date/friend dilemma

[mackandme]

After going a couple years with no man giving me so much as the time of day, I finally kind of sort of maybe am dating a guy. We've gone out a couple times. I really like him.

Friday nights seem to be the night he prefers to go out. We haven't officially made plans for this Friday, but a friend called just now and wanted to make plans for Friday. I said I could go if I didn't have a date. It's not like I made plans with her and then broke them.

Well, she got really snide with me. She just got divorced (as in two weeks ago) and has absolutely no interest in having anything to do with men. I keep telling her, wait a couple years and you'll miss them! But she was really witchy about me putting a date ahead of this get-together. She also made a snide comment about his upcoming hernia surgery...

I have another friend, an avowed man-hater, who is the opposite of the spectrum. I had plans with her a while back, and Jason wanted to go on a date. I told him I couldn't b/c of my plans with her, and for various scheduling conflicts, he and I couldn't get together for a few more weeks. She absolutely insisted that in the future, I break plans with her to go on a date. Hence my current policy on the man comes first. As she sees it, she's always around but dates are hard to come by. I guess she just understands how important this is to me.

So, who's right?

[Laura]

Hmm... I don't know that anyone is right or wrong, but I think I would feel a little put out if someone said I can go out with you, if I don't end up having a date. I understand where you are coming from, but your friend is coming from a difficult situation and hearing that you are in the dating scene may make her feel like she is not going to have someone to hang with. Maybe you could have said something like "Joe and I have tentative plans for Friday night. Can I let you know by Wednesday?"

[Peweh]

Maybe you could have said something like "Joe and I have tentative plans for Friday night. Can I let you know by Wednesday?"

I like what Laura said - but I'm only cutting your friend slack due to the recent divorce. She's being oversensitive and projecting her anger at other things onto you. I think most of us have been in situations where our friends are gaga over a guy and ditched us to hang out with him especially in the newly dating days, it can be annoying but also kind of cute if you're in your own good place and can laugh about it. She's just not there. Maybe you can salvage with a "I may have plans w/Joe on friday but let's do lunch on Sat" type thing?

[Canice]

I don't think the friend's divorce is all that relevant: If I invited someone out and they told me, essentially, "unless I get a better offer" I wouldn't like it all. Why defer to his preference for Friday night over your friend's invitation? What on earth is wrong with telling him "I have plans for Friday, are you free Saturday?"

[mackandme]

it's not like i'm leaving her home alone. she's having a bunch of people over - and honestly it's not really something i would have wanted to attend anyway. if she had called and said, "I'm so upset and feeling alone, can you hang out friday night" that would have been a different thing entirely. though she is the one who cheated on her husband, and bought a house of her own before they had even separated!

and i REALLY didn't appreciate the direction she was going about her hernia comment. it was very nasty.

[Robyncz]

I'm sorry to say this, but the way you describe the situation, you may have handled it poorly. No matter what words you used, what you essentially said was, "I'd love to do something with you unless something better comes along."

Your friend's divorce, her upcoming surgery, and her attitude towards men all are pretty much irrelevant. What you said to her was hurtful and it's not surprising that she responded with anger.

I'm not sure how you can salvage the situation now that it's already out there, but in the future, you could say something like Laura suggested (I already have tentative plans for Friday night, can I get back to you for sure in a day or two?) or suggest an alternate day altogether.

Good luck!

[lindrusso]

No matter what words you used, what you essentially said was, "I'd love to do something with you unless something better comes along."

And even more to the point is that even if that's not what you said, this is what she heard.

And frankly, I might hear it that way too, unless we were really good friends and you had already told me how excited you were to be dating this guy, etc. Are you two really close?

I think it's okay to put dating first if that's what's important to you, but you may need to find a more tactful way of reserving those nights for him. You could just say that Friday doesn't work for you and suggest a different night - no need to mention the date at all.

[slawrence]

I've been on both sides of this one. The one that got put off for a potential date and the one that put off for a potential date. I know how fun it is to finally start dating but I would caution you to not put they date before the friends all the time. I know it's hard to balance, but it's important to keep your girlfriends too. And the new guy might come to expect that you will always be available every Friday night and he might just get too comfy with the routine and you could decide one day that you want other things now and then. I am dating a great guy but I sort of laid down some ground rules in the beginning and kept friends (including my old male friends like my old neighbor) and am glad I worked at keeping the friendships instead of leaving them behind. Good luck and enjoy the dating! Sue

[jmarie]

Fact of the matter is she caught you off guard and you handled it wrong.... We are all guilty of doing that and I sure wouldn't beat myself up too badly over it.

I think you have gotten good advice on ways to handle it for the future. I think it is also good not to sit around and wait for the phone call making yourself available each time he calls. You don't say why Friday nights are better, but if he wants to go out badly enough with you, he might start calling a little sooner. And if you aren't available, hmmmmm, maybe another night would work for that given situation...and if he has to wait awhile...absence makes the heart grow fonder!

