Illegal? what should I do about this if anything..

Valerie226 · #1 08-13-2009, 02:58 PM

My doctors office ( about a 10 doctor group) uses one of those older credit card transfer devices. I noticed that my full cc number is printed on the form. I thought it was illegal to print anything but the last 4 digits ( in the US anyway) for several years now. I can't believe they could have overlooked this.

Should I mention something to them? I don't understand how a business could have overlooked this. I really like the people in this office but this is troubling. what would you do?

SusanL · #2 08-13-2009, 03:06 PM

For your own personal security, I would ask them about it. I never thought of it, but I think that you are correct. They need to update their system. I will try to do a google search on this subject.

Valerie226 · #3 08-13-2009, 03:11 PM

I tried and didn't find anything. I'm drawing a blank on what to search for.

I know old cc receipts shoped the complete number but it seems to me 5-7 years ago the changeover occurred. I recall visiting in canada and being surprised that my full number was on receipts since then.

cocoa'smom · #4 08-13-2009, 03:16 PM

I just had my watch repaired at an old-fashioned watch shop and their credit card machine did the same thing. The clerk took a marker and marked through all but the last 4 digits on both my copy and his. I didn't really think much about it.

Gilgamesh37 · #5 08-13-2009, 03:18 PM

Huh--I didn't think it was mandated, but you're right, it's federal law. That said, I frequent several businesses here where your entire CC number prints on the receipt--and DH says it's that way at about half the golf courses he plays (not sure why golf courses are just high offenders, but whatever).

Valerie226 · #6 08-13-2009, 03:18 PM

answered my own question... it's been illegal to show more than the last 5 digits and the expiration date since dec 06. it's the Fair and Accurate Credit Transaction Act. It is of course to help prevent identity theft.

SusanL · #7 08-13-2009, 03:28 PM

Thanks Val, that is important for all of us to know. I bing'd and found this site
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23599888/

Valerie226 · #8 08-13-2009, 03:31 PM

Obviously I have to tell them. It's my number at risk of getting stolen from medical records, a lucrative place for thieves to look.

Like I said, I like this office. what's a tactful way to do this? The front office people are nice but probably not going to do anything. Try to reach the office manager?

Valerie226 · #9 08-13-2009, 03:41 PM

susan, thanks for that. the herb weisbaum article says the "law does not apply to hand written or imprinted card receipts." this one is an imprinted one I think. it's one of those older ones mechanical ones that presses the credit card against the form. not a swiper. I guess it's not illegal, just unwise.

maybe I'll just pay with a check from now on.

Shugness · #10 08-13-2009, 03:43 PM

Definitely call the office manager directly, just be nice and don't make a big deal out of it (even though it is) - make it out more like you're doing them a favor and of course act like it's something they've just overlooked.

SusanL · #11 08-13-2009, 03:43 PM

Yes, you are correct, and I think that is a wise decision. You might still want to ask them about it, letting them know that you pay by check now. ?

Valerie226 · #12 08-13-2009, 03:47 PM

I'll find a way to mention it nicely.... there are so many identity theft problems. maybe newer swiper devices are too expensive for smaller businesses to afford unless they do a big percentage of their business with credit cards.

funniegrrl · #13 08-13-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valerie226

I'll find a way to mention it nicely.... there are so many identity theft problems. maybe newer swiper devices are too expensive for smaller businesses to afford unless they do a big percentage of their business with credit cards.

Yes those things, and the services required to run them, aren't cheap. And, a smart retailer will always have a mechanical imprint device on hand as a backup when -- and it's always when, not if -- the electronic swiper or system goes down.

Don't be harsh on a small retailer who uses the mechanical version only. I have the same worries about ID theft and would be wary, and it's certainly worth it to bring up the issue in a nice way. The electronic systems have their own risks, such as skimming devices. Nothing prevents an employee from simply writing down your card number, either, in a place like a restaurant where you relinquish your card to the waiter. Also, be aware that accepting credit and debit cards costs the retailer, and the electronic systems add to that cost. It's hard for them to be competitive in the first place -- I'd hope that if they can't change, that you'll continue to patronize them and pay another way.

