go to now allows ONLY healthy food for afternoon snacks (and even has a specific list of items to choose from - fruit, carrot sticks, raisins, etc.). And they also do not allow any food whatsoever for birthdays. Kids can hand out stickers, toys or other items, but NO food. I like it this way SO much better. Definitely address the issue. I'm sure there are other parents who would join you.

[DanaSD]

thanks for everyone's replies - makes me feel better.

I did send an email to the teacher and finally got a response - she doesn't want containers because she's afraid kids will forget to bring them back inside since they also have a water bottle with them. And no dips because she feels its too messy (unfortanately this is how I get my son to eat veggies but I can save this for lunch). I will suggest the basket.

I was very surprised about the birthday desserts. The notice to parents said "for birthdays bring 26 cupcakes or cookies" - previous schools its always been suggested but food has never been required. There don't seem to be any rules about bakery only and you can buy cupcakes pretty cheap at big box stores. While this is a public school, its a charter and there are a lot of additional expenses (and parents know this when sending their kids there) so I think most families can afford to send in a snack. The food allergy issue does worry me some too - my son has food allergies but at least they're mild.

Now I'm all for sweets (I own a sweet shop) and I do get a lot of orders for cupcakes for school birthdays and some of my orders are even in the $100 range. But I'm very strict with my son that he eats his healthy food first (in general he doesn't eat much) and I've found when people are given options to bring health food about half of the celebrations are this way which cuts down on the weekly cupcakes (which is additiona to baseball practice snack, baseball game snack, movie theater with grandma, etc). When I have sent in cupcakes I send in minicupcakes and the teachers love it.

I'm also really surprised this school allows birthday celebrations - its a traditional school and they're very strict about not allowing any 'pop culture' and they don't celebrate any of the 'modern holidays'. Now this is a new campus so I'm wondering what this specific schools policy is. I think I'll learn more this week as they're releasing the handbook and the first PTA mtg (which the headmaster is leading)

[Kyra]

I realize this is an off-topic question, but if you don't mind answering, what does this school consider to be "modern holidays?" Thanks!

[DanaSD]

modern holidays probably isn't the word they use - I forget what they used. But its Halloween, Christmas, Valentine's Day, etc. I think its more like they don't celebrate them in the modern way with classroom parties, costumes, etc. They do have some holiday celebrations - I forget the holidays that they do celebrate

[gertdog]

I share your mindset as well, and if I recall correctly your DS and my DS are in the same grade so we're both just getting started with school/food issues!

This year in 1st grade the teacher has what she calls a "dry snack" mid-morning. When they unpack their backpacks in the morning, the dry snack goes into their desk, to be eaten during a quiet reading time. So like yours it is not chilled, and it has to be no spoon, no mess. DS and I made a batch of "trail mix" from cereal, crackers, dried fruit, etc. and that's what he's taking for now. There's no ban on reusable containers, probably b/c they're eating at their desks rather than outside. I can see why they don't want to keep track of the containers outside, but I agree you can suggest the basket idea and see how the teacher responds. Or perhaps you could send DS's snack in one of those lined reusable fabric bags that he could then fold up and put in a pocket, if the teacher is open to that.

My DS is in a public charter too, and while we are thrilled with it for so many reasons, the ONE negative comment I wrote on last year's evaluation was about the overabundance of unhealthy snacks and treats throughout the year. I could live with SOME of it...I feel I need to accept the fact that until now I've had complete control over what my child eats, and that will change as he gets older both in and out of school, so my job becomes more about teaching him to make healthy choices...but it doesn't need to be so often.

While I'd like to think most parents share this mindset, I know at DS's school it's not necessarily the case. I got to visit and eat lunch with him a few times and what I saw ran the gamut from ultra-healthy to Lunchables. One little girl had a thermos of homemade soup, multigrain baguette, and chopped vegetable salad. The kid next to her had an uncrustable and candy, and another had an american cheese sandwich on white bread with the crusts cut off. So, while I'm not uncomfortable stating my views on food to other parents, I do try to keep in mind that it may not be as important to some as it is to me.

[notmetoday]

Here is my $.02 on this matter.
1. I agree that there are too many sugary treats being handed out at schools. In my class we have a monthly celebration of birthdays. If the parent would like to contribute I suggest healthier options (fruit kabobs, cheese and crackers, even chocolate dipped fruit to me is preferred to a cupcake).

2. You as a parent can only guide your child to make proper choices. You send him in with a nutritious snack and suggest to him that he only eats a few bites of a cupcake. You will not be able to control every aspect of his decision making.

