What are the odds of me killing anyone w/ undercooked fish?

[ljt2r]

Am currently broiling cod--was frozen--that was in marinade w/ soy sauce. It's color therefore means little to me. So does the word "broil" for that matter--broil at what shelf? High or low? (I have both) Don't want to overcook in paranoia.

I am totally inexperienced with fish.....

[sneezles]

So your fillets are out of the package and ready for the broiler but still frozen?

[sneezles]

Preheat the broiler, place the fillets on the pan and place the pan 5-6 inches from the broiler. Broil 9 minutes, turn, broil 10-11 minutes more.

[ljt2r]

No they were thawed. And terrible I am sad to report (in reference to that other thread). But I don't think they were packaged well, lesson learned. No what I more meant was is fish more like chicken where you do not undercook ever or is it more like pork where you can or beef where you really can?.....

[lindrusso]

Originally Posted by ljt2r

No what I more meant was is fish more like chicken where you do not undercook ever or is it more like pork where you can or beef where you really can?.....

Well, sushi is about as undercooked as you can get.

But seriously I think fish can be pretty rare and be fine. Seared tuna, after all, is pretty much raw in the center. Fully cooking tuna pretty much ruins it. Salmon is often served the same way - fairly rare in the center - though you can fully cook salmon and it will still be very good.

[ljt2r]

Originally Posted by lindrusso

Well, sushi is about as undercooked as you can get.

But seriously I think fish can be pretty rare and be fine. Seared tuna, after all, is pretty much raw in the center. Fully cooking tuna pretty much ruins it. Salmon is often served the same way - fairly rare in the center - though you can fully cook salmon and it will still be very good.

Now call me crazy, but I always thought you need to by sushi grade tuna to be sure it would be safe if served that rare? Was I wrong?

[applecrisp]

I don't cook seafood at home that often ---- many recipes will mention to cook until it flakes (or some verbage like that). At times I have hacked away (ok slight exaggeration) at the poor o' piece of fish to see if its "sufficiently" flaking (wish for something more definitive that flaking for fish novices like me). I tend to go the seafood route at home and make shrimp.

Sorry to read that the fish was a bust.

[lindrusso]

Originally Posted by ljt2r

Now call me crazy, but I always thought you need to by sushi grade tuna to be sure it would be safe if served that rare? Was I wrong?

You're probably right - I always thought it was about quality and taste but safety would make sense too.

But there is also ceviche in which the seafood is "cooked" by the citrus but not in any way that would render it "safe" to eat. I never hear about having to use a certain grade of seafood in order to make it.

Obviously cooking things to a certain temp is considered safer but there are plenty of dishes that call for raw or undercooked foods that many people eat without any problem - Caesar dressing, seared fish, mousses, steak tartar, etc.

[ljt2r]

Originally Posted by lindrusso

You're probably right - I always thought it was about quality and taste but safety would make sense too.

But there is also ceviche in which the seafood is "cooked" by the citrus but not in any way that would render it "safe" to eat. I never hear about having to use a certain grade of seafood in order to make it.

Obviously cooking things to a certain temp is considered safer but there are plenty of dishes that call for raw or undercooked foods that many people eat without any problem - Caesar dressing, seared fish, mousses, steak tartar, etc.

Call me naive but I always thought the lime juice did kill bacteria.

Anyway, your point certainly stands--with one point I would make. Beef does not have the equivalent of "sushi grade"--it just has common sense about where you get it and how you store it. I guess I thought BECAUSE fish has sushi grade that meant you should not undercook non-sushi grade even if it is from, say, Jungle Jim's. Mind you I am NOT one of those food safety at all costs people and in general I hear you. I just was not sure about fish. I know nothing about fish. Totally out of my comfort zone....

[sneezles]

Originally Posted by ljt2r

Call me naive but I always thought the lime juice did kill bacteria.

While lime juice "cooks" the fish it does not kill bacteria.

[sneezles]

Yet another reason tilapia should be banned from US waters:

Bacteria and ceviche

[blazedog]

I always undercook fish because I like it on the rare side -- and ahi tuna I like almost raw.

Fish is not like chicken in terms of being a hot bed of salmonella and e-coli.

I think all of us are much more likely to get food poisoning from restaurants or prepared food. I have never gotten sick from anything I've prepared and I push the envelope in terms of thawing on the counter -- eating food a few days after the recipe says it will last.

[ljt2r]

Originally Posted by blazedog

I always undercook fish because I like it on the rare side -- and ahi tuna I like almost raw.

Fish is not like chicken in terms of being a hot bed of salmonella and e-coli.

I think all of us are much more likely to get food poisoning from restaurants or prepared food. I have never gotten sick from anything I've prepared and I push the envelope in terms of thawing on the counter -- eating food a few days after the recipe says it will last.

OK thanks that is helpful.

[Jessnc]

I was taught that certain fish (don't remember which kinds) are prone to worms and you want to make sure the fish is fully cooked for that reason. Tuna and salmon are two fish that I feel comfortable eating not fully cooked.

ETA: I just read the link that Sneezles posted. By worms I meant parasites. Icky either way you put it.

[Canice]

Originally Posted by blazedog

I always undercook fish because I like it on the rare side -- and ahi tuna I like almost raw.

Fish is not like chicken in terms of being a hot bed of salmonella and e-coli.

I think all of us are much more likely to get food poisoning from restaurants or prepared food. I have never gotten sick from anything I've prepared and I push the envelope in terms of thawing on the counter -- eating food a few days after the recipe says it will last.