Valerie226 · #14 08-13-2009, 05:13 PM

the doctor is wonderful .. he did a surgical procedure on me that I wasn't thrilled with needing but he was very patient and put up with my denial graciously.
I absolutely would never give them any kind of grief but when I first started this thread I thought it was illegal. I haven't gotten my full card # on anything but hand written receipts in years. I still look to be sure. I'll just write a check and maybe mention in passing that I am uncomfortable with my credit card number printed fully. I can't be the only one who noticed.
Medical records have everything on them except mother's maiden and drivers license #, and those records pass thru so many hands.

pharmarepgirl · #15 08-13-2009, 05:45 PM

Not sure if this will help you or not but I was just in a dr office where the office mgr was telling me all the staff will be required to attend a mandated ( by HIPPA) training class on identity theft in the medical office setting. I know this was mostly based on theft of medical information such as medical insurance. I did find this link from HIPPA:http://www.med.miami.edu/hipaa/public/x358.xml

The OM was telling me that there were stricter guidelines coming about handling SSN's and credit card info as well. Not sure if this will help you though.

Shugness · #16 08-13-2009, 05:51 PM

As someone else mentioned the doctor has to percentage of that transaction to the credit card company, so you'd be doing yourself and him a favor by paying by check.

Valerie226 · #17 08-13-2009, 07:09 PM

DH is an MD... I know most office people are careful and ethical but there are still bad apples to protect yourself from if possible. there is quite a chain of people involved from the office, hospital, and insurance. I don't plan on making it easy for that one corrupt person out there. Checks from now on.

riffle&cook · #18 08-13-2009, 08:21 PM

I just wanted to point out that your checks have your full bank account number on them, so it isn't a defense against fraud at all to pay by check. Checks can easily be created by anyone with stock from office supply stores. A thief can easliy get YOUR money out of your checking account. Please take a minute to read the terms and conditions on your credit card statement, it explains your fraud liability and might help settle your concerns about paying by CC.

Added - Your fraud liability when just your credit card # is involved is $0, and maximum liability if your actual card is stolen is $50.00 per credit card.

Valerie226 · #19 08-14-2009, 07:45 AM

Not careless with checks either but a lot more damage could happen fast with a major credit card number.

Robyn1007 · #20 08-14-2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valerie226

Not careless with checks either but a lot more damage could happen fast with a major credit card number.

I disagree with this. As mentioned, your credit card has fraud protections which your checking account may not. Additionally typical security questions include information available in your medical files like your social security number. Either way, I'd make the request to the office in a friendly manner but continue to use my credit card rather than my bank account.

riffle&cook · #21 08-14-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valerie226

Not careless with checks either but a lot more damage could happen fast with a major credit card number.

Any damage that can happen with a major credit card is not going to be your liability.
My concern with the checks is that fraudulently created checks can and will easily clear your account, which can in your valid checks bouncing once funds (and overdraft protection) are depleted.

SusanL · #22 08-14-2009, 09:19 AM

Oh, Riffle and Robyn, good point checks vs. credit cards. Another reason for me to be grateful for this board!

Ann1965 · #23 08-14-2009, 10:43 AM

I know here in South Carolina we have to comply with the new rules as of this past April or else face a charge every month for being noncompliant. Our cc machine had to be updated to comply and not show the entire cc number. This was done through our cc processor, I'm surprised they haven't been contacted by the processor.

Shugness · #24 08-14-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riffle&cook

Any damage that can happen with a major credit card is not going to be your liability.
My concern with the checks is that fraudulently created checks can and will easily clear your account, which can in your valid checks bouncing once funds (and overdraft protection) are depleted.

Good point - it'd be better for them to take money you owe than money you have. If worst came to worst you can default on the credit card, but if they wipe out your checking account your out of that money. If that makes any sense.

At any rate, pay with cash

Our Network of Sites