3. There are 26 (times 2 counting mom and dad) other parents in the class. All of them have their opinions and many of them voice them. You can offer suggestions (they are greatly appreciated if done nicely and non-judgmentally) but remember that it is the teacher's classroom, sometimes bound by school policy. I don't think you would like it if a customer came into your shop and told you how to run your business.

[DanaSD]

The difference is that my son's school is involved with the raising of my child for 7 hours every day. People shop at my store but I'm not involved with raising their children.

[RiverFarm]

Dana, I agree. A business is very different from raising a child. My son had numerous allergies and I had to get involved in how he was fed at school. We also followed a minimal-sweets policy. Neither of my kids had cavities until they were teenagers and succumbing to peer pressure re junk food. Actually my daughter arrived from Korea at age 3 with three cavities and had none after that until she was almost grown. For an issue as important as what goes into our kids' bodies I think there's nothing wrong with being a bit militant. Recent studies about longterm effects of GMOs are really scary.

[notmetoday]

The difference is that my son's school is involved with the raising of my child for 7 hours every day. People shop at my store but I'm not involved with raising their children.

I agree... I was just trying to suggest (poor choice of words on my part) that you keep an open mind and make suggestions in a nice manner. So many teachers are bombarded with harshly worded emails that demand change. Sometimes parental ideas are good and doable, other times seem nitpicky and really not feasible.

[Andrea_2]

I agree... I was just trying to suggest (poor choice of words on my part) that you keep an open mind and make suggestions in a nice manner. So many teachers are bombarded with harshly worded emails that demand change. Sometimes parental ideas are good and doable, other times seem nitpicky and really not feasible.

I didn't see anything in any of Dana's posts to suggest that she wasn't going to approach things in a "nice manner" or "bombard the teachers with harshly worded emails". I think this is a very legitimate issue, not at all nitpicky, and very different from being a customer at a store. If a customer doesn't like how a store operates, they don't have to ever shop there. Very different from a school setting where a child has to spend a great deal of their time. Parents should have every right to have a say in how their child is fed.

[notmetoday]

I didn't see anything in any of Dana's posts to suggest that she wasn't going to approach things in a "nice manner" or "bombard the teachers with harshly worded emails". I think this is a very legitimate issue, not at all nitpicky, and very different from being a customer at a store. If a customer doesn't like how a store operates, they don't have to ever shop there. Very different from a school setting where a child has to spend a great deal of their time. Parents should have every right to have a say in how their child is fed.

I agree about the healthy snacks. I also never suggested that Dana was going to send harsh comments. My suggestion comparing the sweet shop/ classroom setting were meant more for the containers being used and the teacher not wanting to keep track of them. I also commented that she needs to teach her son about healthy choices because there are too many temptations in schools, parties, even the snacks brought to soccer games (who thinks that the kids need Oreos and Capri Suns after a soccer practice???). Writing on boards and emails can often look judgmental and taken in the wrong context as seen by my posts.

[cookieee]

Maybe some one can tell me. What is it with all this snacking outside of the home? After practice, why doesn't everyone just go home.

[DanaSD]

the snacks at practice and games is treated as a reward. I agree that its not needed especially because we have bball practice from 530-630 and then we go home and eat dinner. My husband has coached the last few seasons and we dropped the practice snacks and only do game snacks. Also we always sign up first and bring fruit and I've been finding that then about haldf the other parents bring fruit when its their turn (which is a huge improvement because it used to be cupcakes, candy, etc.

[newtricks]

I don't think you're being too radical but I also agree with notme's point. My youngest is going into 5th grade so I've been involved in more conversations about this than I can count and the differences in opinion/parental approach is pretty extreme. At a class parent meeting once someone suggested just forbidding birthday food celebrations and half of us raised our hands in support but there were parents who were *pissed* that their children would be deprived of their special treat! So the schools really are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

That being said, because of allergies the school is really encouraging non-food birthday celebrations - parents can read a book to class or kids can bring in favors, etc. After a couple of years of this policy, I would say about a third of birthdays are celebrating without cupcakes - which is progress!

As far as every day snacks - if the kids bring in individual snacks, that's great. You can control what your own kid eats.

3. There are 26 (times 2 counting mom and dad) other parents in the class. All of them have their opinions and many of them voice them. You can offer suggestions (they are greatly appreciated if done nicely and non-judgmentally) but remember that it is the teacher's classroom, sometimes bound by school policy.