Math gurus - desperate help needed!

[Chefzhat]

Here's the problem we're trying to solve - my oldest's Algebra II class.

"Factor this polynomial"

x^4 + 4y^4


Ready, set, go!

xo
Debie

[mcgee]

Now if this is an assignment for your son's math class wouldn't it be considered cheating if you get the answer from this board and he doesn't have to figure it out himself?

[Chefzhat]

Um, anyone else????

I'm not going into the reasons we need this, this is a problem we're all stuck on, even DH is having trouble. The kids are all welcome to get all the help they can get - they are in the advanced math program and these are difficult problems. Not necessarily looking for an answer, just how to factor the problem.

[Chefzhat]

Now if this is an assignment for your son's math class wouldn't it be considered cheating if you get the answer from this board and he doesn't have to figure it out himself?

FWIW, I consider this a completely rude comment. If you have nothing to offer then move along. Your judgments and condemnation I can do without.

[aggie94]

Sorry, Debie - I tried, couldn't figure it out. I can get x^4 - 4y^4, though.

I know, I'm no help. Just wanted to let you know that I tried. Still trying and will pop back in later if no one else figures it out first (yeah, right!).

[kima]

Hi Debie!

I chat with a bunch of guys about track and field and I know a couple of them are math wizzes. I emailed the problem to them.
I don't know if I'll hear back soon but if I do I'll be sure to post .

[eas11]

Here's the problem we're trying to solve - my oldest's Algebra II class.

"Factor this polynomial"

x^4 + 4y^4


Ready, set, go!

xo
Debie

Well, I have no idea at all about this myself, being the math loser that I am, but I I/M-ed it to my niece, the girl with the perfect Math SAT's. FWIW she said it's not solveable, saying something about how it's factored and can't be broken down any further and stuff I didn't understand! . That doesn't sound right---why would he get a problem that can't be solved?

[acginkc]

I am getting the same answer as aggie, the only other thought I have had is to take the square root of the whole thing. Sorry I am not more help. I always hated algebra. Good luck with finding the right answer.

[kima]

I am waiting to hear back from a University math prof!

I will have to cut and paste what he says as it is all a foreign language for me.

[MKSquared]

Everyone who's posted so far is correct. The problem you gave is prime. It's not factorable. If it were subtraction, it would be the difference of two squares ... but it's addition, so that's that.

[badunnin]

(x^2-2yx+2y^2)(x^2+2yx+2y^2)

I think that works...

[badunnin]

Everyone who's posted so far is correct. The problem you gave is prime. It's not factorable. If it were subtraction, it would be the difference of two squares ... but it's addition, so that's that.

That 4 changes things. If it was just x^4+y^4, it would be prime.

[MKSquared]

That 4 changes things. If it was just x^4+y^4, it would be prime.

Bah. You're right.

(x^2 - 2 x y + 2 y^2 ) (x^2 + 2 x y + 2 y^2 )

That's what I got, too.

[Beth]

You guys are scaring me. Please don't go anywhere over the next 5 years. My oldest is taking Algebra I in 7th grade and will be over my head before he's finished with high school math. Now I realize that I have forgotten more than I remember and he will be over my head sooner rather than later.

[aggie94]

Bah. You're right.

(x^2 - 2 x y + 2 y^2 ) (x^2 + 2 x y + 2 y^2 )

That's what I got, too.

Yeah, I had also gotten that, but I wasn't thinking that that was the answer, because I just assumed you could go simpler than that and I just wasn't getting it.

[Gecko]

You guys are scaring me. Please don't go anywhere over the next 5 years. My oldest is taking Algebra I in 7th grade and will be over my head before he's finished with high school math. Now I realize that I have forgotten more than I remember and he will be over my head sooner rather than later.

I'll second this notion.

[Beth]

I'll second this notion.

Thanks. Misery loves company!

[kima]

I am really impressed by you math people!
I struggled in math after grade 8 and it was only very hard work that got me through Math11!
Anyway the math prof gave the exact same answer!

[Peggy]

You guys are scaring me. Please don't go anywhere over the next 5 years.