That pretty much echoes my philosophy and experience, and I've also read repeatedly that eggs, for example, are much more likely to be "problematic" in a restaurant than at home.

I love sushi/sashimi and raw oysters and a number of other raw items that are supposed to be a prescription for a night in the ER. So far, so good. The ONE time I got seriously, insanely sick from seafood (as in, was finally CRYING at 3AM because I couldn't stand it) was from a well-done grilled piece of (BLEAH!) shark.
Gross. I'd had it once as a teenager and hated it, and later let then-DBF grill steaks of it for dinner. Diiiiizzzzgusssting. Doesn't your gut just tell you that that's not food??

[ncredbird]

Believe me when I say that if you get food poisoning there are worse things than the thought of dying from it. That would be the merciful conclusion.
That being said, and having had food poisoning more than once, the agitant food was never prepared at home but has always been purchased at a restaurant. Like others I have been guilty of pushing the limits with home prepared food so when food poisoning resulted from purchased products it makes me cringe to think of the liberties that must be taken on a regular basis by the food preparation industry.

[dlaboriel]

Call me chicken, but undercooked fish is not for me

[newtricks]

Originally Posted by Jessnc

I was taught that certain fish (don't remember which kinds) are prone to worms and you want to make sure the fish is fully cooked for that reason. Tuna and salmon are two fish that I feel comfortable eating not fully cooked.

ETA: I just read the link that Sneezles posted. By worms I meant parasites. Icky either way you put it.

Yeah, parasites are the thing that stop me. I was researching how to cold smoke a salmon and it's important to freeze the salmon before you cure it because the two days in salt and the hours of smoking don't kill parasites.

To this day I can't eat monkfish because of an incident at a restaurant where I worked. A waiter was putting a plate on a table and saw a worm coming out of a piece of monkfish. This was a very good restaurant too.

And dh won't eat halibut because a restaurant chef told him it's the worst for parasites. (I'm not sure I believe him. Because I don't want to!)

[ljt2r]

Originally Posted by newtricks

Yeah, parasites are the thing that stop me. I was researching how to cold smoke a salmon and it's important to freeze the salmon before you cure it because the two days in salt and the hours of smoking don't kill parasites.

To this day I can't eat monkfish because of an incident at a restaurant where I worked. A waiter was putting a plate on a table and saw a worm coming out of a piece of monkfish. This was a very good restaurant too.

And dh won't eat halibut because a restaurant chef told him it's the worst for parasites. (I'm not sure I believe him. Because I don't want to!)

Does that mean if you only buy frozen fish (I just brought home quite the haul from Costco bc I am an eternal optimist AND bc my frozen tilapia, which was frozen in a much more respectable manner than the cod, was pretty good the other night) parasites are not a concern?

[blazedog]

Originally Posted by ljt2r

Does that mean if you only buy frozen fish (I just brought home quite the haul from Costco bc I am an eternal optimist AND bc my frozen tilapia, which was frozen in a much more respectable manner than the cod, was pretty good the other night) parasites are not a concern?

Frozen fish would indeed be completely free of parasites.

I realize that people justify reckless behavior with all kinds of justifications since not every reckless act is punished -- i.e. not all smokers die of lung cancer and not everyone who drives a motorcycle without a helmet ends up with a shattered skull.

I eat sushi very frequently and have never wound up with a parasite. I don't eat raw fish at home but I never worry about the state of doneness in terms of my fish and have never suffered a bout of gastrointestinal distress.

I eat raw cookie dough as well

[newtricks]

Originally Posted by ljt2r

Does that mean if you only buy frozen fish (I just brought home quite the haul from Costco bc I am an eternal optimist AND bc my frozen tilapia, which was frozen in a much more respectable manner than the cod, was pretty good the other night) parasites are not a concern?

Not a food safety expert but I think so . Also, your original question was about undercooked fish. Cooking kills them too.

It's ironic that we think "fresh, never frozen" is better when in some cases it's not. e.g. I always buy my shrimp frozen so I can thaw it myself and limit the time it's just sitting around.

[newtricks]

Originally Posted by blazedog

Frozen fish would indeed be completely free of parasites.

well, they're still there. They're just dead.

I eat raw cookie dough too. And thaw on the counter, etc. I agree with you, a little common sense goes a long way but we don't need to get crazy.

[ljt2r]

Mmmmmmmm raw cookie dough.

Topic for a different thread but I find it an interesting problem what I am willing to risk for myself versus what I allow my kids to do. Which is why I was worrying about undercooked fish in the first place.

[blazedog]

Originally Posted by newtricks

well, they're still there. They're just dead.

You're right of course. Our environment is filled with all kinds of creepie crawlies -- the issue is whether they affect us -- like how many insect legs are permitted in a portion of processed foods.

[blazedog]

Originally Posted by ljt2r

Mmmmmmmm raw cookie dough.

Topic for a different thread but I find it an interesting problem what I am willing to risk for myself versus what I allow my kids to do. Which is why I was worrying about undercooked fish in the first place.

I think that most kids ingest more crap in the normal course of going about their day than would be presented in "normal" food -- even "rare" fish.

There have been some theories postulating that the increased rate of allergies is linked to "cleaner" environments.

One of the reasons polio (aka infantile paralysis) began to become a much more serious disease in the 20th century was because sanitation had decreased exposure to the virus among the very young -- when it was more likely to be a fairly minor disease.