[Kristilyn1]

I don't think the friend's divorce is all that relevant: If I invited someone out and they told me, essentially, "unless I get a better offer" I wouldn't like it all. Why defer to his preference for Friday night over your friend's invitation? What on earth is wrong with telling him "I have plans for Friday, are you free Saturday?"

I have to agree here. So now the friend is supposed to wait until when? Friday late afternoon you are going to call and say "sorry, can't go out" or "guess what! I don't have anything better to do! We can go out!" I think you should have done one of two things:

1. Told her you already had plans for Friday. If the guy doesn't ask you out, you pay the penalty and sit home or take a chance and call the friend and say, "my plans were canceled, whatcha doing?" or

2. Told her yes and if the guy called--tell him you have plans on Friday night and offer a couple of alternatives. I mean, what's wrong with Saturday night? Does he reserve that night for someone else?

I don't believe in any sort of game playing on the dating scene (especially if it's someone that you really like) but sitting around waiting for some guy to call sends a bad message to the guy. It either says "I'm such a loser I'm always available for you to ask me out at the last minute" or "you are so important I sit around all week waiting for you to call and ask me out". If a guy is genuinely interested in you and you don't want to come across as unavailable---just make sure you seem enthusiastic when he DOES ask you out---when he asks you out for a night you have plans--say something like "oh, if only you'd called yesterday! I just made plans with a friend for that night. I'd really like to get together though, are you available Saturday night?"

I think it's generally understood that teenagers blow off their friends for dates, but as an adult--keeping your friends in a holding pattern while you wait for HIM to call is uncool.

Kristi

[wallycat]

I tend to agree with much of what was said here as well...
It is obvious your intent was not to hurt her or you wouldn't be posing this question. The fact is it did hurt her and you need to decide how important a friend she is and how much time you'd like to invest in the friendship.

I also agree that you shouldn't sit around waiting for Friday for "the guy" to call. It took me a long time to learn that one. If he's worth having in your life, he will understand you have a life and you aren't at his disposal...if he's the kind of guy who thinks you are, maybe you don't need or want him in yours.

Make your plans to fit your life/schedule/choice and stick with them.
Remember how quickly men can come and go in our lives

[cookieee]

I hate to say this, but can he only see you on Friday night because that is the night his "wife" is busy? Has he given you a good reason why only Friday night?

[Hammster]

I hate to say this, but can he only see you on Friday night because that is the night his "wife" is busy? Has he given you a good reason why only Friday night?

OMG we are on the same wavelength. I thought the same thing when I read her initial post.

Tread carefully Mack.

Having said that, I'm not sure I'd want to be friends with someone who can't take "no" (or "maybe" in this case) for an answer once in a while without getting snide. Regardless of her marital or divorce status. If you have tentative plans, then she will have to understand that she will come second if your plans fall through with "kind of sort of maybe" boyfriend.

But I do see the argument asking the BF (sorry, just using easiest shorthand here) if he can do another day? It may actually test cookieee's theory a bit.

I think ultimately it's your decision and you will have to deal with the consequences. As long as you are comfortable with them that's all that really matters.

Friends and matters of the heart! Whew!! Good luck.

[Curiosity Hears]

Originally Posted by cookieee
"I hate to say this, but can he only see you on Friday night because that is the night his "wife" is busy? Has he given you a good reason why only Friday night?"



Must say when reading mackandme's post I saw this as a big ol' red flag. Why only Friday nights?????

Sorry mackandme, I too think you could have handled your friend with more compassion. If this friendship is important to you, I would suggest sending a small bouquet of flowers with an apology note. Quickly followed up with a telephone call.

Good luck with both your friend and Jason.

[lindrusso]

Having said that, I'm not sure I'd want to be friends with someone who can't take "no" (or "maybe" in this case) for an answer once in a while without getting snide.

I have to agree here.

After answering, I started thinking about what I would think if a very good friend of mine started dating. I would like to think I wouldn't be hurt if my friend wanted to hold a night open for a potential date - I'd like to think I'd be excited for her and understand and suggest a different night.

Now, if it became a regular occurence and my friend never seemed to want to go out with me just in case the BF wanted to go out, then yeah, I'd definitely be hurt. But we're talking one time here and one night - I would think a good friend would be excited for you and be more understanding.

[Meganator]

I agree with the advice given regarding your friend. However, I must say that the simple statement that he seems to prefer going out on Friday night did NOT raise any flag whatsoever to me...yes, there may be other info you are leaving out, and yes, it is possible that he has some secrets, but it is also possible that he goes bowling on Saturday nights, or puts together model airplanes. If it's only been 2 or 3 dates, there are all sorts of things that you don't know about him, 98% of which may be perfectly innocent. Or he may have a wife. But if you like him and are trying to start a relationship, don't go into it with suspicion until he gives you a reason to be suspicious - like refusing to go out on any other night without a plausible explanation.

