Question about Shiva

[cherylopal]

A coworker/friend's father passed away last week and I recieved this email from her (it was sent to everyone at work). I teach at a small school near where she lives- its easy to stay late and go. I do consider her a friend and would like to go.

I don't know anything about Shiva- please help.

When should I go? At 8? Should I bring food? How long should I stay?? What should I do??

The Rabbi just called and said that the Shiva service at our house on Wednesday evening won't begin until 8:00 PM

[blazedog]

Shiva is "traditionally" the seven days of mourning when the family is at home and people come. Some Jews don't sit shiva for the full period. In general the family would be receiving friends and family during "normal" hours throughout the period -- i.e. not at specific time. Of course depending on the relationship people do call to make sure that the time for the visit is convenient.

A service is often conducted by a rabbi and this is specifically what is being referred to. If you plan to attend the service you would get there before. I think the email saying it won't start UNTIL 8, is to help people who might otherwise really have to struggle to get to the home in time since.

My experience is that bringing food is generally done and is appropriate - for the family and also because food is always offered to people stopping by during Shiva (at least in my experience).

[syzygy]

The Shiva service, specifically, include the mourners' prayers. Ten (traditionally male) Jewish adults (a minyon) are needed for the service to take place. Since you are neither male nor Jewish, you shouldn't feel any special obligation to attend at that specific time, since you wouldn't be saying the prayers (done in Hebrew). But you should plan to arrive before then so you won't interrupt the service. You needn't stay long, 20 - 30 minutes is fine if that's all you want to do, so you could even plan to stop by earlier and leave before the service starts.

As Blaze says, gifts of food are most appropriate when visiting during the Shiva period -- do not bring flowers.

Here's some info from wiki that might be helpful for you.

[cherylopal]

Thanks for the info- are there any foods that should be brought? I know about pork and mixing meat and dairy- I was thinking of some pumpkin muffins.

[blazedog]

Baked goods are fine.

[testkitchen45]

Originally Posted by blazedog

Baked goods are fine.

Blaze, I'm curious about something. I don't mean for this to be a thread hijack, as the OP has similar questions about the food choices. If a family keeps kosher, and you want to bring them a meal for some reason or another, how do you do that? I know you wouldn't mix meat & dairy, for example, in the recipe, but a non-kosher kitchen has regularly mixed meat & dairy (etc) in its cookware, refrigerator, utensils, and so on (I thought that a kosher kitchen had 2 of everything so as to avoid mixing). Can a kosher family accept food prepared in a non-kosher kitchen, even if the actual recipe is OK? And can they accept food prepared on their own Sabbath, which for me would just be cooking on a Saturday? This would apply to the baked goods as well, b/c the ingredients & utensils would not have been used according to kosher restrictions b4 they were used for the baked goods. Thx.

[blazedog]

Originally Posted by testkitchen45

Blaze, I'm curious about something. I don't mean for this to be a thread hijack, as the OP has similar questions about the food choices. If a family keeps kosher, and you want to bring them a meal for some reason or another, how do you do that? I know you wouldn't mix meat & dairy, for example, in the recipe, but a non-kosher kitchen has regularly mixed meat & dairy (etc) in its cookware, refrigerator, utensils, and so on (I thought that a kosher kitchen had 2 of everything so as to avoid mixing). Can a kosher family accept food prepared in a non-kosher kitchen, even if the actual recipe is OK? And can they accept food prepared on their own Sabbath, which for me would just be cooking on a Saturday? This would apply to the baked goods as well, b/c the ingredients & utensils would not have been used according to kosher restrictions b4 they were used for the baked goods. Thx.

This really goes to how orthodox a Jew is.


My grandmother was observant in her own home but would eat "kosher" foods in non-kosher places like her daughters' homes, when visiting or in restaurants. She would bring kosher meat if she was paying an extended visit or would eat fish but would eat on the non-kosher plates etc.

Even the most ultra-Orthodox Jews will eat food prepared on Saturday. There is even the traditional Shabbos Goy who will do things that an observant Jew can't do. Traditionally, women would bring a dish like cholent to the village baker where it would cook overnight in the oven. Many stoves for observant people will have the ability to do this through "Sabbath" modes just as Jewish hospitals will have elevators stop at every floor since it is the act of pushing the button or turning on the electricity that is forbidden.

So it's a really difficult question to answer -- One would never bring food prepared in one's home to a really Orthodox family -- even baked goods but one would buy at a "kosher" bakery. Ultra-Orthodox wouldn't even be happy with food prepared in a "conservative" kosher home.

Most observant Jews who aren't ultra-Orthodox would be fine with baked goods and wouldn't wonder whether the pan had ever touched "ham".

ETA -- NOt sure if I've answered your question because there are so degrees of "kosher-ness". If you have eaten with this person at a restaurant, you can be pretty sure that they would be fine with food you prepared in your home -- as long as there were no obvious non-kosher elements like ham with cream sauce. However, even your "relaxed" friend might have more observant relatives depending on what the occasion was. I think if you are unsure, you should ask -- unless it's some kind of surprise or you are afraid of getting the standard response -- don't bring anything.

[testkitchen45]

Thanks, Blaze. Lots of good info!

[blazedog]

Originally Posted by testkitchen45

Thanks, Blaze. Lots of good info!

ETA - There are also many foods which are neutral. Baked goods with oil would be neutral -- baked goods with butter would be "dairy". So generally baking pans wouldn't be "tainted" since they are either dairy or neutral unless one is using them for meat dishes (and fish is neutral).

Again, many fairly observant Jews don't scratch the surface that much because it so severely circumscribes one's ability to maneuver in the world -- so they are more like my grandmother was.

[syzygy]

Originally Posted by blazedog

Again, many fairly observant Jews don't scratch the surface that much because it so severely circumscribes one's ability to maneuver in the world -- so they are more like my grandmother was.

On the other hand, many observant Jews do. Some of my relatives would happily visit other relatives' homes that were not as observant, but the only thing they would eat while visiting was fresh fruit served on a paper plate or napkin.

There are stores and bakeries that sell kosher goods, if you really want to bring a meal to a kosher home. But even if you would go that route, you then must make sure that the food is sealed with the original packaging and has a visible "hescher", or symbol, denoting oversight by a rabbinic organization.

If the family in question keeps a kosher home, it's best to err on the side of caution and not bring food that you, yourself, have prepared.

[cherylopal]

I went last night- it was a comforting service I think. There was one singing part that I thought was just beautiful. I don't speak or understand Hebrew so I don't know what was said. It was the part that was sung just before my friend spoke for a few minutes about her dad. Are these services pretty much the same?

[cherylopal]

Originally Posted by cherylopal

There was one singing part that I thought was just beautiful. I don't speak or understand Hebrew so I don't know what was said.

My director is Jewish and we figured out the song

oseh shalom

[tbb113]

Cheryl - here is the translation for Oseh Shalom

May the One who causes peace to reign in the high heavens let peace descend on us, on all Israel, and all the world