DITTO!! My DD is in 11th grade and taking Pre-Calculus. I don't even want to think about next year!!! I am worthless in the math department, but luckily have a sister that tutors college mathematics. She helps DD with math and I help her kids with chemistry. Fair trade!

Peggy

[Laura]

Yeah, I had also gotten that, but I wasn't thinking that that was the answer, because I just assumed you could go simpler than that and I just wasn't getting it.

Oh yeah, that was my thought too. Seriously, I don't know how I made it through two years of Calculus in college, because none of this looks even vaguely familiar too me.

[Escher]

Anybody scared that their child will approach them w/ HW questions that surpasses their ability to solve need to be doing homework with their children...so as they learn, you are re-learning.

Besides, once you see the concept once or twice, it will all come back.

[Chefzhat]

Thank you! You're all stars!

We came up with this answer late last night, I wanted to post again but my internet went down.

It seems the majority of the class was struggling with this one. I'm lost when it comes to algebra this advanced (which doesn't say a lot for my math brain). Usually my DH can figure this stuff out, but last night he was not available until late, at which point my son's brain was toast. Poor guy.

Much appreciated!!!!

xo
Debie

[Peggy]

Anybody scared that their child will approach them w/ HW questions that surpasses their ability to solve need to be doing homework with their children...so as they learn, you are re-learning.

Besides, once you see the concept once or twice, it will all come back.

How old are your children??

In theory, I agree with you. In actual practice, I don't think it's that easy. Elementary and middle school are not a problem for most parents. However, once the children get into high school and start taking more specialized and advanced courses, it is alot to expect for the average parent to be able to confidently answer all homework questions in all subjects. Some are better at English, some at math. To "retake" several courses along with your child and work fulltime, and keep up with all your other domestic and household duties, plus provide the emotional support each child needs is truly more than the average parents has the time or energy for. Even a "Super Parent" can't meet that lofty expectation. They say it takes a village to raise a child and I believe that is true even in the homework arena. I do the Honors Chemistry tutoring; my DH takes on the History. When the difficult math question comes along we call Aunty Joan!

Peggy

[Gecko]

Thanks. Misery loves company!

You bet! I am, what I believe they call these days, "math challenged"

[Escher]

How old are your children??

I am pleased to say that they are old enough to distinguish "circle" from "square" from "triangle". So, we aren't stumped yet.

[sneezles]

Anybody scared that their child will approach them w/ HW questions that surpasses their ability to solve need to be doing homework with their children...so as they learn, you are re-learning.

Fortunately I had the good sense to marry an engineer so math homework was never brought to me! English and Social Studies and basic Spanish were my depts.

What scares me though is DS#3 a freshman at UT tells me his college calculus class is a breeze!

[Escher]

What scares me though is DS#3 a freshman at UT tells me his college calculus class is a breeze!

Here's what should really be putting the fear of god into you:
Coeds.

[Beth]

Anybody scared that their child will approach them w/ HW questions that surpasses their ability to solve need to be doing homework with their children...so as they learn, you are re-learning.

Besides, once you see the concept once or twice, it will all come back.

I'm afraid not. I didn't see a need to learn it then and lost interest. I now have a house, husband, 2 boys, and 2 cats to keep running, 2 schools I help at, and somehow I made it through both an undergrad and a gradute degree and years of successful career work without taking calculus. I have even less interest now. If he can make it interesting enough for me to care, then he can teach me (the best way to know you've learned it). Otherwise, I'll find him someone who does care to help him, if needed.

My parents didn't go to law school with me, they didn't take all my college courses or even my high school courses. Heaven help me if they did! I'd rather my kids (we're talking GT kids who rarely do -- not a child who needs consistent help) struggle with a little homework than struggle with self-reliance, independence or resourcefulness.

[Gecko]

Fortunately I had the good sense to marry an engineer so math homework was never brought to me! English and Social Studies and basic Spanish were my depts.

Same here. The concepts of math are still the same but the method of getting to the answer seems to have changed - even for simple addition.

[sneezles]

Same here. The concepts of math are still the same but the method of getting to the answer seems to have changed - even for simple addition.

Yeah that use to frustrate DH when one of the boys would say, "But Mrs blank didn't teach us to do it that way!"