[MikeC]

We none of us (including mack, I guess) know why Friday is his preferred night out. I am in the same boat: I'm a church music director and I'm up on Sunday mornings (unlike much of the rest of the world!) long before dawn. If I'm "going out," I prefer to go out on Friday nights because I get up so early on Sunday mornings. But I tell people that when trying to make plans.

If you want to keep your Fridays open in case he calls, that's a decision only you can make.

I think, though, (as others have said), it would have been more tactful to say to your friend either that Fridays aren't good nights for you or that you were busy this Friday, and then to have suggested another day to get together. (I realize she was inviting you to a "gathering," but I think the responses still hold.)

What your friend, I'm sure, heard was: "I'll get together with you unless something better comes along." I've had people say similar things to me, and my thought usually is: "When will you let me know? Wednesday? Thursday? Friday morning? Friday afternoon? One hour before we were planning to get together on Friday evening???" My response to them usually is: "Never mind; another time maybe."

[lindrusso]

What your friend, I'm sure, heard was: "I'll get together with you unless something better comes along." I've had people say similar things to me, and my thought usually is: "When will you let me know? Wednesday? Thursday? Friday morning? Friday afternoon? One hour before we were planning to get together on Friday evening???" My response to them usually is: "Never mind; another time maybe."

Leaving people hanging is rude. No matter how you word it, I don't think it should ever be left hanging like that. I would never tell my friend to wait to hear from me, I'd go ahead and make plans for a different night or just pass altogether. It would definitely be rude and inconsiderate to expect someone to wait around to see if your plans fall through or not.

So, it should really be "Sorry, Friday's not good, how about Saturday?" not "Well, I may have plans, I'll call you back later and let you know.".

Of course there are exceptions when it might be acceptable to say "maybe" (such as a child's illness - in this case you may not really know until later if you'll be able to get out), but not in the case of holding a night open for a potential date.

[blazedog]

Everything else is irrelevant except that you essentially told a person that I will deign to see you as a second choice -- LOSER.

Sorry but divorce, man, starting to date etc. is all irrelevant to your having been rude.

If you want to hold your Friday open in the hope or expectation that you will see or do something -- man, friend, opera, dog races -- that's fine. However, it is not acceptable to tell another human being that you will see them if the better option fails to come to fruition.

A simple I am so sorry but I can't make it that night -- what about x night is what is the sole acceptable response.

My question is why you even think this wouldn't be hurtful to another human being. Just flip it around and ask yourself how you would feel if you tried to book a get together with someone and they told you they preferred to see someone else but would let you know.

And good friends make it a point of NOT making their friends take a second class position when a man/woman/potential SO happens to come across the horizon because there is a strong likelihood that you will want those bonds of friendship -- or at the very least not making it so blatant that their friends are now second class.

[Casey1230]

When I did something like this YEARS AGO, my best friend called me a 'fair-weather friend' and really made me think about what I was doing...... I never did it again... 'first come, first served'.

[Kristilyn1]

I just wanted to clarify something on my earlier post. I don't think there is anything at all wrong in wanting to hold a night open for a "possible" date. I've done it myself----what was wrong was to leave the friend dangling. To me you simply say you have plans that night and if he doesn't call--the price you pay is a night home with no plans. I'd then spend that evening wondering why the heck I would wait around for some guy who "might" call, and resolve never to do it again.

I wouldn't beat myself up about it, but I'd definitely offer the friend a simple, heartfelt apology, I think she deserves it.

Kristi

[BarbaraL]

I agree with the majority that the mistake was to let your friend know that you were available only if your BF (for lack of a better term) didn't come through. It would have been better to say that you had tentative plans with BF, and you'd see if you could reschedule with BF and attend her gathering (if you wanted to attend), and get back to her promptly (giving her adequate notice).

It would be nice if your friend was happy for you and your new potential relationship. However, she may be hurting from her divorce and feeling like second-best with her friends would hurt even more.

[mackandme]

wow, lots of great advice. i agree with everyone that i handled this wrong.

the fact of the matter is, i didn't want to go to this big get-together she's having anyway, and i should have just come out and said that, regardless of whether or not i may, or may not, have a date. i guess i was kind of using him as an excuse, and obviously that backfired.

and for those of you who have decided he's married, no, he's not. i think he does family stuff saturday nights, and gets up early to go to church on sundays. he has a big family that he's very close to. i've known him since january and been to his house. no wife. we actually have gone out on a saturday before. he works days and some weekends, i work nights and some weekends, so it's not always that easy to get together.

guess i'm just really rusty on all this dating stuff. and i think this:

I think it is also good not to sit around and wait for the phone call making yourself available each time he calls. You don't say why Friday nights are better, but if he wants to go out badly enough with you, he might start calling a little sooner. And if you aren't available, hmmmmm, maybe another night would work for that given situation...and if he has to wait awhile...absence makes the heart grow fonder!

is really good advice. thanks.